Does this change your opinion of Kawhi?

[Stakesarehigh]

Chemistry was shot once the team found out Lou went to Magic City...and didn't bring any wings back for them. So selfish.

Or at least bring back a stripper amirite @Danuel House

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Aa a player ? No

As a decision maker ? Yes

Guy literally went to the only team ( out of the 3 he considered ) where adding him still didn't make his team a prohibitive favorite to win their conference

If he was looking to win titles the Clips should've been a distant 3rd to the Lakers and Raptors

I think the city's response to him weirded him out honestly. He's more low key than hero worship that Toronto was going for.

As to LA vs LA. If you put Kawhi where AD is and subtract AD I'd probably rather have the Clips roster. Even with LeBron. I thought we did the math on AD And Kawhi and it wasn't possible

 

[trojanfan12]

I think the city's response to him weirded him out honestly. He's more low key than hero worship that Toronto was going for.

As to LA vs LA. If you put Kawhi where AD is and subtract AD I'd probably rather have the Clips roster. Even with LeBron. I thought we did the math on AD And Kawhi and it wasn't possible

Not possible as far as salary cap?

They were pursuing Kawhi after they already had AD. So, the cap space was there. They were just going to have less to fill the rest of the rostewr and would be about as deep into the luxury tax as possible.

The LA vs LA issue was that he didn't want to do the 3 stars thing. He would have if the Clips didn't get PG, but they did.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Not possible as far as salary cap?

They were pursuing Kawhi after they already had AD. So, the cap space was there. They were just going to have less to fill the rest of the rostewr and would be about as deep into the luxury tax as possible.

Ah yes maybe that was it. Yea ok I can buy that

 

[ATC]

I haven't turned on any of the circus media for like First Take or whatever that show Skip Bayless is on, but I wanted to get a gauge around here.

Has your view of Kawhi Leonard as a premier talent in this league been altered due to this loss? I mean realistically blowing a 3-1 lead is not new obviously, but does his overall performance in this series and in game 7 in particular alter his standing in the league?

I mean universally he's considered a top 5 player. His credentials to date are impeccable. This is probably on paper is one of, if not the most talented team he's ever had.

Thoughts?

No, but this does convince me that LeBron is still the best player in the game, and that Paul George is overrated as a player as is Doc Rivers as a coach. Los Angeles is and will always be a Lakers town, as will Inglewood even after the Floppers move there in their shiny new building.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

No, but this does convince me that LeBron is still the best player in the game, and that Paul George is overrated as a player as is Doc Rivers as a coach. Los Angeles is and will always be a Lakers town, as will Inglewood even after the Floppers move there in their shiny new building.

I still think you can't really put this one on PG.

 

[trojanfan12]

Ah yes maybe that was it. Yea ok I can buy that

I forget exactly how it all worked out, but basically they had to put some of the FA's they signed "on hold" because if they signed anyone before they signed Kawhi, they wouldn't have had the cap space to sign Kawhi.

It's why they had to scramble to fill the roster when Kawhi chose the Clippers. Some of the guys they originally wanted to sign, didn't want to wait.

 

[ATC]

Not possible as far as salary cap?

They were pursuing Kawhi after they already had AD. So, the cap space was there. They were just going to have less to fill the rest of the rostewr and would be about as deep into the luxury tax as possible.

The LA vs LA issue was that he didn't want to do the 3 stars thing. He would have if the Clips didn't get PG, but they did.

He should’ve gone with the 3 star option. It’s obvious that Paul “hit the backboard” George with his health issues and playoff choking issues is not the answer. He should’ve stayed in Toronto.

 

[trojanfan12]

I still think you can't really put this one on PG.

He deserves his share. But Kawhi was the superstar, so it's mostly on him.

It's like the Lakers situation. If the Lakers don't win the title, some of the blame will be on AD, but most of it will be on Lebron.

 

[trojanfan12]

He should’ve gone with the 3 star option. It’s obvious that Paul “hit the backboard” George with his health issues and playoff choking issues is not the answer. He should’ve stayed in Toronto.

Agree.

When he won a title in Toronto, I thought he would/should stay there to defend it, even if only on a 1 year deal. In fact, when we were all predicting what he'd do, I think was my prediction.

As for choosing the Clippers over the Lakers...I understood it from a competition point of view. Why join Lebron and AD when you can beat them?

But I didn't understand it from a "Kawhi's personality" point of view. Someone as quiet as he is and who had as much success as he did when he was with 2 stars in San Antonio would seemed to have been better off joining the Lakers.

 

[ATC]

I still think you can't really put this one on PG.

There’s plenty of room for blame. Kawhi and Paul George didn’t show up for Game 7. PG was inconsistent through the playoff games he suited up for. His Game 7 was an unmitigated disaster. Lou Will didn’t show up and he hurt the club when he left the bubble. And Doc Rivers isn’t the great coach everyone thinks he is. He’s won one championship 13 seasons ago. He hasn’t been to The Finals in 12 seasons in spite of having some talented Clippers teams. They’ve never gotten out of the second round in franchise history. You can’t blame Doc for all of those 50 years of futility, but you can hold him accountable for the 2015 Houston choke, this year’s Denver choke and for all of the other years his talented Clippers didn’t produce while under his tutelage. All in all, in his age 30 season PG’s overall impact was mixed at best. Given that he’s not getting younger, I don’t think he’s the answer for the Floppers. I would look to move him if possible.

 

[ATC]

He deserves his share. But Kawhi was the superstar, so it's mostly on him.

It's like the Lakers situation. If the Lakers don't win the title, some of the blame will be on AD, but most of it will be on Lebron.

I have to disagree with you. Given that the Clippers were picked by most to win it all this year, the Lakers have met their expectations. They were supposed to meet the Clippers in the WCF—they made it—with the Clippers (who didn’t make it) winning the whole thing.

 

[RobBase]

If you have to ask that question you're not a fan.

Thanks for your opinion?

 

[Stakesarehigh]

He deserves his share. But Kawhi was the superstar, so it's mostly on him.

It's like the Lakers situation. If the Lakers don't win the title, some of the blame will be on AD, but most of it will be on Lebron.

Like I said other

There’s plenty of room for blame. Kawhi and Paul George didn’t show up for Game 7. PG was inconsistent through the playoff games he suited up for. His Game 7 was an unmitigated disaster. Lou Will didn’t show up and he hurt the club when he left the bubble. And Doc Rivers isn’t the great coach everyone thinks he is. He’s won one championship 13 seasons ago. He hasn’t been to The Finals in 12 seasons in spite of having some talented Clippers teams. They’ve never gotten out of the second round in franchise history. You can’t blame Doc for all of those 50 years of futility, but you can hold him accountable for the 2015 Houston choke, this year’s Denver choke and for all of the other years his talented Clippers didn’t produce while under his tutelage. All in all, in his age 30 season PG’s overall impact was mixed at best. Given that he’s not getting younger, I don’t think he’s the answer for the Floppers. I would look to move him if possible.

Agreed on Doc

Also agree game 7 PG was not good at all

 

[raptorlife4]

The Raptors did as much for him as he did for them.
It was a perfect fit . If he wanted multiple titles for his legacy, staying in Toronto was his best move.

2021 Kawhi and Giannis in Toronto. Book it

 

[Wamu]

Thanks for your opinion?

View attachment 253494

It's funny when people that aren't NBA fans go outta their way to leave a comment in an NBA thread. Take your bitching about the league to a different thread.

 

[trojanfan12]

I have to disagree with you. Given that the Clippers were picked by most to win it all this year, the Lakers have met their expectations. They were supposed to meet the Clippers in the WCF—they made it—with the Clippers (who didn’t make it) winning the whole thing.

Actually, Vegas had the Lakers as the title favorite. But yeah, the vast majority of the tv folks, sportswriters, etc. had the Clippers beating the Lakers in the WCF and winning the title.

Prior to that, if the Lkaers had lost in the 1st or 2nd round, the lions share of that blame would have fallen on Lebron.

But now that the Clippers are gone, the title expectations are on Lebron and the Lakers.

 

[ATC]

Agree.

When he won a title in Toronto, I thought he would/should stay there to defend it, even if only on a 1 year deal. In fact, when we were all predicting what he'd do, I think was my prediction.

As for choosing the Clippers over the Lakers...I understood it from a competition point of view. Why join Lebron and AD when you can beat them?

But I didn't understand it from a "Kawhi's personality" point of view. Someone as quiet as he is and who had as much success as he did when he was with 2 stars in San Antonio would seemed to have been better off joining the Lakers.

I agree. He would’ve been better off with the Lakers with a caveat that I’ll explain later. Until this year, Kawhi was never the top dog on his teams, especially the championship teams. When he won in San Antonio it was still Tim Duncan’s and Tony Parker’s team. In Toronto, he was the best player, but Kyle Lowry was/is the heart and soul and the leader of that team. He would’ve thrived in LA with LeBron and AD, as he would not have carried the burden of being the main man. All he would’ve had to do is produce in the same style that he’s always produced while unencumbered with the target over his head that has defined LeBron’s career. And I say that with the caveat assuming that his load management treatment wasn’t an issue with LeBron, AD and the rest of the team. For all we know the LM treatment he got was a bigger issue for the Clips than we’ve been led to believe. LM in and of itself is a potential chemistry killler on a team.

 

[trojanfan12]

The Raptors did as much for him as he did for them.
It was a perfect fit . If he wanted multiple titles for his legacy, staying in Toronto was his best move.

2021 Kawhi and Giannis in Toronto. Book it

Agree with Toronto seeming to be a perfect fit.

Not sure about multiple titles. Without that miracle shot vs. Philly, they aren't in the finals and minus the Warriors injuries, they wouldn't have the one they got.

 

[ATC]

Honestly what happened to the Clippers in terms of chemistry is a real issue. That's a downfall for a lot of teams. It puts a different perspective of just how tough it must have been for the Warriors to integrate KD into their team. Even though they were able to manage it for three years, KD still wanted out afterwards because he wasn't happy with his touches. But the organization was able to contain it to a minimum so we never heard about any of this until after he was gone.

I think a similar path will need to happen for the Clippers. They need someone to stabilize the culture. Spurs had one built in prior to Kawhi and same with the Raptors. Kawhi could just plug and play. But that won't be the case with the Clippers going forward. Someone's gotta step into that role.

I totally agree.