MJ Kobe Lebron?

[TrustMeIamRight]

Maybe Krause thought it was easier than it might be after seeing a team he built win 55 games without MJ?

You get all Krause had were words, right? say it as much as you want that he SAID they would not come back but the fact is they were later asked to come back and declined.

Not really debatable, unless you think jackson lied.

You can ask, once it is all said and done, but when the coach and the players put up with the constant questions from the media for the entire year and Krause saying it wouldn't matter if he went 82-0 -- it was his last year, it wasn't worth it to them. To tell you how hostile the relationship was with Jackson and his agent -- his agent was banned by Krause from coming to their practice facilities where Krause has his office.

And Just like it wasn't worth it to MJ to go to another team to chase a ring, when he already won 6 and had been paid $100 million over the last 3 years.

 

[dtgold88]

It took Jordan and the Bulls multiple years to get by Boston, then multiple years to get by the Pistons. Jordan was never changing teams. The Knicks tried to get him to come to the NY with a $25 million dollar offer and all Jordan did was use it as collateral to get the Bulls to pay him $30 million.

Players didn't bounce from team to team in those days until the twilight of their careers if they hadn't won a ring yet.

NY offered him $25 mil and could still put a team around him? Never mind after playing for so little his entire career why would MJ not get all he could. didn't the Bulls give him $33 mil? He was supposed to take 25% less? Not exactly the same as now with max deals offered is is?

Players didn't bounce from team to team because there were no max contracts.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

The league was very different back as was the CBA. It was extremely difficult to do what the Heat did and create a super team from FAs.

Agreed -- my comment was in response to your statement that Jordan would have switched team if he couldn't beat a team. He had multiple teams it took him 2-3 years before he finally beat them in the playoffs.

What we see today -- players demanding trades to play with other stars -- that just never happened in the 90's.

 

[dtgold88]

You can ask, once it is all said and done, but when the coach and the players put up with the constant questions from the media for the entire year and Krause saying it wouldn't matter if he went 82-0 -- it was his last year, it wasn't worth it to them. To tell you how hostile the relationship was with Jackson and his agent -- his agent was banned by Krause from coming to their practice facilities where Krause has his office.

And Just like it wasn't worth it to MJ to go to another team to chase a ring, when he already won 6 and had been paid $100 million over the last 3 years.

You keep saying MJ wouldn't go to another team and I keep answering the same......he didn't need to go to another team. The point is he would not stay and try to win without Scottie and Phillip. Too much to put on him I guess.

 

[dtgold88]

Agreed -- my comment was in response to your statement that Jordan would have switched team if he couldn't beat a team. He had multiple teams it took him 2-3 years before he finally beat them in the playoffs.

What we see today -- players demanding trades to play with other stars -- that just never happened in the 90's.

correct. But not because MJ (or others) was such a competitor. It was because of how the CBA was structured then as compared to now.

 

[SJ76]

the old SportsHoopla "I cannot refute anything you said" facepalm. You must go through a lot of these.

Or I just choose to spend my time not playing Groundhog Day with you.

seems a bit wiser to accept the players and coaches and people’s opinions around the bulls org. But you can create a Krause coup all you want lol have at it

 

[tlance]

Agreed -- my comment was in response to your statement that Jordan would have switched team if he couldn't beat a team. He had multiple teams it took him 2-3 years before he finally beat them in the playoffs.

What we see today -- players demanding trades to play with other stars -- that just never happened in the 90's.

This is an assumption that is impossible to prove.

First, as @dtgold88 stated, he didn’t need to leave because he had a good young core around him by the time he could have left. He signed an 8 year extension in ‘88.

By the time that expired, the Bulls had 1 3 titles and he had already retired once.

Jordan literally had no reason to leave. Under different scenario with different rules, you never know.

One thing I do know for sure though, if players back then had the same free agency rules as players today, it is 100% certain that more stars would have changed teams.

 

[flyerhawk]

Agreed -- my comment was in response to your statement that Jordan would have switched team if he couldn't beat a team. He had multiple teams it took him 2-3 years before he finally beat them in the playoffs.

What we see today -- players demanding trades to play with other stars -- that just never happened in the 90's.

Jordan would have left millions on the table if he tried to change teams back then.

Today, players can get paid HUGE amounts of money no matter where they play. There is a perk for some players to stay with their team but it really isn't enough to incentivize them to stay.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

NY offered him $25 mil and could still put a team around him? Never mind after playing for so little his entire career why would MJ not get all he could. didn't the Bulls give him $33 mil? He was supposed to take 25% less? Not exactly the same as now with max deals offered is is?

Players didn't bounce from team to team because there were no max contracts.

They offered Jordan the $25 million in 96, I believe. You see -- teams could go over the salary cap, but only by signing their own FA's. I don't know the entire roster situation, but that was why Jordan ended up with $30 million in 96

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

This is an assumption that is impossible to prove.

First, as @dtgold88 stated, he didn’t need to leave because he had a good young core around him by the time he could have left. He signed an 8 year extension in ‘88.

By the time that expired, the Bulls had 1 3 titles and he had already retired once.

Jordan literally had no reason to leave. Under different scenario with different rules, you never know.

One thing I do know for sure though, if players back then had the same free agency rules as players today, it is 100% certain that more stars would have changed teams.

I said in that era it didn't happen. Even when the CBA changed -- it didn't happen much at all.

Then the Celtics with Allen, Garnett and Pierce happened, then Lebron, Wade, Bosh, then it became commonplace for superstars demanding trades and giving lists of teams they would agree to go to, etc.

The really don't see the rivalries of the past as players don't stay on teams long enough.

 

[Mecca]

My comment did have MJ removed from the Bulls. They still won 55 games when he quit the first time.

and since we are talking about building a team, doesn't MJ's ability to build one matter compared to Krause?

You are chasing your tail.

Michael the player has nothing to do with Michael the GM/Owner.

Did Magic Johnson's ability to play pg mean diddly squat when he became a Coach?

How about Trajon Langdon?

Stop trying to move the goalposts.

Doesn't work on me.

Not everyone can do what Larry Bird, Jerry West, Clint Eastwood can.

It's very hard to be a top talent and a top TALENT EVALUATOR.

 

[Mecca]

But we don't know that the deal offered also came with him not being able to pick his own staff. If that was a prerequisite (staff picked for him), no need to even negotiate further for him.

And, yes, it kind of matters what Phillip was offered. Suppose he was offered what top coaches earn and still declined?

But, sure, he does not have to be reasonable nor is he required to stay. But that's as much on him as Krause if that was his choice.

Yes, we do know.

You have the situation backwards.

Contract length, non-starter.

Assistants were already on the table.

Contract length ended the conversation.

It's been reported ad naseum.

As for Jackson, no it doesn't matter.

If he was offended, he was offended.

It matters not if he was being unreasonable.

I didn't think tying Lue's deal to Lebron's was a problem.

I actually thought it was very wise.

But, I'm not Ty Lue.



Initially, most thought it was Lakers management’s pushing Jason Kidd on Lue that helped him lose interest, which made sense given Kidd’s proclivity for coups and you know, lack of success as a coach. Then, there were whispers that the Lakers tried to force him to hire Kurt Rambis as an assistant.

It turns out, however, this was pretty straightforward, and Lue was insulted by the fiscal commitment the Lakers were(n’t) willing to make, according to Marc Stein of the New York Times.

 

[Wamu]

Yes, we do know.

You have the situation backwards.

Contract length, non-starter.

Assistants were already on the table.

Contract length ended the conversation.

It's been reported ad naseum.

As for Jackson, no it doesn't matter.

If he was offended, he was offended.

It matters not if he was being unreasonable.

I didn't think tying Lue's deal to Lebron's was a problem.

I actually thought it was very wise.

But, I'm not Ty Lue.



Initially, most thought it was Lakers management’s pushing Jason Kidd on Lue that helped him lose interest, which made sense given Kidd’s proclivity for coups and you know, lack of success as a coach. Then, there were whispers that the Lakers tried to force him to hire Kurt Rambis as an assistant.

It turns out, however, this was pretty straightforward, and Lue was insulted by the fiscal commitment the Lakers were(n’t) willing to make, according to Marc Stein of the New York Times.

"But, I'm not Ty Lue."

You're kidding?

 

[Mecca]

agree he has the right to go out as he pleases....but that was his call. No need to blame Krause.

Lebron made it to the Finals without Kyrie. Then joined a team with no other superstars. Not sure why that's relevant though. we are talking about MJ.

But, why didn't LeBron stay and face the challenge?

Why did he quit on the Cavs?

I guess he wasn't up for the challenge?

Ummmmm, why is it relevant?

Lmfao

Dude, we are in a Jordan vs Kobe vs LeBron thread.

I am a self-proclaimed Jordan Fangirl and you are trying to use this as a con against Jordan.

it's a ridiculously weak argument on your part, considering LeBron has quit on all his previous 3 teams after losing in the Finals.

Jordan left after WINNING.

So, I'm extremely confused by which guy wasn't up for the challenge?

Well, no.....I'm not confused.

The answer is neither guy leaving is a issue.

They both have a right to choose their place of employ and to bow out of a situation they dee m toxic.

We don't have to agree with their reasoning.

 

[Wamu]

But, why didn't LeBron stay and face the challenge?

Why did he quit on the Cavs?

I guess he wasn't up for the challenge?

Ummmmm, why is it relevant?

Lmfao

Dude, we are in a Jordan vs Kobe vs LeBron thread.

I am a self-proclaimed Jordan Fangirl and you are trying to use this as a con against Jordan.

it's a ridiculously weak argument on your part, considering LeBron has quit on all his previous 3 teams after losing in the Finals.

Jordan left after WINNING.

So, I'm extremely confused by which guy wasn't up for the challenge?

If MJ was really a winner he would have stuck around until he won a title with the Wizards.

 

[Mecca]

If MJ was really a winner he would have stuck around until he won a title with the Wizards.

If stick-to-it-tiveness is the Holy Grail...

Kobe is the GOAT.

He could have hitched his wagon to that Curry guy and rode off into the sunset.

Instead, he accepted the Challenge!!!!!!

Hey, maybe Bleacher Report got it right?

Petty Ass Paul Pierce is the Goat....lol

 

[tlance]

If MJ was really a winner he would have stuck around until he won a title with the Wizards.

Great idea!

He could be the first player in league history to take the court in a wheel chair.

 

[Mecca]

Great idea!

He could be the first player in league history to take the court in a wheel chair.

This Paul Pierce slander has got to stop.

 

[Mecca]

@trojanfan12

We can't post pictures anymore?

I keep getting a X.

 

[Wamu]

If stick-to-it-tiveness is the Holy Grail...

Kobe is the GOAT.

He could have hitched his wagon to that Curry guy and rode off into the sunset.

Instead, he accepted the Challenge!!!!!!

Hey, maybe Bleacher Report got it right?

Petty Ass Paul Pierce is the Goat....lol

The only way Kobe's the GOAT is on a video game system. ColecoVision rocks! Fight me.

Like I've said before the heart & soul of the Warriors dynasty was Patrick McCaw. Yet nobody ever believes me. Without him they'll never win another title.

Bleacher Report is okay. But I find the Mad magazine sports section more informative.

Sometimes when Paul Pierce is talking I get so fed up with his BS I wanna run him over with a wheelchair.