Who Has a Shot at a National Title in 2020

[Wild Turkey]

If I had known these retarded wordy mofos were going to take over my thread I would never have started it.

 

[LawDawg]

Dude, your BIAS seeps through with every paragraph. I see your so-called evidence, which is fine, but it's your blatant and obvious heavy dose of your own baised opinion that I mock.

3rd season results for Dabo and Fleck

Dabo = 10-4
Fleck = 11-2.

Yep, Fleck CAN NEVER EVER even dream of matching Dabo's accomplishments. Yep, you got me, 4 losses in a weak ass ACC conf is much better than only 2 in one of the best conferences.

Minnesota this year, had 5 fellow B1G teams finish in the Top 20 with them.
Clemson this year? lol had ZERO ACC teams finish in the Top 28 with them.


Dabo's 3rd season, when they went 10-4, there wasn't a single ACC team that made the Top 20. WOW, yeah, that 10-4 season which finished off with a LOSS to #23 going into the game WVU, is SO MUCH MORE impressive than UMn's 11-2 season that finished off with a win over #9 going into the game, Auburn.

LMMFGDAO@LAWDAWG!!!

You do realize I hate Clemson and Dabo, right? You are the one who hopes you can be like Clemson because you didn’t realize how well they actually recruited. Not me. I hope they lose every game they play.

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

You do realize I hate Clemson and Dabo, right? You are the one who hopes you can be like Clemson because you didn’t realize how well they actually recruited. Not me. I hope they lose every game they play.

I could care less how you feel about Clemson, it's your bias AGAINST Minnesota that screams out so blatantly.

11-2 vs a B1G with 5 other Top 20 teams and a WIN vs a Top Ten Auburn, going in, opponent in Bowl game is FAR SUPERIOR to

10-4 vs an ACC with ZERO other Top 28 teams, and a LOSS to a #23, going in, WVU in their Bowl game is FAR INFERIOR.

 

[Across The Field]

I could care less how you feel about Clemson, it's your bias AGAINST Minnesota that screams out so blatantly.

11-2 vs a B1G with 5 other Top 20 teams and a WIN vs a Top Ten Auburn, going in, opponent in Bowl game is FAR SUPERIOR to

10-4 vs an ACC with ZERO other Top 28 teams, and a LOSS to a #23, going in, WVU in their Bowl game is FAR INFERIOR.

I don't think anyone is trying to say Dabo's 3rd year was better than Fleck's (or that Fleck's wasn't obviously better), but the odds of Minnesota becoming another Clemson is extremely unlikely given how much stronger the Big Ten is than the ACC.

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

I don't think anyone is trying to say Dabo's 3rd year was better than Fleck's (or that Fleck's wasn't obviously better), but the odds of Minnesota becoming another Clemson is extremely unlikely given how much stronger the Big Ten is than the ACC.

Well, you are the only one using that aspect as a factor. Most everyone else is claiming Minnesota will NEVER be able to match Clemson in recruiting, and that UMn MUST match Clemson's recruiting in order to ever have a chance to beat the likes of Bama, OSU & Clemson or whoever the 2nd flavor is each year out of the SEC.


Do you think UMn will NEVER be able to pull in good enough recruiting classes and/or coach em up well enough to compete?


Seems to me, a team with just five 4* players beat a team with what, 50-60 4* players?

 

[Across The Field]

Well, you are the only one using that aspect as a factor. Most everyone else is claiming Minnesota will NEVER be able to match Clemson in recruiting, and that UMn MUST match Clemson's recruiting in order to ever have a chance to beat the likes of Bama, OSU & Clemson or whoever the 2nd flavor is each year out of the SEC.


Do you think UMn will NEVER be able to pull in good enough recruiting classes and/or coach em up well enough to compete?


Seems to me, a team with just five 4* players beat a team with what, 50-60 4* players?

Can't predict the future. Minnesota could end up becoming a top 10 program or it could fizzle. The biggest issue is location. Clemson is right in the middle of a recruiting hotbed while Minnesota is isolated. They're going to need to show a long history of success in order to get the elite kids with Bama/OSU/Clemson offers to go there. They could get one here or there, but not with that level of consistency.

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

Can't predict the future. Minnesota could end up becoming a top 10 program or it could fizzle. The biggest issue is location. Clemson is right in the middle of a recruiting hotbed while Minnesota is isolated. They're going to need to show a long history of success in order to get the elite kids with Bama/OSU/Clemson offers to go there. They could get one here or there, but not with that level of consistency.

Yeah, but one advantage UMn has, is Fleck's energy and his whole culture thing. He was told he was too small and too short to play in the NFL, but he proved them all wrong. Bet no one thought he could turn WMU into a 13-0 team, but he did, with a team full of recruiting classes in the 80s, 90s and the 100s even.

And yes, UMn is isolated, but that also means less competition. Clemson has 4 times as many schools they have to compete with for recruits.

Another advantage UMn has, is their location. LOL Yeah, I mean that. There is a room in the Student Village, called the Leadership Center, it has former UMners business accomplishments posted on one of the walls, and a huge window looking out over the Minneapolis skyline, where 17 Fortune 500 companies are headquartered, with alot of them being run by former UMners. Any student-athlete with enough brains and character and humility and wisdom to understand only a small percentage of players end up playing in the NFL, and many of those don't last long, and most of those end up broke within 3-4 years after their NFL careers are done, will see the advantage of going to a school with such a major focus on OTHER OPTIONS, more realistic options, some very lucrative options.

And don't tell me no one cares about academics and UMn's been breaking academic records ever since Fleck showed up, getting 3 players onto the 1st Team Academic All-America team in 2018. WMU's fb teams GPA rose each of the years Fleck was there, same has happened here at UMn.

He doesn't need superstars. He needs smart players, he needs guys with heart, and with leadership abilities, guys who are team players. No prima donnas on the Gophers roster. No room for that bs. And guys who will listen to their coaches, guys who will work their arses off to improve. Guys Fleck can coach up. And what are the results? A team with just 5 four star players beats a team with over ten times as many 4* players.


Fleck's recruiting rankings have been creeping up and getting close to matching Dabo's early recruiting classes.

And I don't think Fleck wants arrogant NFL bound ego maniacs and prima donnas on his roster like the big 3 are bringing in. He wants guys who fit into his program. Who can play a role, fill a gap, make a tackle, run good routes, avoid throwing interceptions, etc..


And like UMn is a destination for top national recruits in many other sports, he'll prove to the nation it should be a destination for the right kind of top notch cfb recruits as well.

 

[Rolltide94]

Except I clearly gave you a counter to that which explicitly shows proving my point.

These aren't counters, my friend! You do realize that these teams since they lost one game, couldn't make it in? If they would've won that one game? Would they be in? That's the question.

As for P5, please, it's certainly possible for non-P5 teams to make it in, they just need to prove to themselves first and schedule better opponents.

Can you honestly say UCF & Clemson were that different? Both easy schedules and dominating seasons?

Which is a flaw and supports my point. One loss, you're out. Double negative for G5 teams. Basketball doesn't have this problem thank god.


1) Nope. I said consistently, which the Big Ten isn't consistently represented.
2) I couldn't really care about the Pac 12 tbh, they just beat themselves up too much. But once again, consistently gets left unrepresented.
3) How is the system that only really gives 15-20 teams a chance good? At least have about 12 teams enter in, all P5 and G5 champions represented with six at large, set up as the NFL Playoffs as well. I don't possibly see how this is bad and why people would complain.
4) BCS wasn't good, but 1v2 atm makes more sense than what we got now.

There is a reason 2 loss teams don't get in...they aren't worthy. Alabama this year, and Auburn two years ago are about as good as it gets for 2 loss teams...not worthy of inclusion.

If you like the basketball tournament, you should watch the basketball tournament, but if you think it crowns the best college basketball team you are crazy. It crowns a tournament winner. Don't be trying to fuck up college football with that shit.

If you can't possibly see how your 12 team autobid scenario is bad, then perhaps you need to get out more. I am perfectly happy with 2-loss Alabama not making the playoffs, I am not OK with Appalachian State who was a decent team, but beat the two .500 P5 teams they played by a combined 8 points, or FAU, who got their ass handed to them by tOSU and UCF, or LOL, 8-5 Miami of Ohio, who lost to Ohio State 76-5, all making the playoffs. I am think you either misspoke(no big surprise) or can't count. Maybe you mean the top ranked G5 team, because there are 5 G5 conferences, hence the name. Either way, 12 is a ridiculously high and unnecessary number.

The BCS was better than what came before it and so is the CFP, If we are struggling to figure out who should be the 4 seed, why do we need an 8.

 

[Across The Field]

Yeah, but one advantage UMn has, is Fleck's energy and his whole culture thing. He was told he was too small and too short to play in the NFL, but he proved them all wrong. Bet no one thought he could turn WMU into a 13-0 team, but he did, with a team full of recruiting classes in the 80s, 90s and the 100s even.

And yes, UMn is isolated, but that also means less competition. Clemson has 4 times as many schools they have to compete with for recruits.

Another advantage UMn has, is their location. LOL Yeah, I mean that. There is a room in the Student Village, called the Leadership Center, it has former UMners business accomplishments posted on one of the walls, and a huge window looking out over the Minneapolis skyline, where 17 Fortune 500 companies are headquartered, with alot of them being run by former UMners. Any student-athlete with enough brains and character and humility and wisdom to understand only a small percentage of players end up playing in the NFL, and many of those don't last long, and most of those end up broke within 3-4 years after their NFL careers are done, will see the advantage of going to a school with such a major focus on OTHER OPTIONS, more realistic options, some very lucrative options.

And don't tell me no one cares about academics and UMn's been breaking academic records ever since Fleck showed up, getting 3 players onto the 1st Team Academic All-America team in 2018. WMU's fb teams GPA rose each of the years Fleck was there, same has happened here at UMn.

He doesn't need superstars. He needs smart players, he needs guys with heart, and with leadership abilities, guys who are team players. No prima donnas on the Gophers roster. No room for that bs. And guys who will listen to their coaches, guys who will work their arses off to improve. Guys Fleck can coach up. And what are the results? A team with just 5 four star players beats a team with over ten times as many 4* players.


Fleck's recruiting rankings have been creeping up and getting close to matching Dabo's early recruiting classes.

And I don't think Fleck wants arrogant NFL bound ego maniacs and prima donnas on his roster like the big 3 are bringing in. He wants guys who fit into his program. Who can play a role, fill a gap, make a tackle, run good routes, avoid throwing interceptions, etc..


And like UMn is a destination for top national recruits in many other sports, he'll prove to the nation it should be a destination for the right kind of top notch cfb recruits as well.

I'm glad you have that level of confidence, and I'm sure Fleck will churn out plenty of fine young men. However, if you think you can win on the biggest stage with classes ranked in the mid-20s, it's probably going to be a disappointment.

I get Fleck's culture, and it's why I like him and think he's going to have success that likely exceeds his recruiting, but there are attractive cultures all over the country. Dabo is a prime example of it, resurrecting Clemson and turning them into an ultrapower from being mediocre in less than a decade. Coachs like Dabo, Ryan Day, Lincoln Riley, Mario Cristobal, etc. have kids on their team that would run through a brick wall for them. It's what makes successful coaches successful and mediocre coaches mediocre.

I'll be honest, I think PJ Fleck is a better coach than Gus Malzahn, and that's why he beat them. There's a reason Auburn pulls in the level of athletes it does yet has only finished in the top 10 once in the CFP era while finishing unranked twice. However, when you start going down the path of "He only wants to bring in certain types of players", that usually means you expect seasons like 2019 to be the ceiling and not the norm. There are plenty of blue chip, top 100 guys that are high character that work their ass off. It's up to him to bring in those types of guys if you want to compete at the upper echelon.

 

[LawDawg]

I could care less how you feel about Clemson, it's your bias AGAINST Minnesota that screams out so blatantly.

11-2 vs a B1G with 5 other Top 20 teams and a WIN vs a Top Ten Auburn, going in, opponent in Bowl game is FAR SUPERIOR to

10-4 vs an ACC with ZERO other Top 28 teams, and a LOSS to a #23, going in, WVU in their Bowl game is FAR INFERIOR.

You couldn't be more wrong ... in my initial post I told you that I liked Minnesota and followed your games last year. You have a Tift County GA WR that I really wanted UGA to get. You guys had a great season. You had an exciting team. You beat Auburn which made my day. So, no, I am not biased against your team.

When we started posting, you seemed to think that you were on the same arc as Clemson was recruiting-wise. I got where you were coming from ... dynamic coach, takes a team that hadn't won a NC in 30+ years (trust me, I get that), and has a really great year. Starts recruiting way better than his predecessor. Says all the right things ... community, us against the world (boy, does Dabo have that shitck down), do it the right way, etc. But, as I showed you with facts - incontrovertible facts - Dabo didn't win with bad recruiting that your narrative is based on ... Dabo won with a roster stacked with blue chip players, and a 2 time heisman finalist. As I posted, your roster isn't in the same universe as Clemson was when they won in 2016. In a post above you said that "Fleck's recruiting rankings have been creeping up and getting close to matching Dabo's early recruiting classes." Did you simply ignore the numbers in my posts? You aren't anywhere near close ... they had 39 blue chips in 2016. You have 5, and in the class after the best year you have had in forever, you only got 2 low 4* players. So, while I kind of get your narrative because of your coach's personality, the narrative simply runs into reality.

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

I'm glad you have that level of confidence, and I'm sure Fleck will churn out plenty of fine young men. However, if you think you can win on the biggest stage with classes ranked in the mid-20s, it's probably going to be a disappointment.

I get Fleck's culture, and it's why I like him and think he's going to have success that likely exceeds his recruiting, but there are attractive cultures all over the country. Dabo is a prime example of it, resurrecting Clemson and turning them into an ultrapower from being mediocre in less than a decade. Coachs like Dabo, Ryan Day, Lincoln Riley, Mario Cristobal, etc. have kids on their team that would run through a brick wall for them. It's what makes successful coaches successful and mediocre coaches mediocre.

I'll be honest, I think PJ Fleck is a better coach than Gus Malzahn, and that's why he beat them. There's a reason Auburn pulls in the level of athletes it does yet has only finished in the top 10 once in the CFP era while finishing unranked twice. However, when you start going down the path of "He only wants to bring in certain types of players", that usually means you expect seasons like 2019 to be the ceiling and not the norm. There are plenty of blue chip, top 100 guys that are high character that work their ass off. It's up to him to bring in those types of guys if you want to compete at the upper echelon.

Oh, I never said he wouldn't want Top 100 ranked players. Just that he'd rather have a #350 ranked guy with all the positive traits he needs vs the Top 100 player with character issues or a bad attitude. But when the Top 100 ranked guy with the good character comes along, I'm hoping Fleck can steal him right out from under the likes of Saban and Dabo and Day.

And I'm not saying to get to the 20s and stop. Heck no. I believe he's almost to the 20s already. I mean, most of the 2020 recruiting class was filled up before the PSU win. So the 2020 class probably didn't get as much of a bounce because of the 2019 season as some thought it should have or could have. But the 2021 class, I fully expect to be in the 20s, at the worst, might sneek into the teens. And with how he runs his program, I think a roster filled up with classes in the low 20s and the teens could win the B1G West regularly, and when the circumstances are right, could also pull off the occasional B1G Conf Title and cfp appearance.


So NO WAY do I want 2019 to be the ceiling, not even close, because we didn't beat our 2 biggest rivals. Iowa this year was just one of our worst games, so I think we were the better team, and we had been out recruiting Iowa before Fleck got here, but they've actually improved a lot in their recruiting, as has UW and Nebraska and Minnesota. So the B1G West is going to be tough going into the future.


I think Fleck, taking only his kind of players, can get to the point where we regularly beat 2 of 3 against Wisconsin, Iowa & PSU/Mich, and occasionally win all 3-4 of those games.

As for OSU? Well, I'll wait to see how that plays out. Maybe there are enough Top 100 or Top 300 rated players who are of good character and attitude and he can get his recruiting classes up into the single digits and maybe he'll give OSU a run for their money?

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

You couldn't be more wrong ... in my initial post I told you that I liked Minnesota and followed your games last year. You have a Tift County GA WR that I really wanted UGA to get. You guys had a great season. You had an exciting team. You beat Auburn which made my day. So, no, I am not biased against your team.

When we started posting, you seemed to think that you were on the same arc as Clemson was recruiting-wise. I got where you were coming from ... dynamic coach, takes a team that hadn't won a NC in 30+ years (trust me, I get that), and has a really great year. Starts recruiting way better than his predecessor. Says all the right things ... community, us against the world (boy, does Dabo have that shitck down), do it the right way, etc. But, as I showed you with facts - incontrovertible facts - Dabo didn't win with bad recruiting that your narrative is based on ... Dabo won with a roster stacked with blue chip players, and a 2 time heisman finalist. As I posted, your roster isn't in the same universe as Clemson was when they won in 2016. In a post above you said that "Fleck's recruiting rankings have been creeping up and getting close to matching Dabo's early recruiting classes." Did you simply ignore the numbers in my posts? You aren't anywhere near close ... they had 39 blue chips in 2016. You have 5, and in the class after the best year you have had in forever, you only got 2 low 4* players. So, while I kind of get your narrative because of your coach's personality, the narrative simply runs into reality.

You keep bringing up 2016. That was Dabo's NINTH season?

Why do you insist on comparing Dabo's 9th ssn with Fleck's 3rd. I'm comparing Dabo's THIRD season with Fleck's 3rd ssn.

And when I compared Fleck to Dabo, I was referring to what they did ON THE FIELD. Fleck compared VERY favorably in his 3rd ssn at UMn compared to Dabo's 3rd full ssn at Clemson.

As for recruiting, I wasn't comparing them straight up. Sure, Dabo's recruiting was better than Fleck's has been, first 3 years. But I think Fleck has proven he can do MORE with less. Dabo inherited a MUCH BETTER roster, if you only look at the imperfect recruiting rankings. Dabo inherited a team with players from 3 straight classes of 15, 14 & 16, followed by the #9 ranked class in 08. Yet Dabo somehow lost 7 games in his 2nd season, and only went 10-4 in his 3rd??? And Dabo's first couple recruiting classes included a 36th ranked class in 09 and a 27th ranked class in 2010. Fleck's already gotten a #35 and a #38 class, and is well on his way to doing better than that 27th ranked class of Dabo's.

So the combo of on the field performance, Fleck's being better with much less talent to work with, combined with recruiting not that far off from what Dabo started with, it's just my opinion Fleck is well on his way to matching Dabo's path of success.



And when I say you are biased against Minnesota, I'm not saying you hate them or despise them or cheer against them, what I'm saying is your opinion of their recruiting possibilities, so what UMn has to offer recruits, is seriously skewed to the negative. Do you even know all that UMn has done to improve their status and what they can offer recruits?

 

[michaeljordan_fan]

, so what UMn has to offer recruits, is seriously skewed to the negative. Do you even know all that UMn has done to improve their status and what they can offer recruits?

 

[LawDawg]

You keep bringing up 2016. That was Dabo's NINTH season?

Why do you insist on comparing Dabo's 9th ssn with Fleck's 3rd. I'm comparing Dabo's THIRD season with Fleck's 3rd ssn.

And when I compared Fleck to Dabo, I was referring to what they did ON THE FIELD. Fleck compared VERY favorably in his 3rd ssn at UMn compared to Dabo's 3rd full ssn at Clemson.

As for recruiting, I wasn't comparing them straight up. Sure, Dabo's recruiting was better than Fleck's has been, first 3 years. But I think Fleck has proven he can do MORE with less. Dabo inherited a MUCH BETTER roster, if you only look at the imperfect recruiting rankings. Dabo inherited a team with players from 3 straight classes of 15, 14 & 16, followed by the #9 ranked class in 08. Yet Dabo somehow lost 7 games in his 2nd season, and only went 10-4 in his 3rd??? And Dabo's first couple recruiting classes included a 36th ranked class in 09 and a 27th ranked class in 2010. Fleck's already gotten a #35 and a #38 class, and is well on his way to doing better than that 27th ranked class of Dabo's.

So the combo of on the field performance, Fleck's being better with much less talent to work with, combined with recruiting not that far off from what Dabo started with, it's just my opinion Fleck is well on his way to matching Dabo's path of success.



And when I say you are biased against Minnesota, I'm not saying you hate them or despise them or cheer against them, what I'm saying is your opinion of their recruiting possibilities, so what UMn has to offer recruits, is seriously skewed to the negative. Do you even know all that UMn has done to improve their status and what they can offer recruits?

I used 2016 because you did. You did say in this thread about whose team would win the CFP that you thought UMn could win the CRP, so I think that is why you first brought up Clemson in 2016.

I would say that what I am pointing out is not negative, but being realistic. You are obviously a big fan, so it makes sense you take that as being negative, but it's not meant to be. I am just pointing out the facts as I see them. I am open to facts to the contrary. And arguments to the contrary.

You might have missed one sentence I wrote in my first post, and that is that I think if college football gets too concentrated at the top that it isn't good for college football. I said that in the context of pointing out that your season last year was refreshing for CFB. And, it is getting too concentrated ... of the 24 eligible slots in the CFP's 6 years, Clemson, Bama, OU and tOSU have been in 17. I'm not complaining, my team got beat in OT in the finals, and have been close 2 other times in the past 3 years. And those teams all deserved to be there, and I can't really think of a team that got screwed out of being there. But, having followed college football for 50+ years, we need other teams - UTx, USC, PSU, UM, UCLA, Miami, FSU, UTjr, UF, UGA - to get back to the level where there are more and different teams in the 4 or 8 team CFP. It's always been cyclical, so most of those teams have a chance. If UMn can get in that group, I'd have no problem with it. In fact, I'd welcome it as it makes the sport better.

I'd be truly interested to see what it is that UMn has done or could do to suddenly get top 10 classes.

 

[Across The Field]

I used 2016 because you did. You did say in this thread about whose team would win the CFP that you thought UMn could win the CRP, so I think that is why you first brought up Clemson in 2016.

I would say that what I am pointing out is not negative, but being realistic. You are obviously a big fan, so it makes sense you take that as being negative, but it's not meant to be. I am just pointing out the facts as I see them. I am open to facts to the contrary. And arguments to the contrary.

You might have missed one sentence I wrote in my first post, and that is that I think if college football gets too concentrated at the top that it isn't good for college football. I said that in the context of pointing out that your season last year was refreshing for CFB. And, it is getting too concentrated ... of the 24 eligible slots in the CFP's 6 years, Clemson, Bama, OU and tOSU have been in 17. I'm not complaining, my team got beat in OT in the finals, and have been close 2 other times in the past 3 years. And those teams all deserved to be there, and I can't really think of a team that got screwed out of being there. But, having followed college football for 50+ years, we need other teams - UTx, USC, PSU, UM, UCLA, Miami, FSU, UTjr, UF, UGA - to get back to the level where there are more and different teams in the 4 or 8 team CFP. It's always been cyclical, so most of those teams have a chance. If UMn can get in that group, I'd have no problem with it. In fact, I'd welcome it as it makes the sport better.

I'd be truly interested to see what it is that UMn has done or could do to suddenly get top 10 classes.

Well said.

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

I used 2016 because you did. You did say in this thread about whose team would win the CFP that you thought UMn could win the CRP, so I think that is why you first brought up Clemson in 2016.

I would say that what I am pointing out is not negative, but being realistic. You are obviously a big fan, so it makes sense you take that as being negative, but it's not meant to be. I am just pointing out the facts as I see them. I am open to facts to the contrary. And arguments to the contrary.

You might have missed one sentence I wrote in my first post, and that is that I think if college football gets too concentrated at the top that it isn't good for college football. I said that in the context of pointing out that your season last year was refreshing for CFB. And, it is getting too concentrated ... of the 24 eligible slots in the CFP's 6 years, Clemson, Bama, OU and tOSU have been in 17. I'm not complaining, my team got beat in OT in the finals, and have been close 2 other times in the past 3 years. And those teams all deserved to be there, and I can't really think of a team that got screwed out of being there. But, having followed college football for 50+ years, we need other teams - UTx, USC, PSU, UM, UCLA, Miami, FSU, UTjr, UF, UGA - to get back to the level where there are more and different teams in the 4 or 8 team CFP. It's always been cyclical, so most of those teams have a chance. If UMn can get in that group, I'd have no problem with it. In fact, I'd welcome it as it makes the sport better.

I'd be truly interested to see what it is that UMn has done or could do to suddenly get top 10 classes.

Cool man. I'll try to show you what UMn has done.

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

I'd be truly interested to see what it is that UMn has done or could do to suddenly get top 10 classes.

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

I'd be truly interested to see what it is that UMn has done or could do to suddenly get top 10 classes.

 

[socaljim242]

I don't trust any team from the Pac12. The last like 10 years they keep having some team that gets pumped up before the season, only to end up as the best team in the Pac12 but with like 2-4 losses. Stanford, USC, Washington, Oregon...don't trust 'em.

USC is 6-1 vrs Michigan in their last seven Rose Bowl meetings. I wouldn't trust them either if I was a Michigan fan.