So, Is The "U" Back?

[Deep Creek]

That's sort of my point. He went to Utah and completely rejuvenated that program, and it's his protege that still leads them to this day. They're not an elite power, but they are a really good program. They've won 9+ games five of the last six years, but before Urban went there, they had won 9+ games twice ever. I'm not saying he would've won national titles there, but clearly he made his imprint there.

Would he have won a NC at Texas Tech? It's very possible, but not likely. Of course it's easier to get better recruits at big-time schools, but you still have to be an elite coach to win there. On the topic at hand, michigan certainly falls under the umbrella of being a big-time school with the resources to win a title, but their coaching and development has been crap.

Have to disagree on the natty at Tech. But I agree totally on Michigan...and several other schools like USC, Texas, FSU, etc. Even schools like Tennessee, A&M, Florida, UCLA, etc. While their coaching has not been up to snuff considering their brands, resources, etc, they have also not been recruiting well enough IMO. They haven't put together near the quality and quantity of athletes like like Ohio State, Clemson and Alabama. They should be stealing some of the players those schools are stockpiling. So, IMO they have flubbed on both ends of the coaching spectrum...recruiting and developing.

 

[Across The Field]

Have to disagree on the natty at Tech. But I agree totally on Michigan...and several other schools like USC, Texas, FSU, etc. Even schools like Tennessee, A&M, Florida, UCLA, etc. While their coaching has not been up to snuff considering their brands, resources, etc, they have also not been recruiting well enough IMO. They haven't put together near the quality and quantity of athletes like like Ohio State, Clemson and Alabama. They should be stealing some of the players those schools are stockpiling. So, IMO they have flubbed on both ends of the coaching spectrum...recruiting and developing.

If those schools had elite coaches, they would be on the level of OSU, Clemson, and Alabama. If you put Urban at any of those schools a decade ago, I'm more than willing to bet he wins a national title. Coaching and development changes everything. It's what makes recruits want to come to your school. Look at Clemson's recruiting before Dabo. Look at OSU's recruiting before Urban (even though they were still an elite national program under Tressel, which is a testament to his coaching ability with the classes he pulled in). Elite coaching and development is what attracts kids, because they know they're going to be in position to win titles and be ready for the pros.

All things being equal, the top-tier schools in terms of resources have no excuse for not competing other than their coaches aren't winners and aren't developing players, which is the crux of this argument.

 

[ericd7633]

If we're at the point that the michigan excuse is now that they don't get to play us at night when they're at home, the conversation is probably over. That's one of the worst excuses I've ever heard.

You yourself have said in the past playing at night is a big advantage.

 

[Across The Field]

You yourself have said in the past playing at night is a big advantage.

I've said it's a more difficult environment. I've never once said it's THE reason a team loses a game, and it's definitely not a legitimate excuse for losing 7 out of 8 games, which is what has happened the last 8 times michigan has hosted OSU. Gotta come up with something better than that.

 

[ericd7633]

I've said it's a more difficult environment. I've never once said it's THE reason a team loses a game, and it's definitely not a legitimate excuse for losing 7 out of 8 games, which is what has happened the last 8 times michigan has hosted OSU. Gotta come up with something better than that.

Thank you.

 

[Across The Field]

Devin Bush sums it up well:

Devin Bush: ‘I need hope’ Harbaugh, Michigan can get over hump

We need to walk into that game and not be like, ‘OK, I hope Ohio State don’t show up today... We had a lot of guys come out and go to the NFL and be good, and still playing. We had NFL talent at Michigan. It’s just the mentality at Michigan.

That's the sign of a piss-poor coaching staff.

 

[Across The Field]

Thank you.

Are we going to get back to more relevant points, or are you going to keep riding the michigan excuse train with TrustMe?

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

If we're at the point that the michigan excuse is now that they don't get to play us at night when they're at home, the conversation is probably over. That's one of the worst excuses I've ever heard.

It doesn’t surprise you that this is what you took out his comment.

 

[Deathroll]

D’Eriq King and Quincy Roche joins the Canes. Will they win the Coastal, reach 10 wins, go to a NY6 Bowl, etc.? Is the U back?

Try winning the ACC for the very first time.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Devin Bush sums it up well:

Devin Bush: ‘I need hope’ Harbaugh, Michigan can get over hump



That's the sign of a piss-poor coaching staff.

Yes — the guy who won the first two division titles ever for San Diego and had the only QB ever drafted in school history.

The guy who took over, not just the worst team in P5, but one of the worst programs in all of CFB — with both their offense and defense being ranked in the bottom 5-10 teams out of 130 and in 4 years, go from 1-11 to 12-1.

The guy who went to SF and took a team who hadn’t had a winning record in a decade and goes on to win 2 division titles and a conference title and won 70+% of his games.

Then took a 5 win UM team and won 10 games with the QB who lost his job at Iowa.

What Harbaugh hasn’t done is hit on a QB recruit and it was the one position UM had nothing for him when he got here. You can say Shea Patterson til you are blue in the face, but anyone who has watched him — knows exactly where he struggled and teams forced him to throw downfield.

Until he finds an elite QB — Michigan will continue to be what they are. A 9 or 10 win team. They will continue to beat everyone they are more talented than — they will have battles with PSU and MSU, they will get owned by OSU.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

So you're telling me OSU was overlooking games against ranked Michigan State, Penn State, and Wisconsin teams? Are you serious right now? So you're telling me the ONLY reason michigan can't compete the way these other teams are is because our players get up for the michigan game and don't get up for the games against the others, even when those are massive games? If anything, that's a further indictment against your coaches that they can't get their players to do the same.

Happy to help. Here are the national rankings of OSU classes going back to 2000: 9, 6, 4, (here's where Tressel took over fully) 46, 55, 74, 25, 72, 10, 5

Here's michigan: 27, 3, 14, 5, 6, 5, 10, 11, 11, 10

So once Tressel took over, our recruiting nose-dived and yours was still very good, yet we owned you. Now why could that be? Could it be because Cooper was a shit coach and Tressel was elite? Man, it's almost as if elite coaching is what really matters... weird.

I think MSU beat OSU the one year because they were built for bad weather and OSU wasn’t. It played directly into their strengths.

I think PSU beat you because night games and especially white outs at PSU — the team comes out all pumped up, the fans are all pumped up, while the away team has been holed in a hotel waiting for the game. If you’ve ever travelled for a sport (which I’m guessing you haven’t) — you would understand why opposing coaches do not like night away games.

As far as the 2000’s — I can’t say I remember the games to make comments. Only thing I can find is the fact OSU was favored in every game but 2 from 2000-2009 and UM was 1-1 in games they were favored. Some of the games UM was unranked, while OSU was top 10. We are talking almost 20 years ago.

 

[ericd7633]

Are we going to get back to more relevant points, or are you going to keep riding the michigan excuse train with TrustMe?

What excuse? You yourself said playing a night game is an advantage. That's never going to be afforded for either Michigan or OSU. I've said OSU develops players as well as anyone in the country. You're the one that can't seem to realize how much more talented osu's rosters have been. And since Urban was there, MSU has beaten OSU twice, PSU once, Iowa once and Purdue once. Essentially nobody is beating OSU since 2012. Michigan has been competitive in games. I'd say they were competitive in 2012, 2013, 2016 and 2017.

 

[Across The Field]

Yes — the guy who won the first two division titles ever for San Diego and had the only QB ever drafted in school history.

The guy who took over, not just the worst team in P5, but one of the worst programs in all of CFB — with both their offense and defense being ranked in the bottom 5-10 teams out of 130 and in 4 years, go from 1-11 to 12-1.

The guy who went to SF and took a team who hadn’t had a winning record in a decade and goes on to win 2 division titles and a conference title and won 70+% of his games.

Then took a 5 win UM team and won 10 games with the QB who lost his job at Iowa.

What Harbaugh hasn’t done is hit on a QB recruit and it was the one position UM had nothing for him when he got here. You can say Shea Patterson til you are blue in the face, but anyone who has watched him — knows exactly where he struggled and teams forced him to throw downfield.

Until he finds an elite QB — Michigan will continue to be what they are. A 9 or 10 win team. They will continue to beat everyone they are more talented than — they will have battles with PSU and MSU, they will get owned by OSU.

Michigan State came into Ohio State at night with a backup nobody QB and beat us with one of the most talented college football teams of the decade. Your excuses are trash,

 

[Across The Field]

What excuse? You yourself said playing a night game is an advantage. That's never going to be afforded for either Michigan or OSU. I've said OSU develops players as well as anyone in the country. You're the one that can't seem to realize how much more talented osu's rosters have been. And since Urban was there, MSU has beaten OSU twice, PSU once, Iowa once and Purdue once. Essentially nobody is beating OSU since 2012. Michigan has been competitive in games. I'd say they were competitive in 2012, 2013, 2016 and 2017.

JT Barrett, Cardale Jones, Zeke Elliott, Joey Bosa, Michael Thomas, Devin Smith, Darron Lee, Joshua Perry, Tyvis Powell, Doran Grant, Eli Apple, Michael Bennett, Steve Miller. All 4* or lower, and these were the guys that won us a national title. All guys who are on the recruiting level of what michigan can bring in. We had I think 2 guys, Vonn Bell and Raekwon McMillon, who were 5* that were big contributors that year.

There is no excuse for them if we're only going on recruiting. Develop players better and win games that matter and elite recruits will want to join your program. Period.

 

[ericd7633]

JT Barrett, Cardale Jones, Zeke Elliott, Joey Bosa, Michael Thomas, Devin Smith, Darron Lee, Joshua Perry, Tyvis Powell, Doran Grant, Eli Apple, Michael Bennett, Steve Miller. All 4* or lower, and these were the guys that won us a national title. All guys who are on the recruiting level of what michigan can bring in. We had I think 2 guys, Vonn Bell and Raekwon McMillon, who were 5* that were big contributors that year.

There is no excuse for them if we're only going on recruiting. Develop players better and win games that matter and elite recruits will want to join your program. Period.

I'm talking in general. Not one specific year. But out of all those guys you named, most of them were top 100 guys. Michigan simply doesn't get as many top 100 guys. Trustme pointed that out earlier.

 

[Across The Field]

I'm talking in general. Not one specific year. But out of all those guys you named, most of them were top 100 guys. Michigan simply doesn't get as many top 100 guys. Trustme pointed that out earlier.

But why? michigan has the brand name, the history, the education, the revenue/resources, they play in a good major conference, play in a massive stadium, what else do they need? Why don't as many high-end recruits want to go to michigan like they do OSU? Why do we routinely have 3/4* guys become absolute monsters while michigan doesn't?

Coaching and development. Honestly, I'm surprised michigan does as good in recruiting as they do, considering the massive flop Harbaugh has been in almost every way.

Oh wait, that's right. It's the online classes. LOL.

 

[ericd7633]

But why? michigan has the brand name, the history, the education, the revenue/resources, they play in a good major conference, play in a massive stadium, what else do they need? Why don't as many high-end recruits want to go to michigan like they do OSU? Why do we routinely have 3/4* guys become absolute monsters while michigan doesn't?

Coaching and development. Honestly, I'm surprised michigan does as good in recruiting as they do, considering the massive flop Harbaugh has been in almost every way.

Oh wait, that's right. It's the online classes. LOL.

Biggest reason why OSU was able to get high end recruits was because of Urban. We was able to go into Texas and Florida to get great talent. My guess is he had built in relationships with people in the south that Harbaugh doesn't. He did spend like 6 years at UF or whatever it was. Also Ohio produces more in State talent than Michigan does. Urban turned OSU into a national brand. Michigan just isn't that. Sure Michigan will get kids from other parts of the country, but generally not the elite recruits like the Bosa's, Okuduh, Wade, Victor, Browning, Dobbins etc.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Michigan State came into Ohio State at night with a backup nobody QB and beat us with one of the most talented college football teams of the decade. Your excuses are trash,

Again. Not taking anything away from MSU, but the reason they won was the weather as much as anything else. They had a great run defense, but their secondary wasn’t that good. The weather made both teams one dimensional.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Biggest reason why OSU was able to get high end recruits was because of Urban. We was able to go into Texas and Florida to get great talent. My guess is he had built in relationships with people in the south that Harbaugh doesn't. He did spend like 6 years at UF or whatever it was. Also Ohio produces more in State talent than Michigan does. Urban turned OSU into a national brand. Michigan just isn't that. Sure Michigan will get kids from other parts of the country, but generally not the elite recruits like the Bosa's, Okuduh, Wade, Victor, Browning, Dobbins etc.

Any actual CFB fan who takes the rivalry out of it will say the exact same thing.
Harbaugh’s California contacts from Stanford have helped him bring in kids UM never would have got to travel across the country. David Long, Devin Asiasi (he transferred back to Cali after one year to play by home), Giles Jackson, Zach Charbonnet, etc.

ATF will tell anyone who will listen it was because of OSU. But it was hiring Meyer, while the top programs in Florida and Texas struggled — he raided those states and got many of the recruits to come to OSU.

The only way UM is getting some of the elite type recruits that OSU gets all the time is if they are interested in the academics. You can go down the list:
Peppers almost had a 4.0

Gary’s mom was ALL about academics because of his dyslexia and he almost had a 4.0

Daxton Hill almost had a 4.0

DPJ wants to be a doctor, like his dad and had a 4.0

Those are the kind of 5 star guys we get.

 

[Across The Field]

Biggest reason why OSU was able to get high end recruits was because of Urban. We was able to go into Texas and Florida to get great talent. My guess is he had built in relationships with people in the south that Harbaugh doesn't. He did spend like 6 years at UF or whatever it was. Also Ohio produces more in State talent than Michigan does. Urban turned OSU into a national brand. Michigan just isn't that. Sure Michigan will get kids from other parts of the country, but generally not the elite recruits like the Bosa's, Okuduh, Wade, Victor, Browning, Dobbins etc.

And I'll bring up the recruiting from the 2000s. michigan was soundly kicking Ohio State's ass in recruiting, yet we beat them every year Tressel was here but once. Why's that? Because Tressel was an elite coach and talent developer, which is something michigan hasn't had in 20+ years.

Again, recruiting stars do not mean success if you don't have elite coaching and development. It's why Clemson, Alabama, and Ohio State are elite year after year while Florida State, Texas, Miami, and USC have fallen off. All things being equal, the only thing that sets Ohio State apart from michigan is that we hire amazing coaches while they settle for duds. That's it.

Oh, and as @TrustMeIamRight pointed out, we lure all these blue chip kids with online classes. Can't forget about that...