THE BIG 10 THREAD

[fishinabarrel]

 

[fritowrdo]

I believe Michigan student athletes, especially in football, have it pretty good. I certainly didn't take a trip to South Africa this year.

Michigan is a great school for academics. Would not have a problem if any of my kids went there.

I just think you have an over hyped and paid football coach.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

Michigan is a great school for academics. Would not have a problem if any of my kids went there.

I just think you have an over hyped and paid football coach.

I think Harbaugh is a good coach. And I think we have to pay him that because it's what he'd get in the NFL, yes even now. I think if we hired someone else, we would be worse. What Harbaugh is struggling with here is what any coach would and we need to find a way to overcome it. We're on par with Notre Dame in terms of talent, and that back and forth between us and them shows it. We're not on par with the talent at OSU or any of the super elite programs right now. Clemson currently has more five stars committed in the 2020 class than Michigan has pulled in since Harbaugh got here. OSU has 8 top 100 kids in the 2020 class, Michigan currently has 1. If we want to beat OSU, it's not our coaching that needs to change it's recruiting.

 

[gob]

I think Harbaugh is a good coach. And I think we have to pay him that because it's what he'd get in the NFL, yes even now. I think if we hired someone else, we would be worse. What Harbaugh is struggling with here is what any coach would and we need to find a way to overcome it. We're on par with Notre Dame in terms of talent, and that back and forth between us and them shows it. We're not on par with the talent at OSU or any of the super elite programs right now. Clemson currently has more five stars committed in the 2020 class than Michigan has pulled in since Harbaugh got here. OSU has 8 top 100 kids in the 2020 class, Michigan currently has 1. If we want to beat OSU, it's not our coaching that needs to change it's recruiting.

michigan had a better rated recruiting class than Clemson in 2019. They did have a shitty 2018 class, but 2017 was top 5 (better than Oklahoma and LSU). 2016 was top 10 (better than Oklahoma and Clemson).

So, since 2016, you've had 3 top 10 classes and one 20 something class. It's not like you're recruiting like Wisconsin. You're probably the second best recruiting class in the B1G, yet you've really only came close to making the championship game once (right? 2016?). PSU has made it. mSU has made it.

 

[PnkPanther]

Fucking badgers


Go tOHSU

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

michigan had a better rated recruiting class than Clemson in 2019. They did have a shitty 2018 class, but 2017 was top 5 (better than Oklahoma and LSU). 2016 was top 10 (better than Oklahoma and Clemson).

So, since 2016, you've had 3 top 10 classes and one 20 something class. It's not like you're recruiting like Wisconsin. You're probably the second best recruiting class in the B1G, yet you've really only came close to making the championship game once (right? 2016?). PSU has made it. mSU has made it.

The total rankings are misleading though. Michigan and Clemson had an equal amount of top 100 talent last class.

In the classes 2015-2019 Mich pulled in 15 top 100 players. Clemson pulled in 24. So in the last 5 classes Clemson has had almost an entire starting lineup more in top 100 talent than Michigan. And that's probably the closest you're going to see of the elite teams. In that same span, Georgia has had 38, LSU 27, OSU 42...and I could probably go on.

So Michigan is doing good at taking in a lot of lower rated 4 star kids, higher rated 3 star kids and getting a good overall class ranking. Which is why we're producing good teams. But the reason we can't beat OSU should be clear. They've almost tripled the amount of top 100 talent we've been able to pull in since Harbaugh signed on.

 

[gob]

The total rankings are misleading though. Michigan and Clemson had an equal amount of top 100 talent last class.

In the classes 2015-2019 Mich pulled in 15 top 100 players. Clemson pulled in 24. So in the last 5 classes Clemson has had almost an entire starting lineup more in top 100 talent than Michigan. And that's probably the closest you're going to see of the elite teams. In that same span, Georgia has had 38, LSU 27, OSU 42...and I could probably go on.

So Michigan is doing good at taking in a lot of lower rated 4 star kids, higher rated 3 star kids and getting a good overall class ranking. Which is why we're producing good teams. But the reason we can't beat OSU should be clear. They've almost tripled the amount of top 100 talent we've been able to pull in since Harbaugh signed on.

I would imagine that the more top end guys you get, the more you're going to suffer from early entrants, too. So what you have in "talent" you lose in experience.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

I would imagine that the more top end guys you get, the more you're going to suffer from early entrants, too. So what you have in "talent" you lose in experience.

As Fields has shown, experience doesn't matter as much in today's CFB. It still does a bit on defense, but kids are constantly coming in and playing earlier and earlier now (Trevor Lawrence at Clemson) or any number of the Alabama QB's that just rotate in and perform.

 

[Across The Field]

As Fields has shown, experience doesn't matter as much in today's CFB. It still does a bit on defense, but kids are constantly coming in and playing earlier and earlier now (Trevor Lawrence at Clemson) or any number of the Alabama QB's that just rotate in and perform.

But as Ohio State as a team has shown, championship-level teams aren't made up solely of top 100 talent, and plenty of top 100 talent doesn't pan out. The great coaches know how to take unheralded recruits and turn them into studs. I posted, what, 14-15 guys that are vital to OSU's success that were not top 100 guys?

That's where Harbaugh has failed. Maybe he isn't going to get as many top 100 guys, but he's still winding up with the caliber of recruiting classes that should at the very least compete on a national level. Has he even been to a NY6 game? How do you explain Wisconsin stomping out michigan earlier this year with the returning talent on michigan's offense? Are you going to tell me Penn State has recruited better than michigan over the last few years? You've got to come to terms with the fact that Harbaugh is simply a good coach, but is far from being great.

 

[Wamu]

I think Harbaugh is a good coach. And I think we have to pay him that because it's what he'd get in the NFL, yes even now. I think if we hired someone else, we would be worse. What Harbaugh is struggling with here is what any coach would and we need to find a way to overcome it. We're on par with Notre Dame in terms of talent, and that back and forth between us and them shows it. We're not on par with the talent at OSU or any of the super elite programs right now. Clemson currently has more five stars committed in the 2020 class than Michigan has pulled in since Harbaugh got here. OSU has 8 top 100 kids in the 2020 class, Michigan currently has 1. If we want to beat OSU, it's not our coaching that needs to change it's recruiting.

A legit question for you. What makes Harbaugh a good coach?

1-10 vs. top 10 teams
0-8 as an underdog
1-6 on the road vs. ranked teams

-only coach to start 0-5 vs. Ohio State
-gave up an all time worst 62 last year to the Buckeyes
-only coach in UofM history to give up 50+ to Ohio State in back to back games

-he hasn't won a division title
-he hasn't won a conference crown
-has a losing bowl record

And Ohio State has beaten UofM 8 straight for the 1st time in the Rivalry. I judge a CFB coach by their college coaching resume. And Harbaugh's is terrible.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

But as Ohio State as a team has shown, championship-level teams aren't made up solely of top 100 talent, and plenty of top 100 talent doesn't pan out. The great coaches know how to take unheralded recruits and turn them into studs. I posted, what, 14-15 guys that are vital to OSU's success that were not top 100 guys?

That's where Harbaugh has failed. Maybe he isn't going to get as many top 100 guys, but he's still winding up with the caliber of recruiting classes that should at the very least compete on a national level. Has he even been to a NY6 game? How do you explain Wisconsin stomping out michigan earlier this year with the returning talent on michigan's offense? Are you going to tell me Penn State has recruited better than michigan over the last few years? You've got to come to terms with the fact that Harbaugh is simply a good coach, but is far from being great.

Right, but that's exactly our problem. We get 15 elite talent guys, and only a percentage of those pan out. So if say 75% of those guys pan out (or whatever the number may be), that means in the last five years we've had 11 elite players to OSU's 30. So while we also have guys we've developed (Devin Bush, both Glasgow brothers), you need that elite talent around them. So I don't think Harbaugh has failed there. We're getting that player development from lower ranked guys, we just don't have the top 100 talent at the top. It's hard to say that's a failure on Harbaugh, recruiting top 100 talent isn't easy; especially if you're trying to rebuilt a program and compete with one of the two most elite programs in the nation while doing so.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

A legit question for you. What makes Harbaugh a good coach?

1-10 vs. top 10 teams
0-8 as an underdog
1-6 on the road vs. ranked teams

-only coach to start 0-5 vs. Ohio State
-gave up an all time worst 62 last year to the Buckeyes
-only coach in UofM history to give up 50+ to Ohio State in back to back games

-he hasn't won a division title
-he hasn't won a conference crown
-has a losing bowl record

And Ohio State has beaten UofM 8 straight for the 1st time in the Rivalry. I judge a CFB coach by their college coaching resume. And Harbaugh's is terrible.

Harbaugh has a winning or even record vs every major team in the B10 not named OSU, along with all other rivals (ND, MSU and Minn). Along with a top 10 winning percentages of any active coach who's coaches multiple years as a program. He might not be an elite coach, but I think you're bias is showing if you dont' think he's at least a good one.

 

[Wamu]

Harbaugh has a winning or even record vs every major team in the B10 not named OSU, along with all other rivals (ND, MSU and Minn). Along with a top 10 winning percentages of any active coach who's coaches multiple years as a program. He might not be an elite coach, but I think you're bias is showing if you dont' think he's at least a good one.

I'm being biased by mentioning his lack of coaching accomplishments? Those aren't made up #'s, they're facts. You just keep those homer goggles super glued to your head.


"he might not be an elite coach"

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^





And I've said countless times Harbaugh's a good coach. But he's not elite. Actually not even close. Yet you think he's better than his record shows.

 

[Across The Field]

Right, but that's exactly our problem. We get 15 elite talent guys, and only a percentage of those pan out. So if say 75% of those guys pan out (or whatever the number may be), that means in the last five years we've had 11 elite players to OSU's 30. So while we also have guys we've developed (Devin Bush, both Glasgow brothers), you need that elite talent around them. So I don't think Harbaugh has failed there. We're getting that player development from lower ranked guys, we just don't have the top 100 talent at the top. It's hard to say that's a failure on Harbaugh, recruiting top 100 talent isn't easy; especially if you're trying to rebuilt a program and compete with one of the two most elite programs in the nation while doing so.

We've also developed a considerably larger amount of our non-elite recruits that michigan has.

Bottom line, michigan has all the resources a team could ever need to bring in elite recruits, and they have a ton of money available to pay high end coaches. There is zero excuse for, 5 years in, Harbaugh has not won the division, not played in a NY6 Bowl, and to have no real marquee elite wins. You have elite level resources and Harbaugh is paid like an elite coach.

 

[Wamu]

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

I'm being biased by mentioning his lack of coaching accomplishments? Those aren't made up #'s, they're facts. You just keep those homer goggles super glued to your head.


"he might not be an elite coach"

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


View attachment 224819


And I've said countless times Harbaugh's a good coach. But he's not elite. Actually not even close. Yet you think he's better than his record shows.

All the things you've said are true, but so are the things I've said. You can't look at just the things he hasn't done without looking at the things he has done. Guess what? Even going back to Lloyd we only have two wins in the last 16 years and what, 1 outright B10 title? I keep mentioning how this didn't start with Harbaugh and it's something we need to break out of.

 

[ericd7633]

I'm seeing Hafley and Washington's names being thrown out at some of these openings in the last couple days. Would be interesting to see if OSU loses some staff members. My guess is they will.

 

[gob]

All the things you've said are true, but so are the things I've said. You can't look at just the things he hasn't done without looking at the things he has done. Guess what? Even going back to Lloyd we only have two wins in the last 16 years and what, 1 outright B10 title? I keep mentioning how this didn't start with Harbaugh and it's something we need to break out of.

Wasn't he hired to break out of it?

 

[gob]

I'm seeing Hafley and Washington's names being thrown out at some of these openings in the last couple days. Would be interesting to see if OSU loses some staff members. My guess is they will.

It wouldn't surprise me to see someone go... But I'd hope it wasn't someone who just got here

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

We've also developed a considerably larger amount of our non-elite recruits that michigan has.

Bottom line, michigan has all the resources a team could ever need to bring in elite recruits, and they have a ton of money available to pay high end coaches. There is zero excuse for, 5 years in, Harbaugh has not won the division, not played in a NY6 Bowl, and to have no real marquee elite wins. You have elite level resources and Harbaugh is paid like an elite coach.

I'm going to eliminate 2015 because it was a transition year, but starting in 2016 here are our draft picks and star ranking:

2016:
Willie Henry 3 star
Jake Rudock 3 star
Graham Glasgow walk on

2017:
Jeremy Clark 3 star
Jake Butt 4 star
Jehu Chesson 3 star
Ryan Glasgow walk on
Ben Gedeon 4 star
Amara Darboh 4 star
Delano Hill 4 star
Jourdan Lewis 4 star
Chris Wormley 4 star
Taco Charlton 4 star
Peppers 5 star

So in the first two full years of Harbaugh, 6 of our 14 draft picks were 3 stars or lower.

And BTW Harbaugh did play in a NY6 bowl against FSU in 2016 (orange).