THE BIG 10 THREAD

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

Wasn't he hired to break out of it?

Yup. I'm willing to give him plenty of time to do so. Like I said, I don't see anyone else coming in and doing better unless we land Saban.

 

[7Samurai13]

Yup. I'm willing to give him plenty of time to do so. Like I said, I don't see anyone else coming in and doing better unless we land Saban.

At least Harbaugh is better than Ohio State’s high school coach, right?

 

[Wamu]

All the things you've said are true, but so are the things I've said. You can't look at just the things he hasn't done without looking at the things he has done. Guess what? Even going back to Lloyd we only have two wins in the last 16 years and what, 1 outright B10 title? I keep mentioning how this didn't start with Harbaugh and it's something we need to break out of.

It's hilarious you called me biased towards Harbaugh for mentioning his lack of coaching accomplishments. Homers will always homer though.

Here are some other facts you won't like. Will you call me biased again for mentioning them? His team has been outscored 118-66 by Ohio State the last 2 meetings. Let's see you spin that in UofM's favor. His team got whooped by Florida last year in their bowl game.

"you can't look at just the things he hasn't done without looking at the things he has done"

What exactly has he done though? Let's see here. Losing record vs. his main rival. Losing record vs. ranked teams. Losing bowl record. Your turn. List his accomplishments since returning to ann arbor.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

It's hilarious you called me biased towards Harbaugh for mentioning his lack of coaching accomplishments. Homers will always homer though.

Here are some other facts you won't like. Will you call me biased again for mentioning them? His team has been outscored 118-66 by Ohio State the last 2 meetings. Let's see you spin that in UofM's favor. His team got whooped by Florida last year in their bowl game.

"you can't look at just the things he hasn't done without looking at the things he has done"

What exactly has he done though? Let's see here. Losing record vs. his main rival. Losing record vs. ranked teams. Losing bowl record. Your turn. List his accomplishments since returning to ann arbor.

Yup, he can't beat OSU. He's done bad in bowl games. But he wins a lot of games, he beats most teams in the B10 not named OSU.

Your entire argument is basically, "he can't beat OSU therefore he's not a good coach". I don't agree with that.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

At least Harbaugh is better than Ohio State’s high school coach, right?

OSU's talent really covered up the faults of their HS coach....










That's a joke, and I have to say that because Wamu doesn't understand the internet.

 

[7Samurai13]

Yup, he can't beat OSU. He's done bad in bowl games. But he wins a lot of games, he beats most teams in the B10 not named OSU.

Your entire argument is basically, "he can't beat OSU therefore he's not a good coach". I don't agree with that.

Michigan’s talent really covered up the faults of their JHS coach....

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

Michigan’s talent really covered up the faults of their JHS coach....

I'm OK with that as long as we keep beating MSU.

People really forget that just 5 years ago we were losing to Rutgers. RUTGERS.

 

[ericd7633]

It's hilarious you called me biased towards Harbaugh for mentioning his lack of coaching accomplishments. Homers will always homer though.

Here are some other facts you won't like. Will you call me biased again for mentioning them? His team has been outscored 118-66 by Ohio State the last 2 meetings. Let's see you spin that in UofM's favor. His team got whooped by Florida last year in their bowl game.

"you can't look at just the things he hasn't done without looking at the things he has done"

What exactly has he done though? Let's see here. Losing record vs. his main rival. Losing record vs. ranked teams. Losing bowl record. Your turn. List his accomplishments since returning to ann arbor.

He doesn't have the accomplishments simply because he can't beat, what is, an elite program in OSU. There is no question the State of the program is much healthier now than when he took over. I mean Michigan was losing to Maryland and Rutgers before he got there. Lol.

 

[Across The Field]

I'm going to eliminate 2015 because it was a transition year, but starting in 2016 here are our draft picks and star ranking:

2016:
Willie Henry 3 star
Jake Rudock 3 star
Graham Glasgow walk on

2017:
Jeremy Clark 3 star
Jake Butt 4 star
Jehu Chesson 3 star
Ryan Glasgow walk on
Ben Gedeon 4 star
Amara Darboh 4 star
Delano Hill 4 star
Jourdan Lewis 4 star
Chris Wormley 4 star
Taco Charlton 4 star
Peppers 5 star

So in the first two full years of Harbaugh, 6 of our 14 draft picks were 3 stars or lower.

And BTW Harbaugh did play in a NY6 bowl against FSU in 2016 (orange).

Oh right, congrats on that one NY6 bowl that you lost.

Why not do 2018-2019? You're picking all guys that were there for at least a year or two before Harbaugh came to town. Alright, I'll do it.

2018:
Mason Cole - 4*
Maurice Hurst - 4*

2019:
Rashan Gary - 5*
Devin Bush - 4*
Chase Winovich - 4*
David Long - 4*
Zach Gentry - 4*

Looking at the 2020 draft, I'm not seeing many dudes who weren't 4/5* either. Bottom line, Harbaugh is basically doing the bare minimum with the recruiting talent he has brought in. This michigan offense, with a stout OL, former 5* QB, a top 50 overall national recruit RB, and loads of talent at WR should be a top unit in the nation. They're not even close to being top 25 in total offense and scoring offense. It isn't even about Ohio State; michigan is underperforming overall.

 

[Across The Field]

He doesn't have the accomplishments simply because he can't beat, what is, an elite program in OSU. There is no question the State of the program is much healthier now than when he took over. I mean Michigan was losing to Maryland and Rutgers before he got there. Lol.

But it's been 5 years now, and he still can't get it done when they need it the most. I mean, he's the 3rd highest paid coach in the nation. That is just sad.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

He doesn't have the accomplishments simply because he can't beat, what is, an elite program in OSU. There is no question the State of the program is much healthier now than when he took over. I mean Michigan was losing to Maryland and Rutgers before he got there. Lol.

Exactly. Losing to Rutgers really changed my perspective here.

 

[kburjr]

47-17
52-14

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

Oh right, congrats on that one NY6 bowl that you lost.

Why not do 2018-2019? You're picking all guys that were there for at least a year or two before Harbaugh came to town. Alright, I'll do it.

2018:
Mason Cole - 4*
Maurice Hurst - 4*

2019:
Rashan Gary - 5*
Devin Bush - 4*
Chase Winovich - 4*
David Long - 4*
Zach Gentry - 4*

Looking at the 2020 draft, I'm not seeing many dudes who weren't 4/5* either. Bottom line, Harbaugh is basically doing the bare minimum with the recruiting talent he has brought in. This michigan offense, with a stout OL, former 5* QB, a top 50 overall national recruit RB, and loads of talent at WR should be a top unit in the nation. They're not even close to being top 25 in total offense and scoring offense. It isn't even about Ohio State; michigan is underperforming overall.

It's actually not the offense that was the problem. We started slow which impacted our overall ranking, but in the 2nd half of the season we have to have been a top 20 offense. We did score the most points on OSU than any other team all season with the #1 defense. And teams with offenses ranked well above us (PSU and Wisconsin) combined for fewer total points than we scored. We're losing because of defense. In the last 4 years we're averaging 28 points against OSU. Problem being we're giving up 44 a game.

We'll see how the draft pans out the next couple years. I think Josh Uche (3 star), Khaleek Hudson (3 star), Josh Metellus (3 star), Kwity Paye (3 star)...and maybe a few others have a shot at being drafted and were developed nicely by this staff.

Honestly, I question Brown at this point. His defenses shred lesser teams by blitzing but get shredded by high powered offenses where he puts guys in man on guys they can't cover. I'd be happy if he got a job elsewhere, I don't see Harbaugh letting him go.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

But it's been 5 years now, and he still can't get it done when they need it the most. I mean, he's the 3rd highest paid coach in the nation. That is just sad.

I just don't get what the pay has to do with anything. If we were paying him a million bucks a year instead of 9, would you still not trash him?

 

[Wamu]

Yup, he can't beat OSU. He's done bad in bowl games. But he wins a lot of games, he beats most teams in the B10 not named OSU.

Your entire argument is basically, "he can't beat OSU therefore he's not a good coach". I don't agree with that.

What does his inability to beat Ohio State have to do with all the other losses to ranked teams though?

You seem to only be focused on his record vs. Ohio State. I'm looking at his total resume as coach of UofM.

 

[Wamu]

He doesn't have the accomplishments simply because he can't beat, what is, an elite program in OSU. There is no question the State of the program is much healthier now than when he took over. I mean Michigan was losing to Maryland and Rutgers before he got there. Lol.

Read comment # 3575.

 

[ericd7633]

But it's been 5 years now, and he still can't get it done when they need it the most. I mean, he's the 3rd highest paid coach in the nation. That is just sad.

Yeah he can't beat OSU just like the coaches the previous decade before he arrived. And nobody in the B1G is beating OSU. OSU has lost 4 B1G regular season games since Meyer arrived. The program is in better shape now than it has been in over a decade. They were losing to Rutgers and Maryland before him.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

What does his inability to beat Ohio State have to do with all the other losses to ranked teams though?

You seem to only be focused on his record vs. Ohio State. I'm looking at his total resume as coach of UofM.

Not including OSU, Harbaugh was 2-2 vs. other ranked teams this year. During the regular season last year, Harbaugh beat Northwestern (who won the west) and Penn State who finished top 20. Lost to ND and OSU in the regular season.

It's not like he does bad in the regular season vs. ranked teams who aren't named OSU.

 

[Across The Field]

It's actually not the offense that was the problem. We started slow which impacted our overall ranking, but in the 2nd half of the season we have to have been a top 20 offense. We did score the most points on OSU than any other team all season with the #1 defense. And teams with offenses ranked well above us (PSU and Wisconsin) combined for fewer total points than we scored. We're losing because of defense. In the last 4 years we're averaging 28 points against OSU. Problem being we're giving up 44 a game.

We'll see how the draft pans out the next couple years. I think Josh Uche (3 star), Khaleek Hudson (3 star), Josh Metellus (3 star), Kwity Paye (3 star)...and maybe a few others have a shot at being drafted and were developed nicely by this staff.

Honestly, I question Brown at this point. His defenses shred lesser teams by blitzing but get shredded by high powered offenses where he puts guys in man on guys they can't cover. I'd be happy if he got a job elsewhere, I don't see Harbaugh letting him go.

That 28PPG is a bit skewed by you getting 20 garbage time points against our awful defense last year in the 4th quarter when we even had backups in, but I'll give you credit for this year. You did a good job and scored more than I thought you would.

That said, you guys have brought in plenty of big time talent on the defensive side of the ball in recent years. We had to hear all year last year about how dominant your defense was, and it was a dud. You've been complementary of our offense this year, and for good reason, but you have an established DC with plenty of vets on that side of the ball, and we've done whatever we want for the last two years. This still comes back to Harbaugh. It's his job to make sure his team is complete and he clearly doesn't know how to do it. He's been out-coached dramatically, including this year against the "high school coach" as you said it. That would be really, really upsetting to me as a fan if I knew we were paying this guy top 3 national coach money.

 

[ericd7633]

Read comment # 3575.

Read comment #3577