2019 Offseason Thread

[dtgold88]

Heat is 2nd best expansion franchise of all time.

#fact

And since their inception in 88-89 they have won as many playoff series without Wade as the cavs have without Lebron IN THE SAME TIME FRAME

 

[tlance]

Not believing anything I read or hear would also include Heat saying they wont move him.

Yeah, I know....moot now.

I don’t think it is much that they won’t move him as it is that they would not move him for Russ.

And that is the right call, IMO.

The Paul trade is a good indicator of Russ’ value. Paul is probably he 2nd worst contract in the NBA and OKC had to take it along with 2 picks and 2 swaps.

If Houston had been able to salary dump Paul on a team with cap space, I am betting they would have had to pay a similar price.

Houston had to pay because Paul’s contract is that bad. But Russ’ trade value is pretty minimal because of his contract.

A fair trade for Miami/OKC would have been Russ for a couple expiring deals + Winslow and a pick

 

[dtgold88]

Lebron went from villain in Miami to savior in Cleveland and his image changed significantly. Once he won in Cleveland, his legacy was cemented. Don't know how anyone can't see that.

Very true, but no proof it was not as much Lebron's choice (or all his choice). Or that his friends, family, etc. encouraged him. That seems more likely.

 

[trojanfan12]

He was going to be a free agent next year either way. I respect his decision.

Yeah, it's not a great look for him, but end of the day, he received a better offer (at least financially).

Someone, I think maybe @ManuForever asked if a team has ever done this to a player.

I read this morning that it's basically how the Lakers got Quinn Cook. GSW made him a qualifying offer and then rescinded it when they traded for D-Lo.

 

[WiggyRuss]

one of the more interesting things with these future picks is the likely elimination of the 1 and done rule.

I have read articles that indicate many teams think that the 1 and done rule will be ended and that 2023 will be an effective "double draft".

It will be a year where you DONT want to be missing a pick. Effectively it will be 2 draft classes in one year.

The 6th pick is basically like the 3rd pick, and so on and so forth.

So, if your team is missing its 2023 pick, thats not good.

if your team has EXTRA 2023 picks, thats pretty damn valuable.

 

[dtgold88]

Of course not.

But also consider that Cleveland had the #1 pick and the rights to Wiggins. There was literally no other team out there that could check all these boxes for Love:

1) had the young assets to make the deal while still having enough left over to be a good team
2) were willing to part with those assets
3) was facing pressure to make the win now move

There weren’t many other viable options for Love. Both teams were highly incentivized to make this trade work, and Love wanted to out. He wanted to be just about anywhere but Minnesota.

All true, but you ignored this....."when did the Cavs have money to sign a FA? Only time they did was his first time here and he would not commit when the FAs asked him if he was staying (Redd comes to mind as one. Ariza to a lesser extent)."

 

[trojanfan12]

If Grayson Allen were a poster who would he be?

 

[thunderc]

Paul really getting beat up, deservedly so.

 

[dtgold88]

I don’t think it is much that they won’t move him as it is that they would not move him for Russ.

And that is the right call, IMO.

The Paul trade is a good indicator of Russ’ value. Paul is probably he 2nd worst contract in the NBA and OKC had to take it along with 2 picks and 2 swaps.

If Houston had been able to salary dump Paul on a team with cap space, I am betting they would have had to pay a similar price.

Houston had to pay because Paul’s contract is that bad. But Russ’ trade value is pretty minimal because of his contract.

A fair trade for Miami/OKC would have been Russ for a couple expiring deals + Winslow and a pick

somewhat agree....my premise was always IF Miami really wanted Russ. If they did hard to imagine a pick in the teens would be the guy who would stop them.

But we can't know.

 

[WiggyRuss]

somewhat agree....my premise was always IF Miami really wanted Russ. If they did hard to imagine a pick in the teens would be the guy who would stop them.

But we can't know.

exactly my thoughts....if you like RW and are willing to take on the contract, i think its not smart to let a 13th pick in what has been rated a very weak draft be the hold up.....especially since RW and Jimmy Buthole's prime years mesh well.

 

[trojanfan12]

Expecting a team with Blake and DJ (as the 2nd best player) to make the finals or be final contenders is pretty stupid TBH

And holding something like that against Blake is pretty sad

No one said that.

In 2011, the Clippers had Blake, CP3 and DJ. The Warriors didn't win their first title until 2015.

They had 4 years with those 3 before the Warriors run started.

 

[thunderc]

I really think Westbrook and Harden getting together a couple days ago is what happened here moreso than negotiations with the Heat falling through. There was a deal to be had there I think.

 

[Shanemansj13]

one of the more interesting things with these future picks is the likely elimination of the 1 and done rule.

I have read articles that indicate many teams think that the 1 and done rule will be ended and that 2023 will be an effective "double draft".

It will be a year where you DONT want to be missing a pick. Effectively it will be 2 draft classes in one year.

The 6th pick is basically like the 3rd pick, and so on and so forth.

So, if your team is missing its 2023 pick, thats not good.

if your team has EXTRA 2023 picks, thats pretty damn valuable.

Yeah forgot about that...who knows how these teams will be in 4+ years (MIA, LAC, HOU)

2023 OKC 1-30 w/ LAC
2023 MIA 15-30
2024 OKC 1-30
2024 LAC 1-30
2024 HOU 5-30
2025 OKC 1-30 w/ LAC or HOU (5-30)
2026 OKC 1-30
2026 LAC 1-30
2026 HOU 5-30

And I don't think they are done. Not sure they can get 1st rounders for CP3 but they can for Adams probably.

 

[WiggyRuss]

I really think Westbrook and Harden getting together a couple days ago is what happened here moreso than negotiations with the Heat falling through. There was a deal to be had there I think.

the problem with a heat deal was always going to be the cap relief.

the Heat are hard capped and cant take on any additional money. The Thudner wanted to get under the tax line.

 

[dtgold88]

If your scouting says he will fall to you, why trade up unnecessarily? Lakers could've traded up in the draft to get Kuzma (they had two late 1sts), but instead got him where they already were. A big part of the draft is getting good value.

Yes, but your scouting is what you think about a player. Other teams don't tell you what they think. You are suggesting this guy must be some player not to include him in a potential deal for an elite player. If you love him that much you don't just hope he makes it to the teens.

 

[Black Adam]

I did. you said he was a FA and you were wrong.

obviously you DIDN'T read the rest then...

this proves it...

go to the part where I said "i realize". just MIGHT clear it up for you...

 

[dtgold88]

You think?
Not sure why Cavs fans are so owned by the Heat franchise.

And, we were just informed by DTG that their success is equal, even though Heat has 3 Rings, Cavs 1, and have been in the league 16 less seasons.

Actually DTG replied to someone saying Heat = Cavs (I am being serious I will help you with readoing comp. if you just ask).

I stipulated to HIS comments as being true.

 

[dtgold88]

Wow, a rational Cavs fan.

Always...also if asked would say it's highly unlikely I see a title anytime soon (by that I mean 10-20 years or longer).

Agree with shane, though, and ya never know. Gonna take some serious luck and/or changes to CBA.

 

[dtgold88]

Why is that funny? All of your team's success is on LeBron's shoulders too.

And Cleveland IMO won't ever be able to 'build right' because no FA will come there.

And yes Riley might be out before Miami wins again, but Miami is still winning before Cleveland.

wouldn't state is as fact, but that would be my guess. Because of location...not smarts.

 

[Heatles84]

About as accurate as you're going to get