Brent Venables

[Diego Roll Tide]

Half of the B12 offenses landed in the top 25 of total offense. 3 were in the top 10, the 4th was number 11. Yes, Baylor was a top 25 offense regardless of your opinion. Stats back that up. I’m not against saying B12 defenses are bad, but due really should be given to these offenses too. Since in this thread everyone wants to deep throat the Clemson defense.

Use total offense, half of the B12 is in the top 25. The ACC doesn’t have half their offenses in the top 50. But yeah, way to cherry pick numbers that still cite the B12 offense we’re better than the ACC garbage. While again you aren’t accounting for that extra shit OOC game each ACC member receives. Although props to Clemson for scheduling someone worth a damn and not some horrid G5 puff. B12 offense are that much better than ACC offenses.

Cite something to back it up other than opinions. (You can use yards if you prefer, but I’ve yet to see a team awarded a game simply for gaining yards.) You’ve yet to offer ANYTHING other than “well, schedules”, and that one is true of SOME ACC and SMOE B12 teams. Baylor has been playing shit OOC schedules for years, and Clemson has played 2 P5 opponents virtually every year.

That said, AGAIN I agree B12 offenses are better on average, but not as much better as you suggest, and certainly not enough to account for the vast improvement in BV’s offenses since making the move.

In any event, the ONLY schedules that matter in discussing BV’s move are OU’s and CU’s, and whatever difference is there is negligible compared to the performance on the field.

 

[Diego Roll Tide]

I mean would you say Alabama had an NFL DL? Yet gave up...

31 to Arkansas
28 to Georgia
34 to Oklahoma
44 to Clemson

Under Tosh Lupoi/Pete Golding

They was the worst defense Saban has had at Bama since 07, and had OU had that defense they likely would’ve won a NC in 17 or 18.

 

[Red_Alert]

They was the worst defense Saban has had at Bama since 07, and had OU had that defense they likely would’ve won a NC in 17 or 18.

Not sure your point?

Were they loaded with NFL talent?

 

[Diego Roll Tide]

Not sure your point?

Were they loaded with NFL talent?

Probably (as the jury is out on the young secondary), but injuries at LB, youth in the secondary, and a lack of depth up front made them painfully inferior to other Saban defenses. WRT the secondary, the fact that a guy EVENTUALLY gets drafted means little when he is thrust into starting as a freshman in the most complex system in CFB.

 

[Red_Alert]

Probably (as the jury is out on the young secondary), but injuries at LB, youth in the secondary, and a lack of depth up front made them painfully inferior to other Saban defenses. WRT the secondary, the fact that a guy EVENTUALLY gets drafted means little when he is thrust into starting as a freshman in the most complex system in CFB.

meh

Bama is 4 and 5 stars three deep.

Seems more of a DC issue to me. Weren't both fairly new?

Now one has moved on?

 

[Diego Roll Tide]

meh

Bama is 4 and 5 stars three deep.

Seems more of a DC issue to me. Weren't both fairly new?

Now one has moved on?

They were new, and that probably had some effect, but less than the things I listed. If you track the defense, whenever we lack experience at DB the numbers are at their worst.

 

[Red_Alert]

They were new, and that probably had some effect, but less than the things I listed. If you track the defense, whenever we lack experience at DB the numbers are at their worst.

I didn't look very far into it. Just into the scoring aspect and the DC's time on the job.

I will stand my ground on OC's, DC's, and HC's who consistently have more talent than their opponents yet not be able to put the pieces together. That's in a general sense, and not a jab at Bama for 2018.

One season does not make a trend.

 

[DeafOranguntan]

Again, I can’t understand how you can claim what he did against OU while having a month to prepare is the same thing as having 7 days to prepare. An lol at picking the small sample size bowl games. Half of WVU offensive stars didn’t play in that game genius. Texas scored more points on Georgia than all but 3 of the games Georgia played. An lol bragging about mizzou scoring one more point.

Here you are, pumping up a Clemson defense that faced 3 top 25 total offenses. 1 of which was the playoff game. Maybe it’s just the result of playing high school offenses? It is truly pathetic how the 14 member ACC faired on offense last year. Hypocrite much?

You can try to excuse the bowl performance all you want. But the fact is, those games all happened. The Big 12 offenses did get mostly shut down. And I acknowledge one year is a small sample. That's why I also shared the fact that only the Pac 12 has a worse bowl record the last 5 years than the Big 12.

Not a hypocrite at all. I like how I made the point that the Big 12 only had 2 of 10 in the top 50 defenses, and you tried to swing around and say Clemson played 3 top 25 offenses. I know they don't teach math in West Virginia (you don't need no numbers mumbo jumbo witchcraft when you're in the mines), but 25 and 50 are different numbers and standards.

The ACC had 6 teams in the top 50 in offense (Clemson, Syracuse, NC State, Wake Forest, North Carolina, and Virginia Tech). Notre Dame was also there, so we'll say 6 1/2. Clemson faced 7 offenses in the top 50 (Alabama, Texas A&M, Syracuse, NC State, Notre Dame, Wake Forest, and South Carolina). Fun fact for you. The Big 12 only had 5 teams in the top 50 offenses (Oklahoma, West Virginia, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, and Baylor). West Virginia also faced 5 teams in the top 50 in offense (Texas Tech, Baylor, Oklahoma State, Oklahoma, and Syracuse). And since they own your conference, Oklahoma also faced 5 teams in the top 50 in offense. So, the ACC had more teams in the top 50 in offense (despite having much better defenses statistically, though third to the SEC and BIG) and Clemson played more top 50 offenses than West Virginia. So, if the ACC is facing high school offenses, what is West Virginia facing?

It's not that complicated. The Big 12 is completely and utterly owned by Oklahoma (9 Big 12 championships in 13 years). They do have an elite offense, one without question in the top 5 (I think Clemson and Alabama were definitely better, and I don't know vs. Ohio State). However, they do get the benefit of playing in a conference with the worst defenses in the P5. That definitely gives them a large boost in stats every year. But outside of them, only a small handful of teams in the Big 12 have good offenses. So there's no reason to think Venables couldn't succeed in the Big 12, if he could get the talent.

 

[Kaplony]

I'll give an opinion on him. (I'll have to explain my reasoning in advance).

I thought he was either overrated or underrated when he was at OU. He was both because I always believed
Bob Stoops ran that defense.

I think Venables learned from Stoops but I/we never got to see the real him. He had to do things that he may not
have liked but was demanded by Stoops from him. There is a reason why English Teachers don't teach History.

At Clemson he has been on his own. Dabo doesn't know anything about defense. Hell, when Dabo got there
he didn't really know anything about Offense until he learned it from Morris.

But to their crdit they got time to learn and are probably about as good as it gets right now. They've both adapted
nicely to a changing game.

What an absolutely clueless take.

 

[ralphiewvu]

Cite something to back it up other than opinions. (You can use yards if you prefer, but I’ve yet to see a team awarded a game simply for gaining yards.) You’ve yet to offer ANYTHING other than “well, schedules”, and that one is true of SOME ACC and SMOE B12 teams. Baylor has been playing shit OOC schedules for years, and Clemson has played 2 P5 opponents virtually every year.

That said, AGAIN I agree B12 offenses are better on average, but not as much better as you suggest, and certainly not enough to account for the vast improvement in BV’s offenses since making the move.

In any event, the ONLY schedules that matter in discussing BV’s move are OU’s and CU’s, and whatever difference is there is negligible compared to the performance on the field.

Are you retarded? The ncaa literally ranks Top offenses and Baylor was in their top 25 at number 22.
NCAA College Football FBS current team Stats | NCAA.com

You literally are crying about schedules while ignoring ACC teams play absolutely horrid schedules. They get the gift of pl aging one extra G5 shit and they still suck offensively. So I backed up my shit, now it’s time for you to back up your bullshit you are spewing. Can you?

An again, I’m not saying BV sucks. I’m stating he isn’t going through the gauntlet he did/would have since he went from Oklahoma to South Carolina. No wonder he has been more successful.

 

[ralphiewvu]

You can try to excuse the bowl performance all you want. But the fact is, those games all happened. The Big 12 offenses did get mostly shut down. And I acknowledge one year is a small sample. That's why I also shared the fact that only the Pac 12 has a worse bowl record the last 5 years than the Big 12.

Not a hypocrite at all. I like how I made the point that the Big 12 only had 2 of 10 in the top 50 defenses, and you tried to swing around and say Clemson played 3 top 25 offenses. I know they don't teach math in West Virginia (you don't need no numbers mumbo jumbo witchcraft when you're in the mines), but 25 and 50 are different numbers and standards.

The ACC had 6 teams in the top 50 in offense (Clemson, Syracuse, NC State, Wake Forest, North Carolina, and Virginia Tech). Notre Dame was also there, so we'll say 6 1/2. Clemson faced 7 offenses in the top 50 (Alabama, Texas A&M, Syracuse, NC State, Notre Dame, Wake Forest, and South Carolina). Fun fact for you. The Big 12 only had 5 teams in the top 50 offenses (Oklahoma, West Virginia, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, and Baylor). West Virginia also faced 5 teams in the top 50 in offense (Texas Tech, Baylor, Oklahoma State, Oklahoma, and Syracuse). And since they own your conference, Oklahoma also faced 5 teams in the top 50 in offense. So, the ACC had more teams in the top 50 in offense (despite having much better defenses statistically, though third to the SEC and BIG) and Clemson played more top 50 offenses than West Virginia. So, if the ACC is facing high school offenses, what is West Virginia facing?

It's not that complicated. The Big 12 is completely and utterly owned by Oklahoma (9 Big 12 championships in 13 years). They do have an elite offense, one without question in the top 5 (I think Clemson and Alabama were definitely better, and I don't know vs. Ohio State). However, they do get the benefit of playing in a conference with the worst defenses in the P5. That definitely gives them a large boost in stats every year. But outside of them, only a small handful of teams in the Big 12 have good offenses. So there's no reason to think Venables couldn't succeed in the Big 12, if he could get the talent.

Ohh geez, you can’t teach stupid. You are again using a small sample size. Also while ignoring stats.

I love how you are ignoring that half of the ACC didn’t reach the top 50 in total offense last year. Just a hint for you Johnny come lately ACC fan, THE ACC HAS 14 TEAMS. 15 if you want to count Notre Dame. I know they don’t teach common sense in South Carolina but not having half your offenses in the top 50 probably is a safe bet your defenses are going to succeed. Hence where I’m coming from in the Clemson argument. You want to talk about the ACC having 1.5 more offenses in the top 50 while having 5 more teams. Truthfully are you this stupid?

An a small handful of teams in the B12? Do you mean like half of them? Because half of the B12 offenses landed in the top 22 last year in total offense. The ACC didn’t come close to that.

It’s retards like you that truly deserve to not have internet access to spread your stupid.

 

[Kaplony]

Is this the same Big XII "gauntlet" that gets it's ass handed to it every time it faces a legitimate defense in the postseason? The same Big XII that's yet to come even close to winning a playoff game? Are we talking about the same Big XII?

If Big XII offenses were as formidable as you are trying to claim then why is it they shit the bed in the postseason so much?

 

[Red_Alert]

Wait..........Are we talking about the same Clemson here?

The one that's gone 8-2 in bowl games with 2 National Titles since Venables arrived in 2012?

 

[romeo212000]

Is this the same Big XII "gauntlet" that gets it's ass handed to it every time it faces a legitimate defense in the postseason? The same Big XII that's yet to come even close to winning a playoff game? Are we talking about the same Big XII?

If Big XII offenses were as formidable as you are trying to claim then why is it they shit the bed in the postseason so much?

2/3 Big 12 playoff appearances Oklahoma scored 35+. Oklahoma didn’t come close to beating Georgia in 2017? Come on, dude. You’re better than this.

 

[Kaplony]

2/3 Big 12 playoff appearances Oklahoma scored 35+. Oklahoma didn’t come close to beating Georgia in 2017? Come on, dude. You’re better than this.

OK..you came close to beating UGA. Now explain the fact that your "elite" offenses couldn't come close in your other playoff games. Explain WVU's "elite" offense getting shut down by Syracuse.

Not hard to put up great offensive numbers as a conference when you only play two hand touch during the regular season. Just like the 1980's WAC any offensive stat from the Big XII should be taken with a grain of salt.

 

[romeo212000]

OK..you came close to beating UGA. Now explain the fact that your "elite" offenses couldn't come close in your other playoff games. Explain WVU's "elite" offense getting shut down by Syracuse.

Not hard to put up great offensive numbers as a conference when you only play two hand touch during the regular season. Just like the 1980's WAC any offensive stat from the Big XII should be taken with a grain of salt.

We still scored something like 38 points versus Bama though we were never really in that game after going down 28-0. I’m not here to honk for the big 12. Defense is a fucking joke in this league and the conference leadership needs to get their head out of their asses and start letting teams play defense. Hopefully Riley and Grinch can get things turned around. Just asking you to be genuine in your posts.

 

[Kaplony]

We still scored something like 38 points versus Bama though we were never really in that game after going down 28-0. I’m not here to honk for the big 12. Defense is a fucking joke in this league and the conference leadership needs to get their head out of their asses and start letting teams play defense. Hopefully Riley and Grinch can get things turned around. Just asking you to be genuine in your posts.

Ever thought about the fact that the reason you scored 38 was because you were never really in the game after going down 28?

All I know is this: OU fans came on the Clemson boards talking shit about how they were going to rain points on us in the Russell Athletic Bowl and the only time you scored was when your first team offense was up against the ash and trash that wasn't redshirting in the 4th quarter. Then we heard all about how y'all had a real QB in Mayfield and were going to walk up and down the field on us....two sprained pussies from your running backs and a concussion from Mayfield trying to tackle Ben Fucking Boulware after an interception and there's absolutely nothing about a Big XII offense that impresses me. As I said...it's as big of a myth as the 1980's WAC....not hard to put up impressive numbers when your conference slate consists of paper tiger defenses. Hell, in both seasons OU would have struggled to be in the top 5 of offenses we faced those years.

 

[romeo212000]

Ever thought about the fact that the reason you scored 38 was because you were never really in the game after going down 28?

All I know is this: OU fans came on the Clemson boards talking shit about how they were going to rain points on us in the Russell Athletic Bowl and the only time you scored was when your first team offense was up against the ash and trash that wasn't redshirting in the 4th quarter. Then we heard all about how y'all had a real QB in Mayfield and were going to walk up and down the field on us....two sprained pussies from your running backs and a concussion from Mayfield trying to tackle Ben Fucking Boulware after an interception and there's absolutely nothing about a Big XII offense that impresses me. As I said...it's as big of a myth as the 1980's WAC....not hard to put up impressive numbers when your conference slate consists of paper tiger defenses. Hell, in both seasons OU would have struggled to be in the top 5 of offenses we faced those years.

Show us on the doll where Josh Heupel touched you. He can’t hurt you. He’s at UCF now.

 

[Kaplony]

Show us on the doll where Josh Heupel touched you. He can’t hurt you. He’s at UCF now.

He didn't. That's the point. These vaunted Big XII offenses aren't when they finally face a real defense.

BTW..the Orange Bowl was a Riley offense. It was a vast improvement. You scored 7 more points on Venables than Wofford. Congrats!

 

[romeo212000]

He didn't. That's the point. These vaunted Big XII offenses aren't when they finally face a real defense.

BTW..the Orange Bowl was a Riley offense. It was a vast improvement. You scored 7 more points on Venables than Wofford. Congrats!

I don’t know what your fucking problem is dude. I’m not on here talking shit to you or Clemson and neither is any other Sooner fan. You’ve got your panties in a twist over a fucking West Virginia troll for Christ sake. Jesus Christ chill the fuck out.

Our offense was nothing special in the athletic bowl so stop pimping that shit. That was our worst team in a fucking decade. We lost like five fucking games that year. The orange bowl was a wake up call that we didn’t have the horses in the trenches on either side of the ball to hang with a team like Clemson or Bama. We got that shit fixed on the offensive side of the ball but we’ve be cursed with Mike fucking Stoops since then. If we had even a below average defense in 2017 we definitely beat Georgia with a decent chance at beating Bama. Our offense was not the fucking problem and I don’t give a fuck if we were gifted a few points against Bama because of game flow, you don’t score 30+ points with an incompetent or paper tiger offense against Bama.

Stop being a little bitch. No Oklahoma fan is in here talking shit and hasn’t for years. You don’t think we know what we’ve been for years now? You don’t think we’re mpre disgusted with what the Stoops brother turned us into? Any human being with eyes knows Riley is probably the best offensive mind in college football, and by the way, his offense is only going to get better because now he’s finally pulling five star athletes regularly where he’s been working with three and four star athletes and an occasional five star largely before. You can have a stellar offense but if your defense can’t stop a wet paper bag, that shit ain’t gonna matter. And more importantly, you better have some shit in the trenches on both sides of the ball, and the Orange Bowl taught Riley that. You don’t win a fucking Joe Moore trophy with smoke and mirrors.

But go ahead and keep talking shit about victories on the tail end of a apathetic Stoops career that was marred with complacency and nepotism.