Current HOF players

[kburjr]

And TDs per year , yards per year , better postseason performances , an MVP and a SB appearance lol.

The HoF is stat driven OR you need to be truly transcendent talent wise . There's only 2 truly transcendent talents at QB in the league right now . Rodgers and Mahomes. Everyone else will cone down to accomplishments over a career

One season does not a QB make. Mahomes may end up great or maybe a flash in the pan. Need more data.

 

[rmilia1]

If you seriously think Ryan is on the level of Fouts or Marino, you are probably 12 years old and never saw those players play.

It doesn't matter what you or I think . Ryan will end his career with more yards than both , more TDs than Fouts , and just as many ( if not more ) SB appearances and MVPs than either . The HoF is largely a numbers game and no one ( at any position ) is going to end their career and enter their ballot period top 5 all time at their position and not get in. It's never happened . It will never happen

 

[rmilia1]

One season does not a QB make. Mahomes may end up great or maybe a flash in the pan. Need more data.

Sure thats fair. I'm just speaking to talent though

 

[Schmoopy1000]

It doesn't matter what you or I think . Ryan will end his career with more yards than both , more TDs than Fouts , and just as many ( if not more ) SB appearances and MVPs than either . The HoF is largely a numbers game and no one ( at any position ) is going to end their career and enter their ballot period top 5 all time at their position and not get in. It's never happened . It will never happen

You have had a decent argument with players close to Ryans time.
but for the love of God. Quit comparing Ryan to fouts & marino's #'s.
If they played now....... well 1st of all no one would touch marino's #'s ever.
If Ryan played in their eras. he wouldnt have came close to the #'s they had.

 

[richig07]

Even if that's true ( which it is ) finishing top 5 all time is still indicative of being top 2-3 in an era of great QBs. It'd be different if I was saying he was a lock now at top 12. I'm not saying that though

Well, first off... I would argue that Y/A and TD% is much more important than raw yardage and TD's when evaluating a players all-time status. Raw yardage is misleading. Ryan has thrown the ball an absolutely absurd amount. As mentioned, he's done so nearly as much as Rivers - despite Rivers having a 4 year head start.

Also, Brady, Peyton, Brees and Ben...? These guys played either the majority, half or nearly half of their careers in a different era. 2000's passing numbers were much more similar to 90's passing numbers than they are to the absurd spike we saw this decade. I always mark 2011 as the separating point. If you recall, that was the first year that saw big rule changes and led to 3 QB's hitting the 5K yardage plateau (Okay... Stafford had 4,997... lol got me there if you want to be stingy). Things seemed to change on a noticeable level that season and things have only become even more generous to QB numbers since that time.

Not to mention, Ryan's stay in the top 5 (if he gets there) will likely be short lived. As 5 years later - Wilson, Luck... among others will pass him. His career began at a convenient time. Right as the new era was about to be ushered in. He's a had a few great seasons, but nothing he's done has been "special". 2016 is about it for that department. Plenty of QB's with one fantastic, eye popping season *COUGH* Cam Newton.

Let me end by saying, we're not that far apart. I defended the hell out of him from the Dalton comparison. Ryan is a Super Bowl win away from HOF talk... but without it? He ain't there.

 

[rmilia1]

You have had a decent argument with players close to Ryans time.
but for the love of God. Quit comparing Ryan to fouts & marino's #'s.
If they played now....... well 1st of all no one would touch marino's #'s ever.
If Ryan played in their eras. he wouldnt have came close to the #'s they had.

Obviously but my point was in regards to titles/playoff results . Clearly eras are different but titles and personal accolades translate regardless

 

[rmilia1]

Well, first off... I would argue that Y/A and TD% is much more important than raw yardage and TD's when evaluating a players all-time status. Raw yardage is misleading. Ryan has thrown the ball an absolutely absurd amount. As mentioned, he's done so nearly as much as Rivers - despite Rivers having a 4 year head start.

Also, Brady, Peyton, Brees and Ben...? These guys played either the majority, half or nearly half of their careers in a different era. 2000's passing numbers were much more similar to 90's passing numbers than they are to the absurd spike we saw this decade. I always mark 2011 as the separating point. If you recall, that was the first year that saw big rule changes and led to 3 QB's hitting the 5K yardage plateau (Okay... Stafford had 4,997... lol got me there if you want to be stingy). Things seemed to change on a noticeable level that season and things have only become even more generous to QB numbers since that time.

Not to mention, Ryan's stay in the top 5 (if he gets there) will likely be short lived. As 5 years later - Wilson, Luck... among others will pass him. His career began at a convenient time. Right as the new era was about to be ushered in. He's a had a few great seasons, but nothing he's done has been "special". 2016 is about it for that department. Plenty of QB's with one fantastic, eye popping season *COUGH* Cam Newton.

Let me end by saying, we're not that far apart. I defended the hell out of him from the Dalton comparison. Ryan is a Super Bowl win away from HOF talk... but without it? He ain't there.

I don't disagree and I've never said Ryan was better than Rivers or more talented . However the HoF looks at all numbers and historically has rewarded people with great raw numbers over their career which Ryan will almost assuredly have .

Once again there's NEVER been a guy in the top 5 of any skill position raw numbers in ANY sport that didn't get into the HoF ( save the proven cheats in baseball )

I'm not suggesting Ryan is awesome or even elite . I'm starting his numbers will be and that has ( 100% of the time ) been good enough

 

[rmilia1]

Well, first off... I would argue that Y/A and TD% is much more important than raw yardage and TD's when evaluating a players all-time status. Raw yardage is misleading. Ryan has thrown the ball an absolutely absurd amount. As mentioned, he's done so nearly as much as Rivers - despite Rivers having a 4 year head start.

Also, Brady, Peyton, Brees and Ben...? These guys played either the majority, half or nearly half of their careers in a different era. 2000's passing numbers were much more similar to 90's passing numbers than they are to the absurd spike we saw this decade. I always mark 2011 as the separating point. If you recall, that was the first year that saw big rule changes and led to 3 QB's hitting the 5K yardage plateau (Okay... Stafford had 4,997... lol got me there if you want to be stingy). Things seemed to change on a noticeable level that season and things have only become even more generous to QB numbers since that time.

Not to mention, Ryan's stay in the top 5 (if he gets there) will likely be short lived. As 5 years later - Wilson, Luck... among others will pass him. His career began at a convenient time. Right as the new era was about to be ushered in. He's a had a few great seasons, but nothing he's done has been "special". 2016 is about it for that department. Plenty of QB's with one fantastic, eye popping season *COUGH* Cam Newton.

Let me end by saying, we're not that far apart. I defended the hell out of him from the Dalton comparison. Ryan is a Super Bowl win away from HOF talk... but without it? He ain't there.

Also it's doubtful Luck or Wilson pass Ryan before his 3rd or 4th year on the ballot as they're both 4 years younger , Wilson doesnt average the same type of numbers thus far and Luck has been injured to the point he's basically 6 years behind . They may both eventually pass him if they stay healthy the rest of the way but it's doubtful it'd happen sooner than his 3td or 4th year on the ballot

 

[richig07]

I don't disagree and I've never said Ryan was better than Rivers or more talented . However the HoF looks at all numbers and historically has rewarded people with great raw numbers over their career which Ryan will almost assuredly have .

Once again there's NEVER been a guy in the top 5 of any skill position raw numbers in ANY sport that didn't get into the HoF ( save the proven cheats in baseball )

I'm not suggesting Ryan is awesome or even elite . I'm starting his numbers will be and that has ( 100% of the time ) been good enough

Except I've already explained why football is different than other sports. Not only do I think it will be hard for Ryan to finish top 5 all-time. If he did? It would make him 5th among players with which he played along side of. Ben, Eli and Rivers could all easily finish ahead of him as well. While passing Marino is hardly a given.

If Ryan finishes 7th or 8th all-time in yardage... he'll also finish 7th or 8th among QB's that played during his time period? Is that really so impressive? How much less impressive will it be when it only lasts a few years? Then by the time his hall of fame eligibility comes around he's like 10th all-time and 9th or 10th among players whom he played along side of?

Did Eli's regular season/statistical prowess ever strike you in an impressive manner? Does that make him a hall of famer on it's own merit? Because he could easily retire top 5 in yardage and very high in other QB statistical categories. Possibly top 5... I don't know - I would have to research more and I'm already getting tired of googling. lol

11 of the 20 all-time passing leaders have played in 2011 and beyond. 14 of 20 played into the mid-00's. What does that tell you?

This era of football is its own thing man. Nothing from prior generations applies.

If he wins a SB after another great season - he's in. If not? He'll be on the ballot for a while and debates will be had. However, I just don't see him getting in. Sucks the team blew the game vs New England.

 

[rmilia1]

Except I've already explained why football is different than other sports. Not only do I think it will be hard for Ryan to finish top 5 all-time. If he did? It would make him 5th among players with which he played along side of. Ben, Eli and Rivers could all easily finish ahead of him as well. While passing Marino is hardly a given.

If Ryan finishes 7th or 8th all-time in yardage... he'll also finish 7th or 8th among QB's that played during his time period? Is that really so impressive? How much less impressive will it be when it only lasts a few years? Then by the time his hall of fame eligibility comes around he's like 10th all-time and 9th or 10th among players whom he played along side of?

Did Eli's regular season/statistical prowess ever strike you in an impressive manner? Does that make him a hall of famer on it's own merit? Because he could easily retire top 5 in yardage and very high in other QB statistical categories. Possibly top 5... I don't know - I would have to research more and I'm already getting tired of googling. lol

11 of the 20 all-time passing leaders have played in 2011 and beyond. 14 of 20 played into the mid-00's. What does that tell you?

This era of football is its own thing man. Nothing from prior generations applies.

The only way Ben, Eli and Rivers finish ahead of him ( given age ) I'd if he retires early or suffer's a career ending injury on which case this argument is moot as I never stated he's currently a hall of famer . Looking at the raw numbers if he gets to 5th in both ( likely if he stays healthy ) he will only be behind Brees and Brady in this iteration of football rules and only behind the same 2 in TDs. It's highly unlikely Ben, Rivers , Eli or Rodgers finishes ahead of him in either category assuming health. So basically he'd have the 3rd best raw stats of the "offensive " era in the NFL . Thats not stating talent . Just numbers . But numbers speak . Obviously things could change . He could blow out a knee and be done , he could win the next 2 Mvps and a SB and be a lock . I'm just basing this argiment on current trajectory

 

[Stomp]

yeah they love qbs but with ben, rodgers, brady, brees, and probably eli in, they arent gonna take 6 from the same era.........they never do

No love for Peyton?

 

[rmilia1]

No love for Peyton?

Peyton is in but he's not the same era as Rodgers , Ben, Eli or Rivers either . You could argue Brees and Brady

 

[broncosmitty]

Peyton is in but he's not the same era as Rodgers , Ben, Eli or Rivers either . You could argue Brees and Brady

Didn't he enter the league like 5 years before those guys?


He's the same era to me anyways.

 

[Nosferatu]

99% is all but one or two guys.

Warner and Favre are already in. Brady, Rodgers, Brees are without question better QBs. I'd take Ben well ahead, same with Wilson.


Rivers is somewhere near Romo for me. Very good, not among the greats.

There are 26 HOFs at his position. His odds are very, very slim.

I can't agree Brees is better than Favre, just my

 

[rmilia1]

Didn't he enter the league like 5 years before those guys?


He's the same era to me anyways.

6. This year will be 21 years since his first and the 10th ( or more in Rodgers case ) that that group ( Peyton ,Ben, Eli, Rivers , Rodgers ) didn't all play at the same time . That's a lot to be considered on the same era . If half plus of your careers don't overlap I wouldn't call it such anyway but eras are subjective ( as obvious in this thread lol )

 

[Stomp]

6. This year will be 21 years since his first and the 10th ( or more in Rodgers case ) that that group ( Peyton ,Ben, Eli, Rivers , Rodgers ) didn't all play at the same time . That's a lot to be considered on the same era . If half plus of your careers don't overlap I wouldn't call it such anyway but eras are subjective ( as obvious in this thread lol )

Not really sure what you are trying to say here, but all those guys played at least half their careers with Peyton

Aaron 11 out of 14
Eli, Ben, and Philip 12 out of 15
Drew 15 out of 18
Tom 16 out of 19

 

[broncosmitty]

I can't agree Brees is better than Favre, just my

I meant Brady, Brees and Arodge are better than Phil.

 

[broncosmitty]

6. This year will be 21 years since his first and the 10th ( or more in Rodgers case ) that that group ( Peyton ,Ben, Eli, Rivers , Rodgers ) didn't all play at the same time . That's a lot to be considered on the same era . If half plus of your careers don't overlap I wouldn't call it such anyway but eras are subjective ( as obvious in this thread lol )

It is completely subjective.


Just don't know when the cutoff would be to seperate.

To me, PM sortve ushered in his own era. The young QBs(Mahomes, Goff, Wentz, Mayfield, etc.) I consider a new era. And the oldies being remnants of the last one.

 

[rmilia1]

Not really sure what you are trying to say here, but all those guys played at least half their careers with Peyton

Aaron 11 out of 14
Eli, Ben, and Philip 12 out of 15
Drew 15 out of 18
Tom 16 out of 19

You're using the wrong frame of reference . Manning is the frame as he's the subject . So he played 6 years before Ben, Eli , Rivers and 7 before Rodgers. They've all played 3 ( soon to be 4 since he left ) that means in the 21 years since he was drafted those 4 guys will not have played at the sane time as him in 10+ of those years.

This is why it's beneficial to set a clear delineating point when discussing "eras"

Like if you consider Rodgers to be the best in his era and you're including Peyton then ( logically ) you need to include this drafted 7 years after him as well which means your "era" includes Peyton and Russell Wilson as being in the same discussion which I'd clearly not accurate as they were drafted 14 years apart .

 

[rmilia1]

It is completely subjective.


Just don't know when the cutoff would be to seperate.

To me, PM sortve ushered in his own era. The young QBs(Mahomes, Goff, Wentz, Mayfield, etc.) I consider a new era. And the oldies being remnants of the last one.

Honestly a lot of it is recency bias. If you're 20 and have been watching football for 15 years your perception of eras is different than if you're 50 and have been watching for 45 years.

That's why the "era " talk is a red herring . Without a set point of reference time wise you end up with guys thinking dudes drafted 15 years apart are from the same era