Jim-ME Butler = Chemistry killer...I told you so.

[trojanfan12]

Like I said we view success differently, it's all fancy and stuff that he's a 4 time all star and all that other stuff but how many rings does he have? How many teams has he lead to the Finals. All the personal awards don't mean a fucking thing if you don't WIN!

How many rings does he have is the oldest, most over used nonsense going. It's what people use when they have nothing else to back their point. You understand that teams win titles and you need a roster that has the talent to win one, right?

Just because a player hasn't been on a team that is good enough to win a title, doesn't mean he hasn't has success in the league and isn't a great player or a player that should be listened to by young players who truly haven't accomplished anything in the league.

The funny thing is that, with Townes and Wiggins, the Wolves could very well have a contending roster, but they don't want to listen or put in the work.

The funnier thing is, you and other Wolves fans are backing them. Which is why the Wolves won't be winning any titles any time soon.

 

[LAD]

Jimmy was barely recruited out of HS. Went to Ju-Co, then went to Marquette where he wasn't even the best guy on the team. Got drafted in the end of the 1st round and then worked his ass off to get where he is. He doesn't have the natural talent of half of the league, but one summer he locked himself in the gym. He shut off his internet and cable so all he did was eat, sleep and hoop. If he got bored, he went back to the gym.

For a guy who's had to work like that to get where he is, you can see his frustration when guys who have way more talent than he has, work 1/4 as hard. His words should actually hold more weight than guys like MJ and Kobe because you can see what you can accomplish by work ethic and mentality.

I would say to some degree every guy in the league at some point had to put in hard work to "make it". But what matters most when you get there? Winning. And Butler has done none of that. So, I get that his teammates aren't responding to his rants. I think more than anything else what this situation points out is that Butler isn't quite a leader yet either .

 

[LAD]

Your boss comes to you and says, "hey we want you to keep working hard, but we're not going to give you any more raises. We've given the raises to these other guys that don't work nearly as hard as you do, but we like them better."

You don't think you'd want a better situation?

Yes. And most people make the decision to leave quietly. Why does he think this will end well for him? You don't antagonize your employer & then expect them to kneel down to you. How did that work out for Shaq? And he was a MUCH better asset than Butler in every sense.

 

[trojanfan12]

Look, I get all that. I just never believed it work out, with the personalities. Butler was forcing square peg in a round hole. Good for some wins.... not much else.

Very few people learn from others getting up in their grill.

Do we know that is how he did things from day 1?

I seriously doubt that he just walked in and started pushing everyone around. I'd be willing to bet that Wiggins and Townes not giving a shit and not being willing to put in the work has been going on since he got there and he got tired of it.

 

[Nosferatu]

How many rings does he have is the oldest, most over used nonsense going. It's what people use when they have nothing else to back their point. You understand that teams win titles and you need a roster that has the talent to win one, right?

I've proved my point clearly, you just don't agree with it. Can we still be friends? Here I got this for you...

 

[LAD]

I don't know how everyone else feels.

But, I find myself liking Jimmy more after all this.

He's right.

Wiggins is dogging it.

Both he and KAT are soft.

With that being said, you side with the younger guy every time.

KAT is the future and they are stuck with Wiggins.

So, Jimmy has to go.

He's almost 30.

Yes, he is a top 5 two way player.

But, he's not a #1.

You don't pay your #2 option 40 plus mil per to be a 1st or 2nd round knockout.

I don't even think KAT has the alpha male gene in him. Matter of fact IMO he's 1 foot out of the closet.

 

[Yo Tee]

Um, who here thought they actually had a chance at winning a title?? lol

Noone said they currently did. But if within 1 year they have a 14 win turnaround, imagine keeping Butler, consistently improving and maybe in the future, being a spot for free agents to jump to instead of Golden State, Houston or LA. If things were good between Minnesota and Butler, the T-Wolves would flourish, in my opinion.

 

[LAD]

Key word is most. Most of them work hard.

Here's the thing though, some don't and some don't work as hard as others. The Wolves, particularly Wiggins and Townes, don't always work hard during games or apparently in the off-season and none of them work as hard as Butler.

Also just because he "hasn't won anything" doesn't mean he hasn't had success in the league and shouldn't be listened to. Especially when it's young guys who have accomplished exactly nothing in their careers and who haven't really improved much since they came into the league.

I don't necessarily agree with how he has chosen to make his point, but he has definitely earned the right to make it.

I think it is human nature to look at the next guy who has exactly the same accomplishments as your self as equal. Having said that, why should they listen to him?

 

[trojanfan12]

I've proved my point clearly, you just don't agree with it. Can we still be friends? Here I got this for you...

As I did mine.

You can go ahead and keep that trophy, that's all your team will getting for the foreseeable future.

I'm fine with the 16 of these that the Lakers have for me to look at:

 

[LAD]

Rings aren't solely what determines a players success. There are a lot of guys in the HoF who don't have rings and a lot of guys not in the HoF that do.

Much of what determines whether a player wins any rings is out of his control.

However, how good a player he becomes and developing his game to maximize his talent is within his control. Jimmy Butler has done the work to be an multi time all star and be one of the top 10-15 players in the league.

What work have Wiggins and Townes done to show that they don't think they need to listen to an multiple time all star?

All good points. But I think Butler just needs to understand his audience. And clearly making the FO feel like crap usually doesn't end well.

 

[LAD]

Noone said they currently did. But if within 1 year they have a 14 win turnaround, imagine keeping Butler, consistently improving and maybe in the future, being a spot for free agents to jump to instead of Golden State, Houston or LA. If things were good between Minnesota and Butler, the T-Wolves would flourish, in my opinion.

Well for the 14 win turnaround to happen more than keeping Butler has to happen. They need to get rid of Thibbs. IMO his old skool coaching ways haven't caught up to the modern league. And because of that he's actually stunting the growth of his players. Tell me this. KAT is a hard cover for 90% of defenses in the paint. So why, why I ask does Thibbs run plays for him that have him running out to the 3 pt line shooting jumpers? I can't tell you how many times last post season we saw that happen; even in cases when KAT had a clear basket in the paint. KAT & Wiggins need direction - that needs to come from the coach & NOT Butler.

 

[trojanfan12]

I think it is human nature to look at the next guy who has exactly the same accomplishments as your self as equal. Having said that, why should they listen to him?

They don't have the exact same accomplishments as Butler.

Smart players are willing to learn from anyone they can.

Just the fact that he is a better player than either of them and the fact that he has been in the league longer and is one of the top 10-15 players in the league should be enough for them to listen to him.

Add to that the fact that he's a 4 time all star, has made all NBA teams twice and NBA all defensive teams 4 times and won most improved player just adds to the reasons they should listen to him.

What have Wiggins and KAT accomplished that they shouldn't listen to him?

 

[trojanfan12]

All good points. But I think Butler just needs to understand his audience. And clearly making the FO feel like crap usually doesn't end well.

You have that backwards. Butler's audience needs to grow the fuck up and listen to someone who has actually been in the league and can teach them some things.

Again, how do we know that Butler just came in and started pushing people around? The guy didn't just get there this off-season.

It looks to me like this is something that has been building and that Butler has grown increasingly frustrated with guys who think they already have it all figured out.

 

[LAD]

They don't have the exact same accomplishments as Butler.

Smart players are willing to learn from anyone they can.

Just the fact that he is a better player than either of them and the fact that he has been in the league longer and is one of the top 10-15 players in the league should be enough for them to listen to him.

Add to that the fact that he's a 4 time all star, has made all NBA teams twice and NBA all defensive teams 4 times and won most improved player just adds to the reasons they should listen to him.

What have Wiggins and KAT accomplished that they shouldn't listen to him?

I get all of his individual accomplishments - but if I'm them I'm wondering what that has gotten them in terms of the overall goal of winning. That's my point.

Also, you really think Butler is a top 10-15 player right now?

 

[LAD]

You have that backwards. Butler's audience needs to grow the fuck up and listen to someone who has actually been in the league and can teach them some things.

Again, how do we know that Butler just came in and started pushing people around? The guy didn't just get there this off-season.

It looks to me like this is something that has been building and that Butler has grown increasingly frustrated with guys who think they already have it all figured out.

No, no. You missed the point. If they're immature & still need to grow he should understand that & try to reach them a different way. It's what professionals do when they're trying to "teach". This is one of the reasons I say Butler isn't quite a leader yet.

 

[Win TWINS!!!]

Do we know that is how he did things from day 1?

I seriously doubt that he just walked in and started pushing everyone around. I'd be willing to bet that Wiggins and Townes not giving a shit and not being willing to put in the work has been going on since he got there and he got tired of it.

Is there really any proof of any of that? Or is that shit that was leaked by the Butler camp, when the wheels came off while he was out with his injury last spring? Come on...! Think for a moment.

Nevermind, that going into last year, they had depth concerns. Add in Thibs' minutes for starters... and yeah, being shorthanded in March/April is gonna hamper most teams.


There've been articles about Townes offseason workouts the past 3 years. He's still only 22.... 21 when Butler arrived. Wiggins was only 22... so yeah - he was probably abrasive from the get go. It's who he is.

 

[tlance]

Like I said we view success differently, it's all fancy and stuff that he's a 4 time all star and all that other stuff but how many rings does he have? How many teams has he lead to the Finals. All the personal awards don't mean a fucking thing if you don't WIN!

I mean yes and no.

When, exactly, has Jimmy Butler ever been on a team with anywhere the talent to win a title? Maybe a couple of those Bulls teams before he was a star. But, championships aren't won by individuals. And, if prime Michael Jordan were on this team, you can bet on 2 things:

1) the Wolves would not win a title
2) although he wouldn't do it as publically, he would go at Townes' and Wiggins' throats A lot harder than Jimmy ever has.

 

[Win TWINS!!!]

I don't even think KAT has the alpha male gene in him. Matter of fact IMO he's 1 foot out of the closet.

 

[Nosferatu]

As I did mine.

You can go ahead and keep that trophy, that's all your team will getting for the foreseeable future.

I'm with the 16 of these that the Lakers have for me to look at:

View attachment 188690

Honestly you didn't prove anything. Butler has not earned the right to get in their faces, it's ridiculous to think he has after 59 games and a first round exit. Just because he's been an all star a few times doesn't mean shit. Now if he had been on the Wolves for years and had suffered through the losing and still had that same attitude then yes, he's earned that right but you don't come to a team and in your first year rip the players in front of the world and expect to be listened to. That's complete nonsense.

lolzzz the team you root for is more accomplished than the team I root for, congrats. You sure you don't want that trophy you seem to be a little flustered.

Oh and some of them belong to Minneapolis dammit! lolzzz

 

[Nosferatu]

although he wouldn't do it as publically

And bingo was his name-o!