What is the Value of Winning Free Agency?

[old1r1sh]

The Oakland Raiders have made several moves this off-season to improve their team, more specifically their defense. Signing the likes of Bruce Irvin and Reggie Nelson has seemingly propelled the Raiders into the top tier of the league.

My question is, what does free agency actually do for you? When I think of teams "winning" free agency, I think of the Eagles from a few years ago. The "Dream Team" Eagles that won the off-season and built up a bunch of hype going into the 2011 season managed to finish 8-8 and miss the playoffs.

I'm not saying that the Raiders will emulate the '11 Eagles. I'm a big fan of Derek Carr and that offense. I'm just wondering, what tends to happen to teams who make a lot of high profile moves in free agency? What's the most effective philosophy when it comes to player acquisition? Should the Raiders be considered a top-tier team as of now?

 

[Brees#1]

Only NE and Denver have successfully loaded up on FA recently and that was due to who the QBs were. If anyone else I have not seen it pay off. It's about chemistry first of all and having someone that can get these signings to play day 1. The eagles offense was overrated in 2011 and Vick was being figured out late in the 2010 season. The defense was not a fit for Nnamdi also however. But sometimes having too many players on a team when you have no clear leader to help them gel usually does not work out. And Carr is too young to take on that role.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

The only thing winning FA gets you is the fact you know what you're getting. The draft is a crap shoot. Year after year first rounders end up being busts. Yet late round selections and UDFA go on to have outstanding careers. Go figure.

Even though in FA you're bringing in a "known" quantity there is still no guarentee that player will work well in your system. You hope you buy low and get a treasure?

No Oakland is not a top tier team but will challenge for the division. They still have the draft to improve even more. Definitely trending upward.

 

[night]

The only thing winning FA gets you is the fact you know what you're getting. The draft is a crap shoot. Year after year first rounders end up being busts. Yet late round selections and UDFA go on to have outstanding careers. Go figure.

Even though in FA you're bringing in a "known" quantity there is still no guarentee that player will work well in your system. You hope you buy low and get a treasure?

No Oakland is not a top tier team but will challenge for the division. They still have the draft to improve even more. Definitely trending upward.

"Winning free agency" rarely brings a whole lot of value. Name a team who spent a boatload of money on free agency who did anything recently. Sexy free agency additions bringing value to the franchise aren't a given. I don't want to say that it is rare but it is usually less than what most people expect.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

"Winning free agency" rarely brings a whole lot of value. Name a team who spent a boatload of money on free agency who did anything recently. Sexy free agency additions bringing value to the franchise aren't a given. I don't want to say that it is rare but it is usually less than what most people expect.

I don't think teams need to spend a boatload to win FA. Actually it's just the opposite. The true value of FA shouldn't stop at the start of the season. If you sell the farm and don't hit you may be stuck with some unfriendly contracts.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

They showed a stat where teams that spend big in free agency don't really have huge success.... I think some of that might be human nature, some of these guy's sign HUGE contracts and then might not put out the same effort chasing that money like before...

 

[jarntt]

The Oakland Raiders have made several moves this off-season to improve their team, more specifically their defense. Signing the likes of Bruce Irvin and Reggie Nelson has seemingly propelled the Raiders into the top tier of the league.

 

[Arizona_Sting]

You feel good about yourselves, maybe pat yourselves on the back… then realize that "winning" free agency rarely means much.

 

[Duffman]

It's just another thing Raider fans will tell themselves when they finish below .500 again. At least they won free agency.

 

[Davis_Mike]

If you are an established playoff team, then "winning" free agency might mean something. There is a reason why most teams "winning" free agency have all that money spend.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Winning FA to me means supplementing your current core with pieces that can reasonably transition to the system(s?) you are running. Maclin for instance was able to transition into Reid's offense just fine because its core concepts remained unchanged from when Maclin himself played into it. What FA should not be used for is trying to add core players with few exceptions.

For example, if Sean Smith who has had most of his success in specifically press man coverage with significant safety help in 2014 and 2015 all of the sudden goes to a team with off man/zone principles in Oakland, doesn't that insert a huge risk factor right there?

 

[MIKE75]

I do know that Washington would spend a bunch in free agency every year including one year 2009 where they gave Albert Haynesworth a 100 million contract and it never helped them win. Philadelphia in 2011 brought in QB Vince Young,Nnamdi Asomugha,etc. didn't work. Indy bringing in Frank Gore and Andre Johnson did not work. Miami last year bringing in players like Suh for big money and that didnt work either......


The one team i think made some killer moves that could put them over the hump is Jacksonville. They were top ten in pass offense last year. They brought in RB Chris Ivory to carry the load with rookie TJ Yeldon those two together will be hard to stop then on defense they brought in safety Tashaun Gipson,defensive ends Malik Jackson and Jared Odrick,corner Prince Amukamara along with Dante Fowler and Senderrick Marks coming back from injury.

I think Jax can win the AFC south in 2016.

Another team i think is wise that did not used to be is Oakland. The Raiders brought in WR Michael Crabtree in free agency last year and it paid off,they are also rebuilding their offense line with RG Kelechi Osemele,C Rodney Hudson,LT Donald Penn all recently signed as free agents. On defense LB Bruce Irvin,CB Sean Smith,CB David Amerson,S Nate Allen.

Derek Carr has thrown more TD's to start his career than any other QB ever besides Dan Marino. I think Oakland has a good shot to win the AFC west.

Both Oakland and Jax are no longer pushovers in the division basement both these teams will win in '16

 

[Broncos6482]

Well a lot of people said Denver "won" free agency in 2014 with the signings of TJ Ward, Demarcus Ware, and Aqib Talib. And all 3 of those guys were key contributors on this year's Super Bowl team.

But generally, teams that win free agency are teams that have a lot of cap space, and those teams generally aren't that good.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

The Oakland Raiders have made several moves this off-season to improve their team, more specifically their defense. Signing the likes of Bruce Irvin and Reggie Nelson has seemingly propelled the Raiders into the top tier of the league.

My question is, what does free agency actually do for you? When I think of teams "winning" free agency, I think of the Eagles from a few years ago. The "Dream Team" Eagles that won the off-season and built up a bunch of hype going into the 2011 season managed to finish 8-8 and miss the playoffs.

I'm not saying that the Raiders will emulate the '11 Eagles. I'm a big fan of Derek Carr and that offense. I'm just wondering, what tends to happen to teams who make a lot of high profile moves in free agency? What's the most effective philosophy when it comes to player acquisition? Should the Raiders be considered a top-tier team as of now?

I think it varies for each team. NE got to the SB with the FA investment they made on the backend of their DEF LY. In the case of OAK...they've been bad for a while now, so they have a fair amount to top draft talent on the team...winning FA means they are probably not looking to start whomever they take in the 1st rd unless they just shine and beat somebody out. Secondly...these vets they got probably equate to 1 to 2 more wins over LY...and build from there.

 

[dkmightyhammer]

I won't speak for other teams but the Seahawks have both won and lost in FA recently. Big loss with the Percy Harvin deal, but huge wins when they acquired Avril and Bennett. I think you could argue that without picking up those two in FA Seattle probably still doesn't have a title.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

I do know that Washington would spend a bunch in free agency every year including one year 2009 where they gave Albert Haynesworth a 100 million contract and it never helped them win. Philadelphia in 2011 brought in QB Vince Young,Nnamdi Asomugha,etc. didn't work. Indy bringing in Frank Gore and Andre Johnson did not work. Miami last year bringing in players like Suh for big money and that didnt work either......


The one team i think made some killer moves that could put them over the hump is Jacksonville. They were top ten in pass offense last year. They brought in RB Chris Ivory to carry the load with rookie TJ Yeldon those two together will be hard to stop then on defense they brought in safety Tashaun Gipson,defensive ends Malik Jackson and Jared Odrick,corner Prince Amukamara along with Dante Fowler and Senderrick Marks coming back from injury.

I think Jax can win the AFC south in 2016.

Another team i think is wise that did not used to be is Oakland. The Raiders brought in WR Michael Crabtree in free agency last year and it paid off,they are also rebuilding their offense line with RG Kelechi Osemele,C Rodney Hudson,LT Donald Penn all recently signed as free agents. On defense LB Bruce Irvin,CB Sean Smith,CB David Amerson,S Nate Allen.

Derek Carr has thrown more TD's to start his career than any other QB ever besides Dan Marino. I think Oakland has a good shot to win the AFC west.

Both Oakland and Jax are no longer pushovers in the division basement both these teams will win in '16

Agree on what Jax did this off-season. But winning the AFCS isn't a measuring stick. My HS team could win that division.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

I do know that Washington would spend a bunch in free agency every year including one year 2009 where they gave Albert Haynesworth a 100 million contract and it never helped them win. Philadelphia in 2011 brought in QB Vince Young,Nnamdi Asomugha,etc. didn't work. Indy bringing in Frank Gore and Andre Johnson did not work. Miami last year bringing in players like Suh for big money and that didnt work either......


The one team i think made some killer moves that could put them over the hump is Jacksonville. They were top ten in pass offense last year. They brought in RB Chris Ivory to carry the load with rookie TJ Yeldon those two together will be hard to stop then on defense they brought in safety Tashaun Gipson,defensive ends Malik Jackson and Jared Odrick,corner Prince Amukamara along with Dante Fowler and Senderrick Marks coming back from injury.

I think Jax can win the AFC south in 2016.

Another team i think is wise that did not used to be is Oakland. The Raiders brought in WR Michael Crabtree in free agency last year and it paid off,they are also rebuilding their offense line with RG Kelechi Osemele,C Rodney Hudson,LT Donald Penn all recently signed as free agents. On defense LB Bruce Irvin,CB Sean Smith,CB David Amerson,S Nate Allen.

Derek Carr has thrown more TD's to start his career than any other QB ever besides Dan Marino. I think Oakland has a good shot to win the AFC west.

Both Oakland and Jax are no longer pushovers in the division basement both these teams will win in '16

I think JAX is poised to make a big run up as well, but I think it take more than one year to go from a 5 win team to a 9 or 10 win team, but they have a good chance to prove my theory wrong.

When you start breaking down the Jags...They need a big time playmaker on DEF...Malik Jackson is a good player, but idk if he's a difference maker...in their scheme I think they plan on playing him inside...that's a potential big over payment. Odrick is solid. They need Fowler to play like a 2nd yr top 5 pick...not a rookie coming off a missed 1st season....getting a guy like Bosa or a Buckner on the other side of Fowler or a LB like Jack can go a long way towards DIV champions...I think they are 2 yrs away from being a playoff team that can win in the playoffs, but AFCS...maybe they can, but I doubt it for '16.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Depends on how you define "Winning" free agency.

Is it the high-profile, bigger money guys? Or is it the guys who may fly a bit lower on the radar, but are better organizational fits for the team?

Recently, the teams spending a lot have had very little to show in the way of return. Denver spent a good chunk, but outside of them....not many teams have fared well in dumping big money at player(s) feet.

Personally, I'm more of the second tier guys that fit better. Just because someone was a stud with team A doesn't always mean they will do the same things with team B. Too many Free Agents chase the money, and eschew scheme/fit and then wonder why 2 years later, they've been cut and look nothing like the player they were just a few seasons ago.

 

[cdumler7]

As others have said this is more about fit than about getting the high profile names. To me most of the time the guys who are making it to FA are not considered the core players of a team. Otherwise the team they are on would push much harder to re-sign them instead of letting them get to FA. Throw in then the high profile names are getting grossly overpaid. An example for the Raiders is they are paying Kelechi Osemele $11.7 million a year to play LG. Now he is a good/great player but is he really $3.7 million more per year than the next best LG in the NFL? I would venture to say no.

I guess for me I am not as high on the Raiders off season. Even though I did just use the Osemele signing as an example I do actually like the player. I really like the Raiders OL but I am not a fan of some of the defensive players they signed. Bruce Irvin stopped being used as a pass rusher for the most part in Seattle because they realized he just didn't have the skill set to do it well. They started dropping him off into coverage more and more. So then Oakland signs him as a pass rusher for pretty big money? Or as Moose pointed out above the signing of Sean Smith when the type of defense that the Raiders play is not even close to what the Chiefs play. Doesn't mean he can't do it but to me that is where you get caught up more in the name than how the player actually fits.

 

[Cincyfan78]

As others have said this is more about fit than about getting the high profile names. To me most of the time the guys who are making it to FA are not considered the core players of a team. Otherwise the team they are on would push much harder to re-sign them instead of letting them get to FA. Throw in then the high profile names are getting grossly overpaid. An example for the Raiders is they are paying Kelechi Osemele $11.7 million a year to play LG. Now he is a good/great player but is he really $3.7 million more per year than the next best LG in the NFL? I would venture to say no.

I guess for me I am not as high on the Raiders off season. Even though I did just use the Osemele signing as an example I do actually like the player. I really like the Raiders OL but I am not a fan of some of the defensive players they signed. Bruce Irvin stopped being used as a pass rusher for the most part in Seattle because they realized he just didn't have the skill set to do it well. They started dropping him off into coverage more and more. So then Oakland signs him as a pass rusher for pretty big money? Or as Moose pointed out above the signing of Sean Smith when the type of defense that the Raiders play is not even close to what the Chiefs play. Doesn't mean he can't do it but to me that is where you get caught up more in the name than how the player actually fits.

And I like Reggie Nelson, but I highly doubt he comes all that close to replicating his INT's from last season. Many of them were right place/right time kind of INT's rather than great plays/read on the WR/Ball.