What about Josh Allen?

[Chief Cola]

Besides Allen, the Bills just keep getting better all around. That's good coaching.

 

[SteelersPride]

Besides Allen, the Bills just keep getting better all around. That's good coaching.

ESPN had a blip about one of their assistants and his work With Allen, making him a hot HC commodity

 

[Chief Cola]

ESPN had a blip about one of their assistants and his work With Allen, making him a hot HC commodity

Ya normally I don't see accuracy being something you can fix but they did it. Every season he's improved his completion % in big chunks and not just in safe throws.

The way the Bills stuck with Allen and adapted the playcalling when everybody else plays musical QBs(Tua, Trubisky, etc etc) says alot about the team's management.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Well, you apparently got that wrong. LMFAO

Bills fans really pretending like Josh Allen wasn't garbage at football until this year.

 

[SteelersPride]

Ya normally I don't see accuracy being something you can fix but they did it. Every season he's improved his completion % in big chunks and not just in safe throws.

The way the Bills stuck with Allen and adapted the playcalling when everybody else plays musical QBs(Tua, Trubisky, etc etc) says alot about the team's management.

It’s not.... some guys improve mildly.... but with the exception of a small handful of guys, they don’t. Sure u can name 5 -6 guys that have.... but can name 100 that don’t. It’s greatly the exception to the norm. A lot of ppl argue that you can fix that! And you can fix this! Most of the time you can’t. The numbers back that up. Big time...but again. Kudos to Allen and the bills staff for this. Truly remarkabke

 

[MilkSpiller22]

It’s not.... some guys improve mildly.... but with the exception of a small handful of guys, they don’t. Sure u can name 5 -6 guys that have.... but can name 100 that don’t. It’s greatly the exception to the norm. A lot of ppl argue that you can fix that! And you can fix this! Most of the time you can’t. The numbers back that up. Big time...but again. Kudos to Allen and the bills staff for this. Truly remarkabke

do the numbers support that?? I don't think they do, I think the numbers support being a starting QB is tough, and most fail... If you look up any failing QB, there will be plenty of red flags... But lets not act like QBs that find success had no red flags either...

point is, anything can be taught to the right person... and there is really no correlation between anyone who finds it or not... if anything the correlation is that they had opportunity, for the right team at the right time...

 

[SteelersPride]

do the numbers support that?? I don't think they do, I think the numbers support being a starting QB is tough, and most fail... If you look up any failing QB, there will be plenty of red flags... But lets not act like QBs that find success had no red flags either...

point is, anything can be taught to the right person... and there is really no correlation between anyone who finds it or not... if anything the correlation is that they had opportunity, for the right team at the right time...

the numbers do support that, big time. Im not gonna dig up the info, i have in the past, Its out there, im not gonna argue it again, in a thread about the guy who beat the odds, again, kudos to him and the coaching staff.......but yes, they definitely support it. Yes, there is a correlation, and the numbers have supported it. Inaccurate qb's generally stay inaccurate.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

the numbers do support that, big time. Im not gonna dig up the info, i have in the past, Its out there, im not gonna argue it again, in a thread about the guy who beat the odds, again, kudos to him and the coaching staff.......but yes, they definitely support it. Yes, there is a correlation, and the numbers have supported it. Inaccurate qb's generally stay inaccurate.

you missed my point.... of course inaccurate QBs generally remain inaccurate... but taking numbers to support that is foolish, because the majority of prospects fail... especially QBs...

it is just very easy to use a red flag about drafting someone as the excuse for them to not have success... but it is not necessarily true... chances are they were just not good enough anyway...


so, the real question is how many QBs came into the league with accuracy questions, and were good enough to be given a chance to improve their accuracy??

 

[SteelersPride]

you missed my point.... of course inaccurate QBs generally remain inaccurate... but taking numbers to support that is foolish, because the majority of prospects fail... especially QBs...

it is just very easy to use a red flag about drafting someone as the excuse for them to not have success... but it is not necessarily true... chances are they were just not good enough anyway...


so, the real question is how many QBs came into the league with accuracy questions, and were good enough to be given a chance to improve their accuracy??

its not foolish. Its the biggest indicator of success at the next level. Its also the biggest indicator for hit rates amongst mid round qb draft picks, whether that be as a starter or back up........the metrics fully back it.......

I get what you are saying. But there is not bigger indicator of success, and it is in fact backed up and correlated.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

do the numbers support that?? I don't think they do, I think the numbers support being a starting QB is tough, and most fail... If you look up any failing QB, there will be plenty of red flags... But lets not act like QBs that find success had no red flags either...

point is, anything can be taught to the right person... and there is really no correlation between anyone who finds it or not... if anything the correlation is that they had opportunity, for the right team at the right time...

Allen's production at Wyoming was pretty damn paltry, especially in this era and the competition in a G-5. You had to do some serious wishcasting to think he was a going to be a good NFL QB if you track him from HS, JC, Wyoming, and his first two years in the NFL which were also 'bad.'

Josh Allen is pretty much the definition of an outlier. 9/10 times someone like Allen is more like Logan Thomas or Pryor or some nonsense like that.

 

[Anointed One]

What you want to see is progress and sustainability... Josh Allen definitely has the progress but can he sustain it? Probably but that's yet to be determined...

 

[SteelersPride]

What you want to see is progress and sustainability... Josh Allen definitely has the progress but can he sustain it? Probably but that's yet to be determined...

yes, he can. because the things hes taken steps forward in, aren't gimmicks, or runs. Its core fundamentals

 

[Cedrique]

the numbers do support that, big time. Im not gonna dig up the info, i have in the past, Its out there, im not gonna argue it again, in a thread about the guy who beat the odds, again, kudos to him and the coaching staff.......but yes, they definitely support it. Yes, there is a correlation, and the numbers have supported it. Inaccurate qb's generally stay inaccurate.

Yeah, I also think the receivers are more open this year so he doesn't have to necessarily be way more accurate for his stats to go up. Last year if they wanted to run a play with 3 or 4 wide receivers it would be John Brown, Beasley and someone like Zay Jones or something. This year you got John Brown, Beasley and Stefon Diggs. I think that makes a big difference. Beasley's stats are way up this year and I don't think it is because he suddenly learned how to catch better. He's just more open.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

its not foolish. Its the biggest indicator of success at the next level. Its also the biggest indicator for hit rates amongst mid round qb draft picks, whether that be as a starter or back up........the metrics fully back it.......

I get what you are saying. But there is not bigger indicator of success, and it is in fact backed up and correlated.

numbers do lie though, because every prospect has red flags, and generally all of them have multiple ones... if you just group everyone with the same red flags, you are not accounting for the many other red flags they have... if someone's strengths outweigh their red flags they will find success and be given all the opportunities to improve those red flags... Allen is a great example of this, he is an outlier, the same way any starting QB is an outlier...

I remember that draft, everyone was saying Josh Allen had the highest ceiling of all the QBs, but he had accuracy issues... that's tells me that his other red flags were not too big....

and improving on anything is about willingness, effort and opportunity... Allen clearly had this...


My overall point, is that you should not ever put a stigma on a prospect and just assume because of that stigma they will never find success...

 

[SteelersPride]

numbers do lie though, because every prospect has red flags, and generally all of them have multiple ones... if you just group everyone with the same red flags, you are not accounting for the many other red flags they have... if someone's strengths outweigh their red flags they will find success and be given all the opportunities to improve those red flags... Allen is a great example of this, he is an outlier, the same way any starting QB is an outlier...

I remember that draft, everyone was saying Josh Allen had the highest ceiling of all the QBs, but he had accuracy issues... that's tells me that his other red flags were not too big....

and improving on anything is about willingness, effort and opportunity... Allen clearly had this...


My overall point, is that you should not ever put a stigma on a prospect and just assume because of that stigma they will never find success...

So no flaw is off limits is basically what you are saying. That and everyone deserves a chance. I get it.

 

[SteelersPride]

Yeah, I also think the receivers are more open this year so he doesn't have to necessarily be way more accurate for his stats to go up. Last year if they wanted to run a play with 3 or 4 wide receivers it would be John Brown, Beasley and someone like Zay Jones or something. This year you got John Brown, Beasley and Stefon Diggs. I think that makes a big difference. Beasley's stats are way up this year and I don't think it is because he suddenly learned how to catch better. He's just more open.

yeah, to an extent. Some of it is coaching, and scheme, some of it is allen.

 

[Pure Steel]

Biggest question.....Where's Carson?

 

[Pure Steel]

Bills fans really pretending like Josh Allen wasn't garbage at football until this year.

Yeah, he was awful last year......

 

[MilkSpiller22]

So no flaw is off limits is basically what you are saying. That and everyone deserves a chance. I get it.

I mean, Russell Wilson beat the too short red flag, didn't he?? if you avoided him because of height, you made a mistake...

 

[SteelersPride]

I mean, Russell Wilson beat the too short red flag, didn't he?? if you avoided him because of height, you made a mistake...

Like I said U can pick a few... always can find a small number.

I mean Kurt Warner am I right?