Time to Put Barry Bonds in the HOF

[mrwallace2ku]

I don't "want" you to say anything. I just laugh at people who claim Pete Rose is the greatest hitter of all time because he has the most hits. If more hits=better hitter than Omar Vizquel is better than Babe Ruth and Johnny Damon is better than Ted Williams.

"Longevity" is the key here, not some guy that played a few with more hits/ABs.

 

[soxfan1468927]

"Longevity" is the key here, not some guy that played a few with more hits/ABs.

So longevity makes him the greatest hitter of all time?

 

[Mondo Jay]

holds the MLB records for games played (3,562)

This is the reason he accumulated the most hits.


A good hitter for sure (with very little power), but far from the best hitter in MLB history. He just played forever and compiled the most.

Let me guess, you are a quantity over quality kinda guy...?

 

[mrwallace2ku]

Let me guess, you are a quantity over quality kinda guy...?

Let's just say I would have a PR in his prime on my all-time team, not just because he could hit...but rather that he could steal a bag, play anywhere and excelled in the post season under pressure to perform.

BTW...


I don't even like the MLB much anymore, would rather watch kids play for the fun of it or enjoy a game of softball myself. When it costs 200 bucks to go to a pro-anything game for a family of four it just doesn't make much sense to me anyways.

 

[broncosmitty]

Was Rose ever even the best hitter on his own team?

I know Morgan came later and Bench is younger, but I'm honestly wondering if Pete was ever considered his team's best hitter.

 

[Mondo Jay]

Let's just say I would have a PR in his prime on my all-time team, not just because he could hit...but rather that he could steal a bag, play anywhere and excelled in the post season under pressure to perform.

BTW...


I don't even like the MLB much anymore, would rather watch kids play for the fun of it or enjoy a game of softball myself. When it costs 200 bucks to go to a pro-anything game for a family of four it just doesn't make much sense to me anyways.

Yeah, I figured you weren't that big of a fan or follower of MLB. Especially with your assertion that Pete Rose is the "GOAT" hitter. That was funny stuff.

 

[soxfan1468927]

Let's just say I would have a PR in his prime on my all-time team, not just because he could hit...but rather that he could steal a bag, play anywhere and excelled in the post season under pressure to perform.

BTW...


I don't even like the MLB much anymore, would rather watch kids play for the fun of it or enjoy a game of softball myself. When it costs 200 bucks to go to a pro-anything game for a family of four it just doesn't make much sense to me anyways.

His prime is what makes him great. From 1965-1979 he hit .316/.388/.442/.829 with a 130 OPS+ (5.1 WAR per season) averaging 158 games a year while playing significant time at 2nd, 3rd, left, and right (while also playing first and center). On top top of that, hitting .318/.380/.486/.866 in the postseason in 42 games. That's what makes him great. Not the compiling to get the hits record at the end of his career when he was a crappy first baseman.

And he was never really a stolen base threat. He averaged 9 a season in his prime and was caught 6 times on average.

Doesn't mean he's the greatest hitter of all time though. Not really close. It's not a knock on him, he still deserves the HOF.

And you don't need to spend $200 for a family of four to go to a game. Plenty of ways to go without having to shell out that much, even at a place like Fenway.

 

[mrwallace2ku]

Yeah, I figured you weren't that big of a fan or follower of MLB. Especially with your assertion that Pete Rose is the "GOAT" hitter. That was funny stuff.

Anyone that played as long and retired with a BA over .300 can fall into the discussion in my OP.

 

[DragonfromTO]

I'm not sure if the MLB needs MLBPA's consent/approval for something like this. I don't think there was any approval from the MLBPA when players in the '80s were getting suspended for coke (the MLBPA could appeal each case, but I don't think there needed to be any formal agreement for MLB to start suspending players).

If I recall correctly, the what the MLBPA agreed to a few years ago was the drug testing to players, not that steroids were to be banned.

I haven't read the entire thread so I don't know if someone else has already posted this, but Fay Vincent himself has discussed his memo and what it did and didn't do and who it did and didn't cover

Interview - Fay Vincent - Former Commissioner

"I don’t remember much about the circumstances and I don’t remember who really pushed for it. But, I can speculate that it came out of an awareness that for people who were not in the union – not protected by the Union agreement – that steroids might be a problem. "

"And so for at least coaches and managers and everybody else in baseball we thought we ought to go on record and say that this is bad stuff and we don’t want it getting a toe-hold in baseball."

"I’m sure that what the General Managers are saying is correct that nobody paid too much attention to it because it was aimed at people who probably weren’t big steroid users anyway. I mean the clubhouse man, and the coaches would hardly be taking steroids. But that’s all we could do."

 

[Mondo Jay]

Anyone that played as long and retired with a BA over .300 can fall into the discussion in my OP.

Wait...so a guy has to play as many games as Rose to even be in the discussion?

Its starting again.

 

[soxfan1468927]

Was Rose ever even the best hitter on his own team?

I know Morgan came later and Bench is younger, but I'm honestly wondering if Pete was ever considered his team's best hitter.

He was the best hitter on those late 60s Reds teams.

 

[mrwallace2ku]

Wait...so a guy has to play as many games as Rose to even be in the discussion?

Its starting again.

Did NOT say that, besides your statement would exclude everyone else from the discussion wouldn't it?

 

[Mondo Jay]

Did NOT say that.

I clearly misinterpreted "as long".

 

[broncosmitty]

Anyone that played as long and retired with a BA over .300 can fall into the discussion in my OP.

Like Derek Jeter?

(7th all time in at bats. .310 career average.)

 

[mrwallace2ku]

Like Derek Jeter?

Postseason/shortstop? yes

 

[broncosmitty]

He was the best hitter on those late 60s Reds teams.

Yeah, I was just looking at numbers. Mid to late 60's he was. Pre-Morgan and real early in JBs career.

 

[soxfan1468927]

Yeah, I was just looking at numbers. Mid to late 60's he was. Pre-Morgan and real early in JBs career.

Yeah and after Frank Robinson was traded.

 

[broncosmitty]

Postseason/shortstop? yes

Greatest Postseason shortstop is a narrow GOAT.

Jeter did play more games and have more abs than any player in PS history. But his career .310 was higher than his career PS batting average. ESPN didn't bother talking aboot that.

 

[msgkings322]

You know why the lifetime ban will never be lifted? All of the talk and controversy is good for baseball, keeps some more interest, that goes away once he's in.

 

[broncosmitty]

You know why the lifetime ban will never be lifted? All of the talk and controversy is good for baseball, keeps some more interest, that goes away once he's in.

The lifetime ban won't be lifted cuz the fucker bet on baseball.