Think Kobe isn't retiring after next season? Think again.

[trojanfan12]

You forgot baby shaq, Bynum. He was force and you cant deny it.

And if we are talking about Finals, that meansno Love for this year and barely Kyrie. Doesn't count sorry.
Plus a "Big 2" or "Big 3" doesnt mean he had a better all-around team. You look at the rosters and then compare no very different buddy.

So Bosh and a hobbled Wade is equal to Shaq. Nice try, you had me there for a minute.

Bynum was never a star, he was a role player. He had the potential to be a star, but was derailed by injuries. You can try to deny it all you want, but the fact is, Lebron had more help than Kobe and has produced less.

5>2.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Bynum was never a star, he was a role player. He had the potential to be a star, but was derailed by injuries. You can try to deny it all you want, but the fact is, Lebron had more help than Kobe and has produced less.

5>2.

We can compare rosters, but I dont want to get into all that.

I will just throw a couple names out there:

Glen Rice an ALL-STAR 18 ppg
Ron Harper 14ppg

Btw...if you think Chris Bosh is a star...cmon. He is an All-Star like Rice

 

[OutlawImmortal]

Bynum did not even play in the Finals against the Magic. People thought Dwight would destroy Pau in the post but it didn't happen.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Bynum did not even play in the Finals against the Magic. People thought Dwight would destroy Pau in the post but it didn't happen.

When Pau was in his prime, he could was actually pretty dominant he was a consistent 18 and 10 guy is entire career.

 

[True Lakers Fan]

I would like to state for the record the I did NOT facepalm that TLF post.

Spoiler

"But I would have if I had seen it before Shane did."

Well actually you have on other threads where we discussed the same issue. It's not like this is the first time this topic has come up you know - come on now

 

[True Lakers Fan]

First 3 titles Kobe/Shaq/role players.
Last 2 titles Kobe/Pau/role players.

Those Lakers teams had 2 perennial all stars Kobe/Shaq and Kobe/Pau.

Lebron had no help in his first trip to the finals.

The next 4 trips to the finals Lebron/D-Wade/Bosh/role players
This year Lebron/Kyrie/Love/role players

Those Heat teams and this Cavs team had 3 perennial all stars on the team.

Kobe has had a "big 2" in 6 of his 7 finals appearances. Lebron has had a "big 3" in 5 of his 6 appearances.

3 > 2 = more help.

I think I would want clarification on the Kobe/Shaq/Role players, but I think some in here like Shane have always thought of that team as Shaq's and considered Kobe as a role player. I don't agree with that assessment if that is what they are saying, but Shaq was the leader certainly Kobe could have done a lot more in the post Shaq era when they did not have a big man to plug up the center.

 

[Kold]

Haven't gone back and looked up the entire conversation, but if we're talking about the latter Finals title/appearances of Kobe's career, I always felt that he didn't get NEARLY enough credit. That 08' Finals team was one of the worst West team(talent wise) to make it to the Finals in recent memory, and that team beat the Jazz, and then beat the SPURS in 5. That team consisted of a Pau Gasol whom had never won a playoff game prior to the trade, and a Lamar Odom that eventually fell apart in the Finals. The 09' team was no juggernaut as well, but it was far more of a solid team than 09....and the only difference between 09 and 2010 was that Ariza got switched out for Artest. As for Bynum, he was a shell of himself on those teams with his injuries, only good for defense here and there

 

[trojanfan12]

We can compare rosters, but I dont want to get into all that.

I will just throw a couple names out there:

Glen Rice an ALL-STAR 18 ppg
Ron Harper 14ppg

Btw...if you think Chris Bosh is a star...cmon. He is an All-Star like Rice

Nice try. Glen Rice was essentially Ray Allen. The difference being that Ray Ray was a better shooter. Like Allen, Rice was a former all-star who could still contribute, but was coming down towards the end of his career. He was out of the league 3 years after he left the Lakers.

Also, Bosh was one of the best post players in the league in Toronto when Miami got him. He accepted a greatly reduced role in Miami to win championships. He was the 3rd wheel in Miami, but he would have been most other teams 1st or 2nd option.

that you thought an end of his career Glen Rice was somehow equal to an in his prime Bosh though. Thanks for the laugh.

 

[trojanfan12]

When Pau was in his prime, he could was actually pretty dominant he was a consistent 18 and 10 guy is entire career.

In other words, he was Chris Bosh and you tried to say that Glen Rice was equal to Bosh.

That's some funny stuff. Do you write your own material?

 

[Shanemansj13]

Haven't gone back and looked up the entire conversation, but if we're talking about the latter Finals title/appearances of Kobe's career, I always felt that he didn't get NEARLY enough credit. That 08' Finals team was one of the worst West team(talent wise) to make it to the Finals in recent memory, and that team beat the Jazz, and then beat the SPURS in 5. That team consisted of a Pau Gasol whom had never won a playoff game prior to the trade, and a Lamar Odom that eventually fell apart in the Finals. The 09' team was no juggernaut as well, but it was far more of a solid team than 09....and the only difference between 09 and 2010 was that Ariza got switched out for Artest. As for Bynum, he was a shell of himself on those teams with his injuries, only good for defense here and there

The 08 playoffs were the one Lebron averaged 35 a game lol. Anyway, they had a pretty solid team and players stepped up and hit the 3 ball well. Vujacic, Farmer, Ariza, Fisher, Odom. They had a prety solid supporting cast. 5 guys in double figures and Bynum did play in the Finals only about 20 minutes a game.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Nice try. Glen Rice was essentially Ray Allen. The difference being that Ray Ray was a better shooter. Like Allen, Rice was a former all-star who could still contribute, but was coming down towards the end of his career. He was out of the league 3 years after he left the Lakers.

Also, Bosh was one of the best post players in the league in Toronto when Miami got him. He accepted a greatly reduced role in Miami to win championships. He was the 3rd wheel in Miami, but he would have been most other teams 1st or 2nd option.

that you thought an end of his career Glen Rice was somehow equal to an in his prime Bosh though. Thanks for the laugh.

Rice started buddy. Ray came off the bench and we are talking about a 37 year old Ray Allen LOL.

It doesnt matter what Bosh was, the fact is he averaged 18 and 9 on Miami. He is essentially a lesser of Pau Gasol. He became a less effective KLove just standing out at the 3 point line, not dogging him, he made some pretty clutch shots. Just saying he wasnt the same type of player in Miami.

 

[trojanfan12]

Rice started buddy. Ray came off the bench and we are talking about a 37 year old Ray Allen LOL.

It doesnt matter what Bosh was, the fact is he averaged 18 and 9 on Miami. He is essentially a lesser of Pau Gasol. He became a less effective KLove just standing out at the 3 point line, not dogging him, he made some pretty clutch shots. Just saying he wasnt the same type of player in Miami.

Just because Rice started doesn't mean he was still an all-star or that he was equal to Bosh. You're really grasping at straws.

Another way to look at it is that Lebron had so much help that Ray Ray could come off the bench and Kobe had so little that Rice had to start. Additionally, Rice was 33 and only played on the Lakers for 1 season.

You can try to diminish Bosh all that you want, but your just going to continue to be wrong.

@you thinking that 33 year old Glen Rice is equal to in his prime Chris Bosh. You need to just stop. You're entering the "Wiggy Zone."

 

[True Lakers Fan]

Just because Rice started doesn't mean he was still an all-star or that he was equal to Bosh. You're really grasping at straws.

Another way to look at it is that Lebron had so much help that Ray Ray could come off the bench and Kobe had so little that Rice had to start. Additionally, Rice was 33 and only played on the Lakers for 1 season.

You can try to diminish Bosh all that you want, but your just going to continue to be wrong.

@you thinking that 33 year old Glen Rice is equal to in his prime Chris Bosh. You need to just stop. You're entering the "Wiggy Zone."

I know that people liked and still do like Michael Jordan, but I distinctly remember four other players helping him when he was on the court. I don't remember Michael out their on the court one against five. Just saying - No player does it alone.

 

[Kold]

The 08 playoffs were the one Lebron averaged 35 a game lol. Anyway, they had a pretty solid team and players stepped up and hit the 3 ball well. Vujacic, Farmer, Ariza, Fisher, Odom. They had a prety solid supporting cast. 5 guys in double figures and Bynum did play in the Finals only about 20 minutes a game.

Ariza was hurt that year, and also Farmar was only in his 2nd year. Fisher was always good for knocking down timely shots however. Vujacic did shoot the 3 ball well but outside of that, he couldn't do much else.
Looking at the roster, the starting lineup was Fisher, Kobe, Radmonvic, Pau, and Ronny Turiaf. Fisher was good for veteran experience, and knocking down shots, but he wasn't really a player that did much dribbling, and on defense he was a casualty. The bench was Vujacic, Odom, a 2nd year farmar, and that was really it(unless you want to count guys like Luke Walton and Chris Mihm). Getting past the defending champion Spurs in 5 games with that roster is one of Kobe's greatest, less talked about accomplishments

 

[HammerDown]