Think Kobe isn't retiring after next season? Think again.

[Tai Chi≈Surfing]

Good Luck, Gray Mamba.

 

[Tai Chi≈Surfing]

Maybe he'll be the Lakers coach one day?


oh wait.....he's been coaching them for the last few years now.

 

[WiggyRuss]

On a serious note here, I don't think the question is if Kobe decides to retire vs Kobe decides not to retire. If Kobe finds that he can continue to play a few more years, win games and have another shot at another title; then the chances are he will consider it even if he has to take less money and play a diminished role. Another title would make him equal to Michael Jordan and remove all doubt that in his time he was a better player than Lebron ever will be after his career is finished.

The question, however is what Kobe's body has decided to do. Has Kobe's body retired from the long season or can Kobe's body continue to play at a high level and over-come his past injuries and considering that his season has been cut short three years straight, I simply think his body has already begun the process of checking out of the game - regardless of what Kobe's brain is saying

I dont quite understand this statement. I mean- If Kobe wins a title and is the main reason it happens then it enhances his legacy much more than if he is ring-chasing Mike Miller style and not contributing. If I am not mistaken Kobe and LeBron each have 2 Finals MVP's. It is not LeBron's fault that he didnt play with say- Duncan in his prime and was the 2nd best player early in his career while Duncan won 3 Finals MVPs. Kobe definitely deserves a ton of credit for those championships but its a fact that Shaq won and deserved to win those Finals MVPs. How many rings does Robert Horry have?

LeBron has 4 Most Valuable Player awards. Kobe has 1. Some things are in your control - and some are not. Plus comparing legacies does not make much sense to me until the guys are retired. LeBron was 29 at the start of this season. He has a long way to go- and it seems like he and the Cavs are trying to ligthen LeBron's load like San Antonio did with Duncan to help his longevity. I remember giving Kobe a ton of credit for how he plays night in- night out- no matter what- injury or not- giving everything- but its clear that he is paying for that now by having the twilight years of his career marred by significant injuries while Duncan continues to play on and win titles and make All-NBA teams. I am glad LeBron and the Cavs are following the Duncan model.

for the record- Kareem has the most MVP's- 6....Jordan and Russel each have 5...Wilt and LeBron each have 4........LeBron won 4 out of 5 MVP's at one point- a feat matched only by Bill Russell. Winning 4 out of 5 MVPs and making the Finals 5 years in a row is pretty darn hard to argue against- accomplishments only the great Bill Russell could also claim. Kobe has one MVP- exactly one less than Steve Nash.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Yeah, I remember when the Showtime guys started retiring. Man that sucked. It felt like that era was going to last forever and I was still young enough to believe it might.

Sucks when our sports heroes get old.

Considering how young they will be, they would have to land a gamechanger type FA this off season and next off season to be in a position to contend and bring Kobe back for 1 more year. Even then, it may not be quite enough because it's probably going to take the youngsters a good 3 years before they really start to fully reach their potential.

Yep...as much as I don't want to see Kobe hang it up, it's time. They were on the cusp of another title run with D Howard, Pau, etc. and it's just fell apart basically all at once. If only the CP deal was allowed to stay in place...that sucked.

Now...they must hit paydirt with #2, hope Randle develops to his potential and build around them. In 2 or 3 years the Lakers will be back.

 

[True Lakers Fan]

I dont quite understand this statement. I mean- If Kobe wins a title and is the main reason it happens then it enhances his legacy much more than if he is ring-chasing Mike Miller style and not contributing. If I am not mistaken Kobe and LeBron each have 2 Finals MVP's. It is not LeBron's fault that he didnt play with say- Duncan in his prime and was the 2nd best player early in his career while Duncan won 3 Finals MVPs. Kobe definitely deserves a ton of credit for those championships but its a fact that Shaq won and deserved to win those Finals MVPs. How many rings does Robert Horry have?

LeBron has 4 Most Valuable Player awards. Kobe has 1. Some things are in your control - and some are not. Plus comparing legacies does not make much sense to me until the guys are retired. LeBron was 29 at the start of this season. He has a long way to go- and it seems like he and the Cavs are trying to ligthen LeBron's load like San Antonio did with Duncan to help his longevity. I remember giving Kobe a ton of credit for how he plays night in- night out- no matter what- injury or not- giving everything- but its clear that he is paying for that now by having the twilight years of his career marred by significant injuries while Duncan continues to play on and win titles and make All-NBA teams. I am glad LeBron and the Cavs are following the Duncan model.

for the record- Kareem has the most MVP's- 6....Jordan and Russel each have 5...Wilt and LeBron each have 4........LeBron won 4 out of 5 MVP's at one point- a feat matched only by Bill Russell. Winning 4 out of 5 MVPs and making the Finals 5 years in a row is pretty darn hard to argue against- accomplishments only the great Bill Russell could also claim. Kobe has one MVP- exactly one less than Steve Nash.

If Kobe wins another title, make no mistake about it, He will have to take less money and take a smaller roll which allows him to collect another ring. Highly unlikely that this Lakers team can do that in 2016, but stranger things have happened.

As far as MVP awards, they are meaningless when you consider how few Kobe got in comparison to titles. Rings is the only thing that matter. For the record Robert Horry won his titles as a role player riding on the back of elite players. Kobe won his titles as an elite player carrying players like Horry on his back. I think that's relevent

 

[Shanemansj13]

If Kobe wins another title, make no mistake about it, He will have to take less money and take a smaller roll which allows him to collect another ring. Highly unlikely that this Lakers team can do that in 2016, but stranger things have happened.

As far as MVP awards, they are meaningless when you consider how few Kobe got in comparison to titles. Rings is the only thing that matter. For the record Robert Horry won his titles as a role player riding on the back of elite players. Kobe won his titles as an elite player carrying players like Horry on his back. I think that's relevent

But when you are talking about legacy, Finals MVP's do matter. MJ wasnt second fiddle to any player in those titles, Kobe was.

 

[True Lakers Fan]

But when you are talking about legacy, Finals MVP's do matter. MJ wasnt second fiddle to any player in those titles, Kobe was.

Yeah - the only way another title means something to Kobe's legacy in the same respect is if he is still the leader and in charge and that will depend on free agency this summer. I have my doubts about that although many of them get mad at me for questioning if that can happen.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Yeah - the only way another title means something to Kobe's legacy in the same respect is if he is still the leader and in charge and that will depend on free agency this summer. I have my doubts about that although many of them get mad at me for questioning if that can happen.

He will have to play limited time, I just dont see a legit shot at it the way the roster looks at this point

 

[tducey]

I was 14 when Kobe came into the league, will be different to see him retired. Not my favourite player but a 1st tier Hall of Famer for sure.

 

[GNG]

Kobe's been in the league, since I was 7. It will be so weird without him.

Time marches on.

 

[trojanfan12]

But when you are talking about legacy, Finals MVP's do matter. MJ wasnt second fiddle to any player in those titles, Kobe was.

This nonsense needs to stop. I'm no particular fan of Kobe's, but the fact is that Shaq doesn't have those 3 rings with the Lakers without Kobe and Kobe doesn't have them without Shaq. In at least one of those finals, Kobe was as deserving of the MVP as Shaq, but Shaq was the bigger name at the time.

Shaq calls them the greatest 1-2 punch in NBA history. I don't know if I agree with that, but I do know that because of Kobe's presence, teams had to pick their poison. If they concentrated on Shaq, Kobe would kill them. If they concentrated on Kobe, Shaq would kill them.

 

[Shanemansj13]

This nonsense needs to stop. I'm no particular fan of Kobe's, but the fact is that Shaq doesn't have those 3 rings with the Lakers without Kobe and Kobe doesn't have them without Shaq. In at least one of those finals, Kobe was as deserving of the MVP as Shaq, but Shaq was the bigger name at the time.

Shaq calls them the greatest 1-2 punch in NBA history. I don't know if I agree with that, but I do know that because of Kobe's presence, teams had to pick their poison. If they concentrated on Shaq, Kobe would kill them. If they concentrated on Kobe, Shaq would kill them.

I am not disputing Kobe wasnt one of the main reasons obviously but if Lebron had the help Kobe had people would see him differently. I think it is just unfair sometimes. Rings means a lot, but you have to take certain circumstances into affect. Lebron willed two teams to the Finals that shouldnt have been there. No excuses.

Nobody is disputing he wasnt a huge part of those rings, but Shaq was Batman, the offense ran through him--he attracted double and triple teams. I think they could be considered the best 1-2 punch. Kareem and Magic are probably right there too.

Imagine Lebron and Shaq in their prime together.

 

[Shanemansj13]

All I'm saying is Shaq was the most dominant force in the NBA at that time, hands down. He was an absolute beast. Kobe wasnt short of that, but he didnt attract double or even triple teams for a reason.

 

[OutlawImmortal]

I am not disputing Kobe wasnt one of the main reasons obviously but if Lebron had the help Kobe had people would see him differently. I think it is just unfair sometimes. Rings means a lot, but you have to take certain circumstances into affect. Lebron willed two teams to the Finals that shouldnt have been there. No excuses.

Nobody is disputing he wasnt a huge part of those rings, but Shaq was Batman, the offense ran through him--he attracted double and triple teams. I think they could be considered the best 1-2 punch. Kareem and Magic are probably right there too.

Imagine Lebron and Shaq in their prime together.

So D-Wade AND Chris Bosh are chopped liver then? That's 4 out of the 5 straight Finals appearances right there. It was impressive when LBJ got the Cavs to the Finals the first time but the West demolished them. This year has been a very weak year for the East, if they manage to win against the Warriors then I'll be willing to give him a lot more credit.

If those Kobe teams during the mid-2000's were in the East then I believe he could have gotten them pretty deep into the playoffs as well. He almost knocked off the Suns single-handedly one year.

 

[trojanfan12]

I am not disputing Kobe wasnt one of the main reasons obviously but if Lebron had the help Kobe had people would see him differently. I think it is just unfair sometimes. Rings means a lot, but you have to take certain circumstances into affect. Lebron willed two teams to the Finals that shouldnt have been there. No excuses.

Nobody is disputing he wasnt a huge part of those rings, but Shaq was Batman, the offense ran through him--he attracted double and triple teams. I think they could be considered the best 1-2 punch. Kareem and Magic are probably right there too.

Imagine Lebron and Shaq in their prime together.

Lebron played in one finals without the "help" that Kobe had. When he went to Miami, he joined 2 other all-stars. Considering that with the first 3 titles, it was Kobe, Shaq and bunch of role players and for the last 2 it was Kobe, Pau, a Bynum who couldn't stay healthy and role players, you could make a case that Kobe had less help than Lebron.

Outside of the one season in Cleveland when the Cavs made it, Lebron has always been part of a "big 3" where Kobe has been part of a "big 2." Heck, Lebron even set up a "big 3" this time around in Cleveland.

I'm not sure how Lebron in his prime and Shaq in his prime would have worked. Lebron has never really been that great of an outside shooter. He's gotten most of his points by driving to the basket. Shaq never ventured more than about 5-7 feet from the basket. Essentially, he would have been in Lebron's way.

I think Lebron and Shaq would have eventually made a great pairing because Lebron is a pretty smart player. He'd have figured out that he needed to improve his jumper to prevent teams packing the paint and started working on it earlier.

 

[True Lakers Fan]

He will have to play limited time, I just dont see a legit shot at it the way the roster looks at this point

I don't think he has a legitimate shot this coming season either, but every time I say that, I get the palm face and shaking my head from Trojan. What do you think?

 

[trojanfan12]

All I'm saying is Shaq was the most dominant force in the NBA at that time, hands down. He was an absolute beast. Kobe wasnt short of that, but he didnt attract double or even triple teams for a reason.

Of course Shaq saw more double and triple teams. He's a center, he played within a few feet of the basket. I'm pretty sure Duncan has seen more double and triple teams than Parker and Ginobili. Does that mean he had any more to do with their titles?

Kareem saw more double and triple teams than Magic.

Sometimes, it's about where a guy plays on the floor.

 

[trojanfan12]

I don't think he has a legitimate shot this coming season either, but every time I say that, I get the palm face and shaking my head from Trojan. What do you think?

Your confusing threads........again. You should probably stop drinking and posting.

 

[True Lakers Fan]

I am not disputing Kobe wasnt one of the main reasons obviously but if Lebron had the help Kobe had people would see him differently. I think it is just unfair sometimes. Rings means a lot, but you have to take certain circumstances into affect. Lebron willed two teams to the Finals that shouldnt have been there. No excuses.

Nobody is disputing he wasnt a huge part of those rings, but Shaq was Batman, the offense ran through him--he attracted double and triple teams. I think they could be considered the best 1-2 punch. Kareem and Magic are probably right there too.

Imagine Lebron and Shaq in their prime together.

Every player has had some one helping them though, so Kobe helping Shaq really is not a legitimate argument. Lebron formed his own team of his own choice behind every one's back and sold the team to Pat Riley and still came up with only two of 4 championships. What does that say about his legacy?

No question about it, of all of them Michael Jordan was the best and still is the best, but

I would pick Kobe over Shaq because Kobe had the discipline and intensity that Shaq did lack some times. I think I might pick Shaq over Lebron who would be last in my book. Lebron is a good player but he's a guy you give him $1 and you get back three quarters in change.

 

[True Lakers Fan]

Your confusing threads........again. You should probably stop drinking and posting.

I was referring to something Shaneman said -and was referencing his statements in this thread. If that is off topic then we both are.