The Trey Burke Thread

[Sackataters]

Only 4 assists, but he does not seem to turn the ball over. We were plagued by turnovers for the first 15 games. I think we only had 7 tonight overall. This seems to be trending. So, I would say that he is playing the point, although it may not be translating directly into assists. Everyone seems to now know where to be.

 

[nuraman00]

Burke had 0 turnovers.

As you said, only 7 tonight.

Only 6 in that game against the Kings.

They're moving the ball and at least getting shots off.

A turnover is the worst because it means you don't even get a shot off.

I wonder where they will rank in team assists and team turnovers when the season is done.

 

[nuraman00]

Jimmy (Utah)


Is Trey Burke a long term answer at PG, or do the Jazz need to target an upgrade?

Kevin Pelton
(2:39 PM)


After two (successful) weeks in the lineup? No need to worry about starting PG for the moment.

 

[nuraman00]

orphyus (Slc)


David Locke mentioned on his tipoff that he's having a special guest from Seattle Join him on radio tonight for the jazz-blazers game. Gonna take a wild guess and say it's you. Can you confirm this? Also thoughts on Trey Burke? Looks good to me.

Kevin Pelton
(2:50 PM)


I can neither confirm nor deny this speculation.

Kevin Pelton
(2:50 PM)


So far, I'd say Trey Burke has done what I've expected. There's a reason I was telling people to be patient with how terrible the Jazz looked early in the season.

 

[MHSL82]

Burke had 0 turnovers.

As you said, only 7 tonight.

Only 6 in that game against the Kings.

They're moving the ball and at least getting shots off.

A turnover is the worst because it means you don't even get a shot off.

I wonder where they will rank in team assists and team turnovers when the season is done.

Would you take a team that had no turnovers but also forced no turnovers (not just not forced, opponents had none) over a team who were average in both? Assuming the shooting percentages in the set offense plays (no transition) are the same in both situations. And the transition plays are as efficient as you would expect (though the total number would change in the two scenarios).

 

[MHSL82]

I don't have Insider so if anyone can help, it would be appreciated. But here's an article about Trey Burke: NBA Trey Burke takes over top spot - ESPN

 

[MHSL82]

Warning: there is going to be some meaningless drivel for most of you coming in this post. Read at your own peril.

I was looking at Trey Burke's 19 games and I categorized them based upon how he played. I looked at his games statistically and had most of the categories from 0 to 4. Four being the highest. I did some categories like for zero turnovers, he got a 4; zero points if he got five turnovers. I was going to assign each category different weights, but then I thought that it would be duplicative. For example, if I gave the highest scoring game more weight, you already have more weight because of the higher field-goal percentage, higher free throws, and higher three-point shooting. Winning or losing and by how much also came into account.

Based upon that I have found him to have one great game, seven good games, five average games, 2 below average games, and 4 poor games. 13 of his 19 games were average or above. Obviously, average in general, not average to him. Otherwise, by (false) definition, only a third of the games could be average. (I know that's not true. So for you statisticians out there, don't correct me.) Or there have to be a bunch of extremes.

Some of my meaningless research was surprising to me. For example, in Sacramento he only scored 11 points which was the 12th most of his career so far but it was his second best game is so far overall. Against San Antonio, he scored 20 points, which was the third most he scored in his career. But that was his 10th best game.

Yes, my numbers are skewed. For example, it doesn't take into account home or away. It doesn't take into account the defense of the opponent. As said above, it also does not weigh factors. It doesn't factor in whether he started or not or how many minutes he played.

Oh well. Not going back to change that.

 

[nuraman00]

Warning: there is going to be some meaningless drivel for most of you coming in this post. Read at your own peril.

I was looking at Trey Burke's 19 games and I categorized them based upon how he played. I looked at his games statistically and had most of the categories from 0 to 4. Four being the highest. I did some categories like for zero turnovers, he got a 4; zero points if he got five turnovers. I was going to assign each category different weights, but then I thought that it would be duplicative. For example, if I gave the highest scoring game more weight, you already have more weight because of the higher field-goal percentage, higher free throws, and higher three-point shooting. Winning or losing and by how much also came into account.

Based upon that I have found him to have one great game, seven good games, five average games, 2 below average games, and 4 poor games. 13 of his 19 games were average or above. Obviously, average in general, not average to him. Otherwise, by (false) definition, only a third of the games could be average. (I know that's not true. So for you statisticians out there, don't correct me.) Or there have to be a bunch of extremes.

Some of my meaningless research was surprising to me. For example, in Sacramento he only scored 11 points which was the 12th most of his career so far but it was his second best game is so far overall. Against San Antonio, he scored 20 points, which was the third most he scored in his career. But that was his 10th best game.

Yes, my numbers are skewed. For example, it doesn't take into account home or away. It doesn't take into account the defense of the opponent. As said above, it also does not weigh factors. It doesn't factor in whether he started or not or how many minutes he played.

Oh well. Not going back to change that.

Can you paste your rankings for the categories that you ranked, and for all the games you ranked?

 

[nuraman00]

Would you take a team that had no turnovers but also forced no turnovers (not just not forced, opponents had none) over a team who were average in both? Assuming the shooting percentages in the set offense plays (no transition) are the same in both situations. And the transition plays are as efficient as you would expect (though the total number would change in the two scenarios).

I think I would.

 

[nuraman00]

Statistically, players that turned the ball over a lot as rookies, ended up becoming better over time at turnovers, during their careers, than the rookies that didn't turn it over.

I don't remember if this applied to a certain position, or to all rookies.

 

[nuraman00]

Play the point, Trey! Tonight looked like he was trying to get his shot and when he started missing, he lost his confidence. Instead of going back to being a PG (not a SG), he was out of it. Just my impressions, may be wrong. I am, after all, biasedly hoping for a pass first, assist getting point guard. Even without the assists, distributing the ball helps. "I want to be like John." Field General.

About Burke's 12/20 game:

Trey Burke 20:27 1 8 .125 0 3 .000 0 0 1 2 3 3 0 0 1 3 2



So you want Burke to play like this guy below?



John Stockton Game Finder | Basketball-Reference.com

 

[nuraman00]

Would you take a team that had no turnovers but also forced no turnovers (not just not forced, opponents had none) over a team who were average in both? Assuming the shooting percentages in the set offense plays (no transition) are the same in both situations. And the transition plays are as efficient as you would expect (though the total number would change in the two scenarios).

You got your scenario.

Sacramento Kings vs. San Antonio Spurs - Box Score - December 29, 2013 - ESPN

 

[MHSL82]

You got your scenario.

Sacramento Kings vs. San Antonio Spurs - Box Score - December 29, 2013 - ESPN

Confused. Both teams had turnovers. If you are baiting me to ask what's going on, you got it. What's going on?

 

[MHSL82]

About Burke's 12/20 game:

Trey Burke 20:27 1 8 .125 0 3 .000 0 0 1 2 3 3 0 0 1 3 2



So you want Burke to play like this guy below?



John Stockton Game Finder | Basketball-Reference.com

But his assists per minute were there and shots were 2-3 max. No comparison.

 

[nuraman00]

Confused. Both teams had turnovers. If you are baiting me to ask what's going on, you got it. What's going on?

Ok sorry. I just picked a game where both teams had low turnovers, not no turnovers.

 

[nuraman00]

Play the point, Trey! Tonight looked like he was trying to get his shot and when he started missing, he lost his confidence. Instead of going back to being a PG (not a SG), he was out of it. Just my impressions, may be wrong. I am, after all, biasedly hoping for a pass first, assist getting point guard. Even without the assists, distributing the ball helps. "I want to be like John." Field General.

About Burke's 12/20 game:

Trey Burke 20:27 1 8 .125 0 3 .000 0 0 1 2 3 3 0 0 1 3 2



So you want Burke to play like this guy below?



John Stockton Game Finder | Basketball-Reference.com

But his assists per minute were there and shots were 2-3 max. No comparison.

Ok. I removed the FG% constraint, and queried by minutes played instead (at least 20 minutes).


John Stockton Game Finder | Basketball-Reference.com

I notice the Jazz were 13W, 10 L. Winning!


This game must have been awful. I guess they should cancel 4 point wins over Houston with the forwards out-assisting the opposing forwards 15 to 8.



6 35-274 1997-12-25 UTA HOU W 1 27 10 16 .625 9 12 .750 1 4 .250 3 4 .750 1 1 2 3 1 0 3 1 24 17.1



Let's also cancel 10 point playoffs wins over those jerks the Spurs, and that jerk face Tim Duncan.

And let's also cancel how the Jazz frontcourt (C/PF/SF) out-assisted their frontcourt 6 to 4.

The Jazz! Showing off their all-players passing!


8 36-047 1998-05-12* UTA SAS W 1 27 2 6 .333 2 5 .400 0 1 .000 8 10 .800 2 2 4 2 1 0 1 3 12 10.0


San Antonio Spurs at Utah Jazz Box Score, May 12, 1998 | Basketball-Reference.com

(What an unusual lineup for the Spurs. Was Tim Duncan the SF, to Robinson being the C and Purdue being the PF?)

BTW, you don't have to respond to this nonsense post if you don't want to.

 

[MI Nightmare]

John Stockton comparisons already? Less pressure on the kid!

I'll tell you a couple of things though, Trey works incredibly hard and with a couple of reliable outlets he'll be a monster PG. If Detroit had him right now (can't complain too much about Jennings, however) with Monroe and Drummond underneath....forget about it.

 

[MHSL82]

Ok. I removed the FG% constraint, and queried by minutes played instead (at least 20 minutes).


John Stockton Game Finder | Basketball-Reference.com

I notice the Jazz were 13W, 10 L. Winning!


This game must have been awful. I guess they should cancel 4 point wins over Houston with the forwards out-assisting the opposing forwards 15 to 8.



6 35-274 1997-12-25 UTA HOU W 1 27 10 16 .625 9 12 .750 1 4 .250 3 4 .750 1 1 2 3 1 0 3 1 24 17.1



Let's also cancel 10 point playoffs wins over those jerks the Spurs, and that jerk face Tim Duncan.

And let's also cancel how the Jazz frontcourt (C/PF/SF) out-assisted their frontcourt 6 to 4.

The Jazz! Showing off their all-players passing!


8 36-047 1998-05-12* UTA SAS W 1 27 2 6 .333 2 5 .400 0 1 .000 8 10 .800 2 2 4 2 1 0 1 3 12 10.0


San Antonio Spurs at Utah Jazz Box Score, May 12, 1998 | Basketball-Reference.com

(What an unusual lineup for the Spurs. Was Tim Duncan the SF, to Robinson being the C and Purdue being the PF?)

BTW, you don't have to respond to this nonsense post if you don't want to.

Just 23 ain't bad. Trey will have more than 23 this season, barring injury. But I still like him.

 

[nuraman00]

Just 23 ain't bad. Trey will have more than 23 this season, barring injury. But I still like him.

Hmm. Those are some low expectations for a Jazz player.

Cmon, we expect and demand the Jazz to be the best.

The best, MHSL82!

(Watch from 1:53 - 2:01)

 

[nuraman00]

John Stockton comparisons already? Less pressure on the kid!

I'll tell you a couple of things though, Trey works incredibly hard and with a couple of reliable outlets he'll be a monster PG. If Detroit had him right now (can't complain too much about Jennings, however) with Monroe and Drummond underneath....forget about it.

I did not like Brandon Jennings in Milwaukee at all.

However, in Detroit, he makes better decisions. He adjusted to the team like he said he would.