The Keyonte George Thread.

[nuraman00]

I like Keonte George. I like him when he's a surprise secret player against other teams, and not hyped up to be "elite" by social media.

What made Joe Ingles fun was that he was a surprise secret player.

 

[MHSL82]

He’s played well. We were down by one and did a quick drive down the court and shot from too close. If he can develop a floater or a finger roll or something, the Jazz would’ve been up by one in the last minute. I still think they would’ve lost, yes, I know we don’t know that.

 

[nuraman00]

I still think they would’ve lost

You always say that.

 

[MHSL82]

You always say that.

Well, am I right? I mean, there are games where I think we’re going to win, and we do win or we do lose. However, I usually don’t say things when we win a game I think we’re going to win. But the one time I knew we were going to win was when we were down by 36 to Denver Nuggets.

 

[nuraman00]

That story belongs in the hall of fame.

 

[Sackataters]

I don’t think he’s ready to start but the Jazz are totally desperate. He has some good passes but is terrible on defense and his scoring is not good.

 

[nuraman00]

He should probably be a 21-25 mpg player off the bench, first, agree.

 

[nuraman00]

George's assists are going down and he is shooting too inaccurately.

He's barely getting steals.

He sucks.

 

[MHSL82]

George's assists are going down and he is shooting too inaccurately.

He's barely getting steals.

He sucks.

He’s a rookie and I take 7-17 as a victory. Now. I do expect him to increase his percentage by improving from downtown and shot selection. Plus, as the team gets better players around him, he’s going to get more assists and he will get more open shots. Right now, there will be times where defenses won’t give a good look because certain players don’t shoot well. Right now, that includes him, but as he gets better and others around and get better, that should improve.

One thing I heard from one of the stat geeks who watches film all the time is that his assists are better than like Harden, in that isn’t that he’s holding the ball, and then just dumping it with a couple seconds to go on the shot clock. In Harden‘s case, people have to shoot, and they’re gonna make it sometimes. George’s passes are with purpose and as we shoot better, the assists will rise. I mean, obviously, there will be some lucky assists, where he’s just getting rid of the ball, not at the shot clock, but in general, and they shoot and make it. But progress will happen.

 

[nuraman00]

I do expect him to increase his percentage by improving from downtown and shot selection.

I don't.

 

[nuraman00]

One thing I heard from one of the stat geeks who watches film all the time is that his assists are better than like Harden, in that isn’t that he’s holding the ball, and then just dumping it with a couple seconds to go on the shot clock.

Good.

Can you name the stat geeks? That's a clever way to talk about yourself without naming yourself.

 

[nuraman00]

There's stats for percentage of baskets assisted. I guess we can see if that number rises for Markkanen when he returns.

If it doesn't, then the players around George don't matter that much.

I say that because historically, there's some guards that no matter the team around them, they usually end up at about the same assists average, whether good or medium.

 

[MHSL82]

I don't.

Ridiculous. It’s so low that it has to go up. This is the worst post I’ve seen you make. If his percentages don’t go up in his career, I will admit I was wrong. I didn’t even quantify my statement, so your disagreement is black and white and wrong. Unless he has some sort of tragedy.

 

[MHSL82]

There's stats for percentage of baskets assisted. I guess we can see if that number rises for Markkanen when he returns.

If it doesn't, then the players around George don't matter that much.

I say that because historically, there's some guards that no matter the team around them, they usually end up at about the same assists average, whether good or medium.

Your comment makes no sense when you talk about historically some guards do not increase their assists. That’s ehh. There are a lot of guards in history so of course they’re going to be some guards would don’t.

What is your reason to state that this guard, George, won’t? Is there something that you have seen in this limited number of games that would tell you that you would know one way or another? I am perfectly fine with it might not happen, specifically because Utah does not have an assist based offense like it used to, but specifically targeting him does not make sense.

I could also see it if you stated that his start was particularly good with assists and so therefore it’s most likely to go down… but you didn’t provide any reason. Other than that it has happened historically. There have been some guards who historically have raised their assists.

I probably said something about assists, but my main point was that when people shoot better around him, assuming he’s making a significant number of passes, his shots should be more open and while his assists may stay about the same, it’ll be affected by taking more shots when he becomes more focused on offense. In other words, when he passes, it leads more to assist than it does currently if other shoot, the better percentage. And he’ll probably shoot more as his career proceeds. so the total number of assists may stay the same. But I was addressing your statement of assists going down in recent games. I think that they will return this somewhere OK considering Utah doesn’t have that anymore.

I have watched him play and provided information that the analyst that his passes are with purpose. I don’t see any evidence from you to think that he won’t improve from this stretch.

 

[MHSL82]

OK, I reread your post above, I guess you didn‘t really say that it won’t, you said we’ll see and that makes sense. I think I was feeding off of your prior post of saying he sucks even though I don’t think that you were serious saying that you would always suck forever. I also probably read too much into your statement saying that he won’t increases shooting percentage. Which by the way, I still think it’s ridiculous, but I think that you could clarify.

 

[nuraman00]

Ridiculous. It’s so low that it has to go up. This is the worst post I’ve seen you make. If his percentages don’t go up in his career, I will admit I was wrong. I didn’t even quantify my statement, so your disagreement is black and white and wrong. Unless he has some sort of tragedy.

His percentages are similar to Killian Hayes from Hayes rookie year.

He barely improved in his first 3 years.

It's up a little bit in his 4th year, but we'll see if it holds.

I also don't think he'll improve his shot selection THIS YEAR. It might take 2 or 3 years before he might.

I think a player's mindset will be the same for the duration of the year. Then in the offseason, during exit interviews, maybe he gets advice and takes it. Maybe he'll be unable to take it. Maybe they don't even advise him on his shooting. We'll see.

 

[nuraman00]

OK, I reread your post above, I guess you didn‘t really say that it won’t, you said we’ll see and that makes sense. I think I was feeding off of your prior post of saying he sucks even though I don’t think that you were serious saying that you would always suck forever. I also probably read too much into your statement saying that he won’t increases shooting percentage. Which by the way, I still think it’s ridiculous, but I think that you could clarify.

Yes, I said we'll see. I want to see what this team does with Markkanen and Kessler both healthy, for about 21 games.

Will the offense improve, and if so, by how much? Does anyone play worse? Because sometimes the team plays better, except for one individual who does worse.

The first year the Raptors won 70% of his games, Kyle Lowry's numbers were all down. Shooting, assisting, everything. He kept hearing about it, but didn't mind, because they were finally winning.

They would win 70% of their games 3 years in a row.

First things first, the Jazz hopefully win more games, when fully healthy. Next, let's see who plays better when the Jazz are winning more, and if anyone plays worse.

 

[nuraman00]

I could also see it if you stated that his start was particularly good with assists and so therefore it’s most likely to go down

No, I did not mean it was likely to go down.

I have been disappointed that it has gone down, because I expected it to stay even.

 

[nuraman00]

his shots should be more open and while his assists may stay about the same,

Then if he misses shots while being more open, broadcasters will say "he had too much time to think and wasn't in rhythm".

 

[nuraman00]

I could also see it if you stated that his start was particularly good with assists and so therefore it’s most likely to go down… but you didn’t provide any reason. Other than that it has happened historically.

Actually what I meant about the historical context, is that assist don't go up with better players, they stay the same.

I did not mean to say they would go down. Just that they wouldn't go up.

As for George, it's not about him. I think if there's a long stretch of losing, they might easily lose confidence or focus in games and not play as correctly. That's the biggest reason right now I think the assists might not go up.

Because if Markkanen comes back, and the Jazz still lose, they might trade off some players, have a worse team, and the team will be more experimental, or people might not be playing as correctly. So assists won't go up.

Even if they don't trade players away, if the Jazz are still losing badly when Markkanen comes back, he's not going to play as many minutes. So the Markkanen effect will help less.

But mainly, I just meant I don't know yet if assists will go up. That's not the same as saying they will go down. Just that they might stay constant. We will see. I am just saying this is a possibility, because historically there's guards that are consistent with assists, no matter how medium or good of a team they have. He might not fit one of those trends, he might fit with the other players that do get more assists if the team varies.