THE PAC 12 THREAD v.5

[socaljim242]

Yeah, I don't know if Helton is the right hire, but he's better than Kiffin or Sark. This season has looked eerily similar to Carroll's first season. I'm not saying Helton is going to be Pete Carroll v2.0, but I like the direction he has them headed in.

What a lot of folks are forgetting is that he's trying to change the entire way the team plays. We have been a very pass heavy, finesse type of team left since Carroll and he's trying to change back to the physical, run first style that has always been the core of every successful USC team.

Totally correct. Even though people think of Pete as a coach with an ego ,those of us who saw more of him than the highlights on espn or him pacing the sidelines know that he was all about the kids and the program. .Kiffin was all about Kiffin and Sark was very similar. They wanted control so they would get the credit. I'm not saying they didn't want to win. They did but they wanted the headline to be about how smart and good they were. That's why they wanted more flash and had WRs getting all calls instead of sometimes using the run game when needed even if it wasn't sexy. Helton strikes me as a coach who wants all the glory to be put on the players and I think once this is his team completely the team will be talented but play for each other. Now , we will see if his Xs and Os are good enough but I'm not concerned about direction with him.

 

[TheDayMan]

Totally correct. Even though people think of Pete as a coach with an ego ,those of us who saw more of him than the highlights on espn or him pacing the sidelines know that he was all about the kids and the program. .Kiffin was all about Kiffin and Sark was very similar. They wanted control so they would get the credit. I'm not saying they didn't want to win. They did but they wanted the headline to be about how smart and good they were. That's why they wanted more flash and had WRs getting all calls instead of sometimes using the run game when needed even if it wasn't sexy. Helton strikes me as a coach who wants all the glory to be put on the players and I think once this is his team completely the team will be talented but play for each other. Now , we will see if his Xs and Os are good enough but I'm not concerned about direction with him.

Yep, I always thought Sark was an attention whore "me" guy, even before I had reason not to like him. I never felt that way about Carroll, even when he was at USC. Kiffin is Kiffin...

 

[socaljim242]

That's my favorite thing about him as QB. He spreads the ball around rather than just targeting 1 guy all of the time.

lol. I was at that game when Kiffin was coaching. It was either the first or second of the season and one of th WRs (Woods? Lee?) got something like 14 passes. It was idiotic play calling in a blatant attempt to get one player national exposure and him praise at the expense of the rest of the team.

 

[WizardHawk]

Uhhh, you've been on that almost as much as jim. Jes' sayin'

So winding Jim up on it and then watching he and Oly go at it counts the same?

 

[WizardHawk]

Yeah, I don't know if Helton is the right hire, but he's better than Kiffin or Sark. This season has looked eerily similar to Carroll's first season. I'm not saying Helton is going to be Pete Carroll v2.0, but I like the direction he has them headed in.

What a lot of folks are forgetting is that he's trying to change the entire way the team plays. We have been a very pass heavy, finesse type of team left since Carroll and he's trying to change back to the physical, run first style that has always been the core of every successful USC team.

Almost all very successful teams build on solid running games and controlling the line of scrimmage in general plus having a sound defense. That was the Don James formula as well. We have seen Bama and others do the same. Stanford is at their best when they can dominate the lines and play tough defense.

The bigger point though was about Oregon and where they are and how fast they might turn it around. If they stay with Helfrich they clearly need to make some change somewhere or at least show that there is progress before the end of the season. Some kind of hope that these younger kids are starting to get it. And Hoke just needs to go. I don't care if you are putting in a new defense, you don't get 70 hung on you at home half way through the season with at much talent as they have.

If they dump Helfrich now they have bigger questions. Can they find a guy that can jump in with this system with as unique as it is? Are you talking some other Kelly tree coach such as Frost? If not how much time is it going to take to sweep out the old and go with a new direction and get the kids in that can run that new system? And will the next coach be a hit or a miss? You can't really give most of them less than 3-4 years so each failure puts you 4-5 more years of frustration before you reset and try again.

Michigan went through it. ND has had their battles. SC is still hoping Helton is it. Texas may be on the verge of another change. Nebraska hasn't hit on one that really put them back where they should be.

NN and others think you just throw money at it and BAM you are back on top. Those programs above have very deep pockets of their own and still struggled. Oregon could get lucky and hit it first try, but I've seen plenty of examples to suggest it is more likely it takes a few tries and patience from the fans/school to get back there.

 

[wazzu31]

Oregon needs to have their defense go to frat parties, Dominos and bars and fuck some people up and get their confidence back.

 

[socaljim242]

So winding Jim up on it and then watching he and Oly go at it counts the same?

You didn't wind me up. lol. It was seeing him squirm for answers and trying to defend the obvious, is what was so much fun. I thought it was hilarious he would say other ducks would tell him to not engage.

 

[WizardHawk]

You didn't wind me up. lol. It was seeing him squirm for answers and trying to defend the obvious, is what was so much fun. I thought it was hilarious he would say other ducks would tell him to not engage.

Well you and I both started it off and then I watched for a few days. Then I got it going a couple more times and just sat back and watched it. I do love watching Oly try to go in the same circle over and over. It is often very entertaining.

 

[socaljim242]

Well you and I both started it off and then I watched for a few days. Then I got it going a couple more times and just sat back and watched it. I do love watching Oly try to go in the same circle over and over. It is often very entertaining.

lol. It was funny. It was like geeze dude, can you not see that there's not been one QB your current coach has developed. They should have bit the bullet at the beginning of the year and started the kid. They might have struggled some but they might have been in a better position by now.

 

[handicappers]

Serious question.

Does Oregon still suck?

 

[WizardHawk]

lol. It was funny. It was like geeze dude, can you not see that there's not been one QB your current coach has developed. They should have bit the bullet at the beginning of the year and started the kid. They might have struggled some but they might have been in a better position by now.

Well he did come out after this last game and basically say we were right so there's that. At least he admitted we all called their decline before the season correctly and had the right tone about their shitty defense.

 

[socaljim242]

Serious question.

Does Oregon still suck?

Wait , wait , wait....... Yes.

 

[WizardHawk]

Serious question.

Does Oregon still suck?

Well they have Cal next after their bye and I'm pretty sure they are all already heading down there to unzip their pants and see for themselves.

I think some are wondering if they can actually win another game this year particularly after the beavs just won their game yesterday.

 

[socaljim242]

Well he did come out after this last game and basically say we were right so there's that. At least he admitted we all called their decline before the season correctly and had the right tone about their shitty defense.

Yeah but no one knew they would be this bad at this point. I still had them as a threat to win the north but a close second or third. But getting boat raced at home like that? Didn't see that coming. I wish USC was playing them next week. They gotta be totally down right now.

 

[wazzu31]

The Ducks could have Jesus starting for them right now and they are 10 point dogs and everyone taking the over with that defense.

 

[WizardHawk]

Yeah but no one knew they would be this bad at this point. I still had them as a threat to win the north but a close second or third. But getting boat raced at home like that? Didn't see that coming. I wish USC was playing them next week. They gotta be totally down right now.

If I remember correctly I think I had them 4th in the north? So I was off as well. They are clearly 5th or 6th. I argued all off season that WSU and UW would both be high because they were the only two with returning QB's and looked like they had momentum going into the season. Thought ferd would not be great, but not as suck as they have been. Didn't have Cal starting off as well as they have.

I don't think I even tried to predict the south though. I had no real feel for it other than I wasn't buying into Utah like everyone else was. I still don't know who is going to win that division.

 

[Olyduck]

You didn't wind me up. lol. It was seeing him squirm for answers and trying to defend the obvious, is what was so much fun. I thought it was hilarious he would say other ducks would tell him to not engage.

i never said it was other ducks it was just other people fans from other teams telling me not to feed the troll. you being the troll

 

[Olyduck]

Yeah, you could, if you ignored the fact that Oregon gave up 1020 yards combined on defense in those two games. I don't know about you but to me that could be a major factor.

the fact is they gave up that much and had they kicked extra points would have won. so in the end wasnt the defense

 

[Olyduck]

A. Oregon was never clearly the best team in the league as UW is.

B. The conference never wants to just crown Oregon since they always embarrass the conference when it counts whether it be performance or uniforms.

Oregon was just as clearly the best team in those years as UW is now. had UW not needed OT to beat Arizona then you would have had an arguement. every team that has won the conference over the years has had a loss or a close win.
always embarrass the conference like winning fiesta bowls and Rose Bowls? like losing a NCG by 3 points on the last play of the game? like actually playing a closer game with Ohio Stat than people remember. close through the 3rd and OSU scoring with 20 seconds left to make it look worse? embarrassing like actually making the NCG while its been how long since any other team even got close?

 

[Olyduck]

Not trying to throw a monkey wrench in your thinking but Oregon still plays USC @USC who just beat Colorado who spanked Oregon. Oh, and your team gave up like five hundred yards a game to these teams they "should have won". They need to start playing better before they think about running the table. USC was where Oregon was about three games into the season so I'm not saying you can't right the ship but so far it's been one bad performance after another and I don't know what you saw in the Washington game that gives you hope. The young QB maybe? It certainly wasn't the defense.

spanked? 3 points is spanked? SO what did Utah do to USC they beat USC by 4 whole points.