The Deal, Cavs-Celts, winners, losers

[The Q]

Yeah.....not like they don't have any other 1st round draft picks.

That pick they gave up shoudl've been the clippers pick.

They have no more picks that will be high lotto picks like that. aka the place you find stars.

 

[Heatles84]

Brad Stevens isn't stupid, so he wouldn't ever recognize Kyrie is the better player.

Hayward is absolutely the better player.

Absolutely, huh? Irving's a much more offensively dynamic playmaker than Heyward is. Who would you have said was the better player between IT and Heyward?

 

[The Q]

Absolutely, huh? Irving's a much more offensively dynamic playmaker than Heyward is. Who would you have said was the better player between IT and Heyward?

Hayward.

Hayward is good enough to historically be the 2nd best player on the championship team.

He's clearly a top 20 player in the nba. right around 15.

Irving and Thomas are both top 30

 

[Heatles84]

Hayward.

Hayward is good enough to historically be the 2nd best player on the championship team.

He's clearly a top 20 player in the nba. right around 15.

Irving and Thomas are both top 30

Wrong. Hayward just made his first all star game where with wing players, after the top 3 players in the game, it's a major drop off to number 4.

Irving's a top 15 player. You have your players mixed up. Hayward's a top 30 player.

 

[The Q]

Wrong. Hayward just made his first all star game where with wing players, after the top 3 players in the game, it's a major drop off to number 4.

Irving's a top 15 player. You have your players mixed up. Hayward's a top 30 player.

Nope.

Do The Celtics Have Enough Star Power To Win a Title? Not Yet.

I just buy and 1 mix tape bs or media hype.

 

[DJ]

Hayward.

Hayward is good enough to historically be the 2nd best player on the championship team.

He's clearly a top 20 player in the nba. right around 15.

Irving and Thomas are both top 30

Heyward isn't close to top 15-20.....you must be high. He's closer to top 30.....maybe top 25. I'd say somewhere between 26-30.

 

[The Q]

Heyward isn't close to top 15-20.....you must be high. He's closer to top 30.....maybe top 25. I'd say somewhere between 26-30.

I posted the link.

The facts are the facts.

And 1 mix tapes aren't facts.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Wrong. Hayward just made his first all star game where with wing players, after the top 3 players in the game, it's a major drop off to number 4.

Irving's a top 15 player. You have your players mixed up. Hayward's a top 30 player.

on my top 75 list i had Hayward as 24th overall and Irving as 15th overall

Tier 1 "The King" Division
1. LeBron James

Tier 2 True Franchise Player Division
2. RW
3. Durant
4. Kawhi
5. Curry
6. Harden

Tier 3 High Level All stars that are franchise players- just not the best
7. Cp3
8. Giannis
9. Wall
10. Davos
11. Towns
12. George
13. Butler

Tier 4 Yearly All Star Level talents
14. Draymond
15. Irving
16. Klay
17. Cousins
18. Gasol
19. Griffin
20. Lowry
21. Embiid
22. Gobert
23. DeRozan
24. Hayward
25. Lillard

 

[WiggyRuss]

I posted the link.

The facts are the facts.

And 1 mix tapes aren't facts.

i have to admit on hayward now- the fact that he was in Utah and basically never on TV --- and that Utah could never get everyone healthy at once- hurt his stock.

 

[Vyle203]

on my top 75 list i had Hayward as 24th overall and Irving as 15th overall

Tier 1 "The King" Division
1. LeBron James

Tier 2 True Franchise Player Division
2. RW
3. Durant
4. Kawhi
5. Curry
6. Harden

Tier 3 High Level All stars that are franchise players- just not the best
7. Cp3
8. Giannis
9. Wall
10. Davos
11. Towns
12. George
13. Butler

Tier 4 Yearly All Star Level talents
14. Draymond
15. Irving
16. Klay
17. Cousins
18. Gasol
19. Griffin
20. Lowry
21. Embiid
22. Gobert
23. DeRozan
24. Hayward
25. Lillard

Awesome that Davos is #10. Somebody's been talking about game of thrones. #stupidautocorrect.

 

[LogicMan]

Hayward >Kyrie- Stop it. This is illogical
Kyrie not a Alpha- This is a logical argument on the surface. Ainge claims he will become one. Certainly his playoff stats and even his head 2 head stats against Curry suggest he can be alpha on the big stage. He is in the 50-40-90 club or close already at the age 24. Who else has those stats at 24 years old?. he plays biggest on the big stage. Boston wants him to be the alpha, so he wont be able to shift the load to Lebron. He is being asked to be the man, like Westbrook once Durant left. Its a gamble, as is hoping a top 5 pick will transform into a similar superstar, but probably much less likely to happen as we know

 

[tlance]

There are basically 2 ways to look at this trade. Short term and long term. The Cavs won the short term, the Celtics won the long term.

The Cavs win the short term because they landed a guy who is really close to equal to Kyrie on the offensive end of the floor. They also improved a bit defensively with the addition of Crowder. Their offense should stay about the same and their defense should improve at least a little. This trade keeps them as the odds on favorite to come out of the East and get pummeled by the Warriors. "So they have that going for them, which is nice." lol (Who can tell what movie that's from?)

However, they didn't land anything that is likely to entice Lebron to re-sign with them, they got a guy who may not re-sign with them and whom they may decide they don't want to re-sign given the money he will be seeking and they are a fairly old team that really didn't get much, if any, younger.

The Celtics won the long term aspect of the deal because they got a guy who is one of the best offensive players in the game, is 5 years younger than the guy they gave up and is just entering his prime with plenty of time to improve. They got better offensively (especially with the addition of Hayward) but a little worse defensively unless Stevens can convince Kyrie to at least get in an opponents way once in awhile on defense. They did not, however, address their glaring weakness on rebounding. Also, this trade really doesn't do much as far as catching them up to Cleveland (maybe they can take them to 6 games instead of 5), but it does set them up to be the best team in the East once Lebron leaves or retires.

Note: The Cavs could at least make the trade a wash long term if the Brooklyn pick turns out be a good one and they get a really good player out of it.

I don't see it that way.

The Brooklyn pick is the best long term asset in this deal. LeBron may not resign in Cleveland, but the odds are a lot better now than they were a week ago.

Long term this deal is contingent on where that pick actually hits. If it lands at 1 or 2, the Cavs won the long term aspect of the deal hands down. If it ends up being 5 or later, the Celtics probably win, but that depends on what happens with Kyrie.

 

[The Q]

Hayward >Kyrie- Stop it. This is illogical
Kyrie not a Alpha- This is a logical argument on the surface. Ainge claims he will become one. Certainly his playoff stats and even his head 2 head stats against Curry suggest he can be alpha on the big stage. He is in the 50-40-90 club or close already at the age 24. Who else has those stats at 24 years old?. he plays biggest on the big stage. Boston wants him to be the alpha, so he wont be able to shift the load to Lebron. He is being asked to be the man, like Westbrook once Durant left. Its a gamble, as is hoping a top 5 pick will transform into a similar superstar, but probably much less likely to happen as we know

It's fact.

And 1 mix tapes don't win games.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Winners:

1. Cavs: the Celtics bid against themselves here.

2. Koby Altman: a 34 year old GM took over and he got way more for a disgruntled player than anyone imagined.

3. Celtics long term prospects: Kyrie and Hayward is a nice tag team in the East once LeBron retires/leaves.

4. Jae Crowder- goes from being a bench player on a solid ECF team to a major cog in the best team in the East.

Losers:

1. Irving: Leaves LeBron James and a team that has been to 3 straight Finals to a team that has less than a punchers chance at beating the Cavs- waived his trade kicker as well. And with Hayward in town he isnt even the clear-cut "man" that he wanted to be.

2. Isiah Thomas' free agent value: not good to see your injury woes played out in the public eye due to "reports" that were probably leaked by the Celtics- the team you just played your ass off for and recruited guys for- only to see the team stab you in the back when you are due to get your payday.



My biggest question about this whole deal is why in the fuck the Celtics would not trade the Brooklyn pick for Butler or George but would do it for Kyrie. To me that makes no sense- I love Kyrie as a player- but hes not as good as George or Butler.

As far as your Winners 1. and 2., it's total speculation.
You have no idea how the Celts felt about I.T.'s hip issues.
Obviously in their opinion they were satisfied with giving up whatever the Nets pick turns into plus ridding themselves of all current and future I.T. issues for at least two seasons of Kyrie.
Only grade for this trade as of today is Incomplete.

 

[The Q]

As far as your Winners 1. and 2., it's total speculation.
You have no idea how the Celts felt about I.T.'s hip issues.
Obviously in their opinion they were satisfied with giving up whatever the Nets pick turns into plus ridding themselves of all current and future I.T. issues for at least two seasons of Kyrie.
Only grade for this trade as of today is Incomplete.

Disagree. Danny paid a top 10 price for a top 30 player.

That's a loser every time.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Disagree. Danny paid a top 10 price for a top 30 player.

That's a loser every time.

How did you figure a top 10 price?

We don't know the extent of the injury.
We don't know the future of the draft pick.
The trade MIGHT end up being a loser, but very premature.

 

[Heatles84]

I don't see it that way.

The Brooklyn pick is the best long term asset in this deal. LeBron may not resign in Cleveland, but the odds are a lot better now than they were a week ago.

Long term this deal is contingent on where that pick actually hits. If it lands at 1 or 2, the Cavs won the long term aspect of the deal hands down. If it ends up being 5 or later, the Celtics probably win, but that depends on what happens with Kyrie.

I agree to an extent. The Brooklyn pick will likely be a top 5 pick. I think the pick only matters if Cleveland could net another star player (Cousins, Davis, etc..) as part of a package deal that includes the pick.

Lebron's not going to wait around in Cleveland for a lottery pick to mature 2-3 years in.

 

[The Q]

How did you figure a top 10 price?

We don't know the extent of the injury.
We don't know the future of the draft pick.
The trade MIGHT end up being a loser, but very premature.

That's what an executive said about the deal, in that Zach Lowe article.

You could use this lame bs tactic for every trade btw.

But you need to consider opportunity cost. if the best player he could get is borderline top 25 guy Kyrie, you just keep the pick.

 

[WiggyRuss]

I agree to an extent. The Brooklyn pick will likely be a top 5 pick. I think the pick only matters if Cleveland could net another star player (Cousins, Davis, etc..) as part of a package deal that includes the pick.

Lebron's not going to wait around in Cleveland for a lottery pick to mature 2-3 years in.

i totally agree iwth this- but then why would u go to LA to play with a couple guys that cant legally drink for another year +?

 

[tlance]

I agree to an extent. The Brooklyn pick will likely be a top 5 pick. I think the pick only matters if Cleveland could net another star player (Cousins, Davis, etc..) as part of a package deal that includes the pick.

Lebron's not going to wait around in Cleveland for a lottery pick to mature 2-3 years in.

Cleveland may be irrelevant either way.

But, it is very possible that the Brooklyn pick turns into a player that helps the Cavs a lot more than Kyrie helps the Celtics. And I say that regardless of whether or not the Cavs become a contender again in that player's Cleveland career.