Game Thread: Seattle Seahawks @ Dallas Cowboys

[jerseyhawksfan79]

Nah, a historic defense and best RB in the last 5 years did that.

The defense can't score all the time, so I guess RW has to be doing something right. Yes, this year has not been his best either.

 

[SonnyCID]

It's amazing that people want to credit the defense and Lynch, but not Wilson. Seriously, if you've been watching this kid play for the past 3 full seasons and can't recognize how much he helps those other pieces realize their potential, then football must be straight up confusing to you.

 

[SonnyCID]

The defense can't score all the time, so I guess RW has to be doing something right. Yes, this year has not been his best either.

And what do you know, it hasn't been the best year for the defense or Lynch too.

Fickle fans will be back on the Wilson wagon soon enough.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

And what do you know, it hasn't been the best year for the defense or Lynch too.

Fickle fans will be back on the Wilson wagon soon enough.

It's been a tough season to watch so far, but sitting at .500 we are still in good shape for a run at the division. If people want to jump off, then so be it. I'm gearing up for a second half of hopefully mostly ups and way less downs.

 

[Uhsplit]

It's been a tough season to watch so far, but sitting at .500 we are still in good shape for a run at the division. If people want to jump off, then so be it. I'm gearing up for a second half of hopefully mostly ups and way less downs.

Expect a good ride.
The next game is a big one. Win that and then SF is next.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

Expect a good ride.
The next game is a big one. Win that and then SF is next.

This week off couldn't have come at a better time. These guys need to take a step back for a couple of days to relax, collect their thoughts and come back to practice with a hunger like never before. 1 game at a time and the Cards are next up.

 

[WizardHawk]

It's amazing that people want to credit the defense and Lynch, but not Wilson. Seriously, if you've been watching this kid play for the past 3 full seasons and can't recognize how much he helps those other pieces realize their potential, then football must be straight up confusing to you.

And can you not both point out places a player can still improve AND give him credit for the phenomenal things he does well?

At times he's been very off in his passing and hasn't made great decisions on broken plays as often as you'd like, but no one doubts the things he has done well.

In this game he had some issues in that first half, but that last drive to get 3 to take the lead was all Wilson. Both of those are true.

 

[SonnyCID]

And can you not both point out places a player can still improve AND give him credit for the phenomenal things he does well?

At times he's been very off in his passing and hasn't made great decisions on broken plays as often as you'd like, but no one doubts the things he has done well.

In this game he had some issues in that first half, but that last drive to get 3 to take the lead was all Wilson. Both of those are true.

You can and should point those things out. What I'm talking about is comments like @Sharkonabicycle that the defense and Lynch are to thank for the success of the past few years, and not Wilson. IMO, without Wilson, the Hawks would be .500 over those past few years, maybe be lucky enough for 1 WC spot over that span, and they'd have top 10 running game and defense, but those are not dominant units without top level QB effeciency. I'm just surprised at any Hawk fan that still doubts this kid. At some point those doubters should get sick of being wrong.

 

[SonnyCID]

And @WizardHawk, the criticism is mostly justified. The belief that won't get fixed is a stretch considering the track record. I expect outsiders to be quick to doubt his ability to get out of a slump, but I'm surprised when I see people who have watched every snap of his carer doubt his fortitude.

 

[Screamin12th]

Wilson is completing almost 70% of his passes yet people want to point out the ones he missed ( which is far less than any other season so far ).

What is the best way to make a QB make mistakes? A pass rush is the best way and there is NO DOUBT Wilson has faced the the pass rush more than any other QB this season. Even with 0 sacks this past game the Hawks oline has still given up the most sacks in the league. I am in shock with how many people that are showing how truly clueless they are about football. To many Armchair QB's here and to many people that never watched the Hawks play before their Superbowl win. I am just so surprised at the lack of football knowledge that is being shown by so many posters but thank god we got some original posters still hear that some of you should really listen to.

Some of you are like the kid that eats all his ice cream and then cries it's not fair because his sister/brother still has ice cream left. Spoiled rotten and clueless. The Running game this season is not at the level we expected or have come to expect from this team, this is because the blocking is not even on the same planet as what we have seen in past seasons. Pointing your finger at the QB is the bitch move when so much around him is not working, it also is the easiest and least thought out move.

Is Wilson struggling? yes but hold on, the WHOLE offense is and that has more to do with the piss poor blocking than anything else END OF STORY!

At least many of you are making it easy to tell who has the lowest football IQ on this board

You all want someone to point a finger at look no farther than Tom Cable. No Olinemen or oline group has improved under his coaching since being hired as the Oline coach. He also is clueless when trying to draft talent for the oline. It seems like he takes these projects just so he can say " Hey look what i have had to work with, It's not my fault" lol

It's easier to see improvement from someone who has never played the position than from a talented player that has played the position for most of his football career when your Oline coach sucks. What i mean is a piss poor Oline coach can make a Dlineman play better on the Oline and improve where as he can not improve a player that has been playing said position for a long time because he adds no growth to them.

confused? your mom and dad can teach you to drive a car good but they can not teach you to drive a F1 racer good.

 

[JMR]

13 days until a major showdown. That's where the focus is going to be.

This is the true fork in the road of the season. If we come out of it at 4-5 and 3 games back of Arizona with 7 to play, Cards would have to completely fall apart for there to be a glimmer of hope to catch them. After this game, we will be looking at a clear path to another division crown or a tough road just to scratch out a WC.

 

[WizardHawk]

Screamin, no one is going to read a diatribe. Well almost no one. But if you are saying Wilson has NO areas he can improve in that it is you that is clueless. End of discussion.

I haven't seen a credible source anywhere that hasn't pointed out where the holes in his game are. He does make clutch throws and completes crazy scramble runs and other creative plays. No one has ever questioned those.

However, to look at your last lines car analogy, it appears you are in a pinto, not a F1.

If there is a receiver open with no safety over the top to his left that is part of his normal progression, but he simply fails to see that guy and instead hits another receiver for a 5y or 8y gain he still gets credit for a completion while it wasn't the optimal choice of that play. There is zero room for argument over it. They grade out every play of a QB and in that play he wouldn't get a F, but it's not an A either. He can still get better even when making a play.

His vision makes it so he is far more deadly outside of the pocket. He routinely misses open receivers over the middle while in the pocket likely because he simply can't see over the line well enough to find them. This is fact. And it's one that won't go away. So he works with what he does have and what he can do. Maximizing those is key to his furthered development. This too is pure fact.

The problem this year is his decisions under duress with the crappy line. He is taking sacks he shouldn't and making some less desirable decisions as well. There is nothing in that statement that removes ANY of the burden from the line. Of course it's entirely obvious that improving the line takes the duress away and removes those poorer choices. That falls under the category of 'duh'. That doesn't mean Wilson can't reduce the impact on the overall offense that this crappy line is having.

If all you are going to base his performance on is completion percent, then you have a very narrow view of the QB position. Simply talking about accuracy doesn't tell the whole story. RGIII was second in the league a couple of years back in accuracy but he sure wasn't the second best QB in the league.

 

[chf]

The problem this year is his decisions under duress with the crappy line. He is taking sacks he shouldn't and making some less desirable decisions as well. There is nothing in that statement that removes ANY of the burden from the line. Of course it's entirely obvious that improving the line takes the duress away and removes those poorer choices. That falls under the category of 'duh'. That doesn't mean Wilson can't reduce the impact on the overall offense that this crappy line is having.

I guess it would help (for me anyway) to know what level we're judging him against? 'less desirable?' Okay, that's a pretty all-encompassing blanket, anything short of perfection.

Even the best QB's wilt under duress. A GREAT example would be Aaron Rodgers against the Denver Wolve...er Broncos the other night.

It's safe to say that Aaron Rodgers is an elite QB. His performance against pressure in that game notwithstanding.

I'm not saying Wilson is 'elite' yet, and I'm not saying he isn't still improving. However I do think it's fair to say that he's done pretty damn well against the worst overall pressure in the NFL this year.

One one side we do have poster saying that Wilson should be traded. Nobody on the other side is saying that Wilson is the greatest QB ever to put on cleats.

So it seems as if you're propping up a bit of a strawman to suggest that anyone is saying that Wilson can't/shouldn't improve. What people are saying I think is that Wilson is doing pretty damned well at progressing, and despite the grousing on these threads, this year is evidence of just that development.

 

[WizardHawk]

I guess it would help (for me anyway) to know what level we're judging him against? 'less desirable?' Okay, that's a pretty all-encompassing blanket, anything short of perfection.

Even the best QB's wilt under duress. A GREAT example would be Aaron Rodgers against the Denver Wolve...er Broncos the other night.

It's safe to say that Aaron Rodgers is an elite QB. His performance against pressure in that game notwithstanding.

I'm not saying Wilson is 'elite' yet, and I'm not saying he isn't still improving. However I do think it's fair to say that he's done pretty damn well against the worst overall pressure in the NFL this year.

One one side we do have poster saying that Wilson should be traded. Nobody on the other side is saying that Wilson is the greatest QB ever to put on cleats.

So it seems as if you're propping up a bit of a strawman to suggest that anyone is saying that Wilson can't/shouldn't improve. What people are saying I think is that Wilson is doing pretty damned well at progressing, and despite the grousing on these threads, this year is evidence of just that development.

You don't read this board much then.

I can show you quotes of people who do very much believe that Wilson is damned near perfect. You simply are not allowed to ever criticize even one play of his.

I haven't paid for a PFF account, but there are some advanced stats on that site that break down some of these things and according to those who do have access to them, they show where his room for improvement lies. He could reduce his sacks by nearly half for instance. Not every one of those is simply a free guy breaking through and he has no chance to respond. He grades out fairly low in pre snap read adjustments.

You want to quantify to what end we are suggesting he can improve? Not really sure there is a percentage type of answer to that. Even Brady is continuing to work to get better. It never ends for any of them, or shouldn't anyway.

 

[blstoker]

You don't read this board much then.

I can show you quotes of people who do very much believe that Wilson is damned near perfect. You simply are not allowed to ever criticize even one play of his.

I haven't paid for a PFF account, but there are some advanced stats on that site that break down some of these things and according to those who do have access to them, they show where his room for improvement lies. He could reduce his sacks by nearly half for instance. Not every one of those is simply a free guy breaking through and he has no chance to respond. He grades out fairly low in pre snap read adjustments.

You want to quantify to what end we are suggesting he can improve? Not really sure there is a percentage type of answer to that. Even Brady is continuing to work to get better. It never ends for any of them, or shouldn't anyway.

If you aren't progressing, you're regressing.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

You don't read this board much then.

I can show you quotes of people who do very much believe that Wilson is damned near perfect. You simply are not allowed to ever criticize even one play of his.

I haven't paid for a PFF account, but there are some advanced stats on that site that break down some of these things and according to those who do have access to them, they show where his room for improvement lies. He could reduce his sacks by nearly half for instance. Not every one of those is simply a free guy breaking through and he has no chance to respond. He grades out fairly low in pre snap read adjustments.

You want to quantify to what end we are suggesting he can improve? Not really sure there is a percentage type of answer to that. Even Brady is continuing to work to get better. It never ends for any of them, or shouldn't anyway.

Think we've seen plenty of critism about RW myself. He's not perfect no one is. I'd say that many disagree about exactly his flaws are. I'd start with, he has to games when he's throwing the ball to high all day long, has games where he's just not on the money. That's just one, there are other things also but for me RW not the problem as much as other factors like OL, the D blowing leads etc.
Think in just a work in progress and a painfull one.

 

[Screamin12th]

Screamin, no one is going to read a diatribe. Well almost no one. But if you are saying Wilson has NO areas he can improve in that it is you that is clueless. End of discussion.

I haven't seen a credible source anywhere that hasn't pointed out where the holes in his game are. He does make clutch throws and completes crazy scramble runs and other creative plays. No one has ever questioned those.

However, to look at your last lines car analogy, it appears you are in a pinto, not a F1.

If there is a receiver open with no safety over the top to his left that is part of his normal progression, but he simply fails to see that guy and instead hits another receiver for a 5y or 8y gain he still gets credit for a completion while it wasn't the optimal choice of that play. There is zero room for argument over it. They grade out every play of a QB and in that play he wouldn't get a F, but it's not an A either. He can still get better even when making a play.

His vision makes it so he is far more deadly outside of the pocket. He routinely misses open receivers over the middle while in the pocket likely because he simply can't see over the line well enough to find them. This is fact. And it's one that won't go away. So he works with what he does have and what he can do. Maximizing those is key to his furthered development. This too is pure fact.

The problem this year is his decisions under duress with the crappy line. He is taking sacks he shouldn't and making some less desirable decisions as well. There is nothing in that statement that removes ANY of the burden from the line. Of course it's entirely obvious that improving the line takes the duress away and removes those poorer choices. That falls under the category of 'duh'. That doesn't mean Wilson can't reduce the impact on the overall offense that this crappy line is having.

If all you are going to base his performance on is completion percent, then you have a very narrow view of the QB position. Simply talking about accuracy doesn't tell the whole story. RGIII was second in the league a couple of years back in accuracy but he sure wasn't the second best QB in the league.

show me a post where i said Wilson has no where to improve? please i'll be waiting.

All i am saying is Wilson is the LEAST of our problems right now. If things improve around him he himself WILL improve. How do i know? we got three other seasons that point to just that. Good heavens.

People are saying "Wilson is struggling with his touch" Pressure does that to you and no QB in the NFL has been under as much pressure as Wilson.

People are saying " Wilson is throwing to many INT'S " Pressure will do that to a QB and it's the fastest way to make a good QB just average or below average.

People are saying " Wilson is not reading defenses well" Pressure will do that to a QB as he is always looking for the Rush and bouncing around to much in the pocket.

With improved line play there is NO DOUBT IN MY MIND that Wilson will also improve, Why wouldn't he? "Duh" people these go HAND IN HAND. lol

 

[chf]

You don't read this board much then.

I can show you quotes of people who do very much believe that Wilson is damned near perfect. You simply are not allowed to ever criticize even one play of his.

I haven't paid for a PFF account, but there are some advanced stats on that site that break down some of these things and according to those who do have access to them, they show where his room for improvement lies. He could reduce his sacks by nearly half for instance. Not every one of those is simply a free guy breaking through and he has no chance to respond. He grades out fairly low in pre snap read adjustments.

You want to quantify to what end we are suggesting he can improve? Not really sure there is a percentage type of answer to that. Even Brady is continuing to work to get better. It never ends for any of them, or shouldn't anyway.

I'm fairly new here, but I've been here all this season. I've yet to see a post that says that Wilson is all that and a bag 'o chips.

But yeah, I want an idea of where people stand on the continuum of

trade his sorry *ss --------> he's okay -------> He's good -------> He could be elite someday ----> He's God

I suspect that you fit somewhere on the right end of that spectrum (which is reasonable) and I think there's plenty or room there for a bunch of us with differing opinions to all agree that we're in the ballpark.

I think 'trade him' and 'he's God' are equally as ridiculous.

So let me follow up. 'He grades out as fairly low on pre-snap adjustments,' is that against ALL nfl QB's, or just against the best NFL QB's?

In your mind, the answer to that question is obvious. For me, it's not obvious, because there's no perspective.
I'm interested in the answer, because if it's against ALL NFL QB's, I call shenanigans. Because he's not running around making plays up on the fly every play. His completion % belies that he's in the lower part of the league (total) in decision making.

Judging him against the top QB's? Sure.

 

[chf]

If you aren't progressing, you're regressing.

Meh.

 

[chf]

As an aside, I remember on another board vociferous disagreements on Ben Roeth's ability as a QB. For at least two seasons, Pitt didn't even give him the whole field to read. They kept things INCREDIBLY simple for him. Some people argued that that meant he would never be even a good QB (that dreaded 'game manager' label raised its head).

But people underestimate the mental/confidence part of being an NFL QB.

Clearly the ceiling for Big Ben was high. Despite his handcuffs early.

Is that going to be true for Wilson? Is his ceiling high?

I think so. Others disagree.