Seattle Arena Hansen

[Tech_God]

If memory serves, the NHL is interested in Seattle, but only if the NHL team comes packaged with a new arena for hockey and basketball combined.

It's more of a what's come first? The chicken or the egg?

Basically, a NHL team won't come until the arena is built. Under the old M.O.U., shovels couldn't hit the ground until Seattle got an NBA team and they would play at Key Arena until the new arena was completed.

With the M.O.U. now gone, I think the scenario could be, build the arena, get the NHL here first, and see if the NBA does an expansion to get a team here.

It is not going to be easy though. The city council (and mayor) have their lips planted and the Port of Seattle's ass right now. Some of the council members are still butt-hurt over the reaction of fans & local media when the Occidental vacation blindsided. They might harbor a grudge and will do everything in their power to legally hold this up.

 

[Tech_God]

and now I read that the Mayor has "alternative" plans on renovating Key Arena for an NBA team. Sure like to know who those mystery investor are. Is the plan for them to 100% fund that or will the Mayor & City council planning on putting out a bond, something they were adverse to as of this past May.

 

[wazzu31]

and now I read that the Mayor has "alternative" plans on renovating Key Arena for an NBA team. Sure like to know who those mystery investor are. Is the plan for them to 100% fund that or will the Mayor & City council planning on putting out a bond, something they were adverse to as of this past May.

Which was why the Port is only thing stopping the arena. Under the old MOU the group was paying rent for the Key and maintenance for I think 5 years while they were suppose to find something to do with it. Noone with a brain can honestly think the Key Arena is a viable option for any major sporting event anymore. If it were the Showare Center and Comcast Arena wouldn't be booked year long with events that normally are held in major arenas in major cities.

 

[FirebreathingMonkey]

Salk: City Council, Mayor Ed Murray remain major hurdles to Seattle Arena deal

While most of the response from Tuesday’s announcement by Chris Hansen’s investment group to forego public funding for a new Seattle Arena was positive, 710 ESPN Seattle’s Mike Salk said Wednesday that Hansen’s pledge is only one piece of the three major hurdles that need to be crossed.

“He still needs a vote from the city council in order to get this done and as of yet that hasn’t happened,” he said. “So, (Hansen) can talk about eliminating the public financing but that wasn’t a major sticking point.”


As investment partner Wally Walker explained Tuesday, the team of he, Hansen and Pete and Erik Nordstrom offered to privately build a sports arena in SoDo. Walker explained that the new proposal involves private financing of a new arena instead of the city and county issuing about $200 million in bond financing, which would have been paid off through revenues from the building. Conditions of the offer include that the city agrees to vacate a one-block stretch of Occidental Avenue, waive the city’s admissions tax and have an adjustment made to the city’s B&O tax for revenue generated out of town.

The millionaire investors have many of the permits and backers to move forward on building a new sports arena in SoDo, which would put them in line for a professional NBA or NHL team.

While the good news makes sense from a logical and emotional standpoint, Salk says there needs to be more.

“The head and the heart are cute, but in politics, you better find a way to get the palm greased as well and I don’t think that’s been done yet,” he said. “I don’t think this is getting done any more than I did a couple days ago.”

While the private funding helps, it is only the first of three major hurdles that need to be passed, Salk said. The other two: The city approving the site and vacating a one-block section of Occidental Avenue, which failed in May by a 5-4 vote, and actually securing teams in either or both of the professional leagues that have no current vacancies.

“You can’t just build in the city. Ask any developer,” Salk said. “… Even if you’re financing it yourself you still need city approval if you want to get anything built. And then, at the end, you’re going to need the team and I don’t know that they are any closer to that. Maybe the new (Collective Bargaining Agreement) makes this whole thing possible but the site is nowhere closer to getting solved. The Port is still there; every other stakeholder is still there but especially the Port.”

One other enormously person in that site process: Mayor Ed Murray. On Wednesday, King 5 reported that the mayor’s budget director, Ben Noble, said the mayor’s office is exploring a major renovation of Key Arena, the former home of the Sonics.

“We’ve been approached by more than one legitimate group,” Noble told King 5.

It’s the exact fear Salk had after reading the following statement that the Mayor released on Tuesday:

“The City will review the letter sent by a group of stakeholders, including Chris Hansen, suggesting a revision to the previous SODO arena proposal. We share the goal of bringing the NBA and NHL to Seattle. The City will continue to consider all options to build a new, state of the art arena that will accomplish that goal and that can serve the city for years to come.”

Salk said he read that statement as being “terrible news,” with the line about the city conserving “all options” jumping out the most.

“I read that as let’s take another look at KeyArena because I don’t see the mayor as being truly in support of this deal,” Salk said. “I saw (former Mayor Mike) McGinn as in support of this and when he was, guess what, it passed council. And when Ed Murray was there and didn’t want to support it and didn’t do anything … guess what, nothing happened. Bad news.”

That’s not to say it was all bad news. Salk said he was encouraged by Wally Walker’s comments to “Danny, Dave and Moore” Wednesday about other potential investors that will likely be needed in order to pay for the enormous amount of money that will be needed to pay for the land, arena and possibly purchasing NBA and NHL teams.

“There will be other partners,” Walker said. “There are active discussions and it’s a lot of money. I shouldn’t speak for myself as being the one being able to pay for it, but Chris Hansen really has no ego about who is the owner majority. He’s like the rest of us, we just want to get something done. We’ve got to get the arena done and then we’ll get the teams. There’s a lot of interest in people owning teams and be willing to pay whatever the number is so that is not at the top of my list of concerns.”

Salk noted that although Hansen is wealthy, he doesn’t have the money to front the whole bill and lost some muscle and green when they lost the backing of ex-Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer, who purchased the Clippers in 2014. That Walker is confident that other investors will come forward is a positive.

Still, without Murray being fully on board, Salk will stay skeptical.

“I don’t just mean a little feckless statement of ‘oh yeah, we’re totally in support of an arena.’ I mean actually being on board,” Salk said. “Mayor Murray’s calling card is supposed to be the fact that he is a deal maker. Where was he when the vote was actually being held in front of city council? Where was he in support of getting a deal done then? He couldn’t get it done. If Mayor Murray is actually in support of this, let him speak, let him lead. Let him be the leader of this city that the mayor is supposed to be and actually get this thing through because I can guarantee you, if he is actually in support of this it will get done.”

 

[FirebreathingMonkey]

Wally Walker: Seattle Arena proposal not about winners and losers

Now that the group of investors hoping to bring the Sonics back to Seattle has pledged to privately fund a new sports arena, KIRO Radio’s Dori Monson wants to know what the critics of the plan will be upset about. One of the investors, Wally Walker, told Dori says he has no idea.

“I’ve been surprised by the objections before this, Dori, so I’m the wrong person to ask because I thought the (Memorandum of Understanding) deal was fantastic for the region and I thought we mitigated some of the issues,” he said.

710 ESPN hosts, the web react to Seattle Arena proposal

Walker, a former Sonics player and executive, is part of an investment team that includes Pete and Erik Nordstrom and is headlined by entrepreneur Chris Hansen. They’ve offered to forgo public financing to build a sports arena in SoDo. Walker explained that the new proposal involves private financing of a new arena instead of the city and county issuing about $200 million in bond financing, which would have been paid off through revenues from the building. He said the fact that tax dollars were never to be involved “somehow got lost in translation” but that the bond financing element will now be eliminated. Walker said the investors still believe it will cost about $500 million to build the arena.

Conditions of the offer include that the city agrees to vacate a one-block stretch of Occidental Avenue, waive the city’s admissions tax and have an adjustment made to the city’s B&O tax for revenue generated out of town.

Sonics fans have had a sometimes tumultuous relationship with Walker over the years. Despite overseeing teams that finished with a combined 562-390 regular-season record, Walker was heavily criticized for some of the moves made during his tenure as the Sonics president/CEO and GM. He resigned in 2006. He later became a key player in attempts to save the team from moving to Oklahoma City and in bringing the NBA back to the city.

There have been plenty of broken hearts over the years related to bringing the NBA back to Emerald City, especially after the Seattle City Council voted 5-4 to reject a proposal to vacate Occidental Avenue, which was needed to build the stadium. Dori asked if Walker believes critics of the old deal will claim victory for standing up to the investors and forcing them to cover the extra $200 million with private money.

“If that’s the response, Dori, that’s fantastic and we couldn’t care less if somebody claims victory as long as we get this thing done,” Walker said. “That’s all it’s ever been about and that’s the perfect outcome.”

You can hear the full conversation below, but here are other highlights from the conversation:

The latest on getting an NBA or NHL team: “We’ve got to get the order correct and that got lost, I think, in the street vacation discussion. There were some people and politicians that said if we just had a team committed we’d approve the street vacation or financing. It’s never worked that way and it never will. You’ve got to have a plan and a pathway to get an arena that is suitable for the NHL and NBA before a team or league are going to come here so we have to get this done as the first step. Then, when that’s in place, and they know there is a viable economic home for their teams, we’ll get the teams. There is no guarantees, there are no promises but there is a lot of interest and there is a lot of smoke – I would say a little more on the NHL side right now than on the NBA side but it’s all subject to change quickly and we can’t not be ready. We have to have a solution in place to be ready when the opportunity arises.”

Vulnerability of any existing NBA teams: “We don’t know and not our call. All we are working on is what we can control, and that is, we can’t control much of anything we’ve learned, but we can get an arena financing plan that we think works. We can tell a story like we are talking about here today, we hope we get the street vacation, we already have the environmental impact statements have already been done for that site, it’s already zoned. It’s pretty close to being ready to go once a team/league looks at it and says we want to be in Seattle, and why wouldn’t they?”

On the original Memorandum of Understanding being good for the city and county in terms of financing. “That deal was fine but here we are four years later, the MOU is gonna expire and we need to move forward and remove the obstacle, at least the perception, that there was public money involved.”

On still needing Occidental Avenue: “The space does not work for an arena. There’s not room because the buildings are narrow, so to have the almost seven acres require for the arena itself, that one block of Occidental (is needed). And for people who claim that there is a lot of traffic and it creates a traffic problem, they need to go down there. There’s not much traffic on that.”

On critics saying Occidental is a gift: “Oh, there is no gift involved. The city will be paid and that’s negotiation but they will get cash for that street vacation.”

On money going to pay for the Lander Street Overpass: “It’s not up to us but the money paid for the Occidental street vacation could be applied to get the Lander Overpass completed, which also would help the Port and the traffic in general.”

Initial response to revised proposal: “I’ve been stunned. … I just didn’t anticipate this and the biggest data point is my college-aged son actually sent me an outgoing text without responding to me because he saw the story. That never happens.”

Crediting Hansen: “He’s a great guy, he’s been steadfast and, of course, most of the money — I’m a partner, as are Pete and Eric, but Chris has really taken most of the risk here so he deserves a ton of credit.”

 

[wazzu31]

Murray is such a dunce. The NBA and NHL have already said no to Key Arena. The citizens of Seattle and King County and Olympia have said no to renovations of Key Arena, the only tenant they have there they let play for free. Let the part of the original MOU maintain of the Sonics or NHL team play there until the arena is done, with maintenance costs they offered until they demolish Key Arena and decide to use it for whatever. The Seattle Center died for the long term viability of any sports once the EMP and Gates foundation came within the vicinity.

Get the douches at the Port to actually negotiate with the group. Now that it will be privately financed maybe they can take part of the rent fees Hansen's group will get from the bars and clubs that will pop up on the excess land. The Mariners and Hansen agreed to essentially a no compete at all possible agreement which MLB, the NBA and NFL have always tried to schedule around as it serves neither league any good to risk a split audience.

The Port management (not employees)/their city council lemmings are like the extremists in congress. They drew their lines in the sand and refuse to negotiate even though it's free money for everyone without having to raise taxes. They already screwed the pooch with the original MOU of free money so take this free money. It's really cut and dry. Hate the NBA or NHL but when Tacoma or July is the only time major concerts are held in the state it is sad for the Emerald City.

 

[Judge Fudge]

Divisional Breakdown:

You guys are getting Phoenix or a Expansion

Phoenix: Scrapy Young team that has some talent (domi, Duclar, Crouse, Chychrun) . Just needs a little more or some breaks to make the playoffs

Edmonton: Same as Phoenix. Just more Talent.

Vancouver: As a Canucks fan. It's hard to say what in the blue hell we are doing. Right now we are 4-2-1 but we are "rebuilding". Meh go for broke.

LA: LA reminds me ALOT of Washington/Philly. On paper they got only 4 guys but they just keep on making the playoffs year after year.

Anaheim: They are the dominant team. Alot of star power on that team, yet like the Dolphins of the 80 and 90's. They just seems to do in the regular season and shit the bed in the playoffs.

San Jose: San Jose can surprise some teams. Very veteran core. if they get some youth to keep going......

Calgary (sorry chf): Calgary is a hard case. The talent is there (hell i will admit i love the young talent that they have) but they never put the whole book together. they seem to be missing pages and no one can put there finger on it.

but it is a bitch to make the playoffs. Centreal always owns are ass

 

[RegentDenali]

The liberal moonbats on the city council will find some way to fuck this up too. Those morons actually used the term "wealth inequality" as the reason they rejected the last deal which was one of the most ridiculously generous stadium deals ever proposed. The city would of made out like bandits on the deal, and they still shot it down to pander to their illiberal moonbat base.

Meanwhile, these corrupt scumbags had no problem allowing dozens of highrise condo and apartments projects be built in south lake union. There are construction cranes for as far as the eye can see in downtown and south lake union right now. Projects that charge $3000 a month for studio apartments. Oh but that's ok.

But someone tries to build a facility that will actually create thousands of jobs and pump millions into the city economy, and now it becomes an issue of "wealth inequality". Illiberal scum. The lot of them.

 

[jakedog56]

Murray is such a dunce. The NBA and NHL have already said no to Key Arena. The citizens of Seattle and King County and Olympia have said no to renovations of Key Arena, the only tenant they have there they let play for free. Let the part of the original MOU maintain of the Sonics or NHL team play there until the arena is done, with maintenance costs they offered until they demolish Key Arena and decide to use it for whatever. The Seattle Center died for the long term viability of any sports once the EMP and Gates foundation came within the vicinity.

Get the douches at the Port to actually negotiate with the group. Now that it will be privately financed maybe they can take part of the rent fees Hansen's group will get from the bars and clubs that will pop up on the excess land. The Mariners and Hansen agreed to essentially a no compete at all possible agreement which MLB, the NBA and NFL have always tried to schedule around as it serves neither league any good to risk a split audience.

The Port management (not employees)/their city council lemmings are like the extremists in congress. They drew their lines in the sand and refuse to negotiate even though it's free money for everyone without having to raise taxes. They already screwed the pooch with the original MOU of free money so take this free money. It's really cut and dry. Hate the NBA or NHL but when Tacoma or July is the only time major concerts are held in the state it is sad for the Emerald City.

Agreed. Remodeling the Key is not a viable option and only an idiot would even think to propose it as a solution.

Adding the extra seats and luxury boxes that a remodel could offer is only one of the problems. The lack of parking revenue, and the inability to add a money making complex around the Key are only two of the big issuses that remodeling the Key does not address. That is why it was not an option before the Sonics were stolen away.

In the modern NBA, you need to privatize the area around the arena and turn it into a revenue source. You can't do that in the Seattle Center which is essentially a public park.

To say that it is not "free money" when Hansen has gone overboard to finance it with his group (certainly moreso than any other situation in other cities in recent memory), just because he might want tax exemptions or might effect traffic routes (which has also gone out of the way to address) is ridiculous.

Hansen keep making better and better offers, but so far has been met with little but resistance. At some point if an offer is not agreed upon, he is going to say fuck this and walk away, leaving everyone with nothing to show for a shitload of work. The city/port, etc. need to start working more with him as opposed to against him very soon.

 

[JMR]

The liberal moonbats on the city council will find some way to fuck this up too. Those morons actually used the term "wealth inequality" as the reason they rejected the last deal which was one of the most ridiculously generous stadium deals ever proposed. The city would of made out like bandits on the deal, and they still shot it down to pander to their illiberal moonbat base.

Meanwhile, these corrupt scumbags had no problem allowing dozens of highrise condo and apartments projects be built in south lake union. There are construction cranes for as far as the eye can see in downtown and south lake union right now. Projects that charge $3000 a month for studio apartments. Oh but that's ok.

But someone tries to build a facility that will actually create thousands of jobs and pump millions into the city economy, and now it becomes an issue of "wealth inequality". Illiberal scum. The lot of them.

Yeah, I was reading the bios of the 5 women on the council (they were the 5 who voted the deal down in May) and it didn't give me much optimism that they would change their tune. The gal from India is an out front socialist, self proclaimed. A few of the others brag about being "activists" and out for "social justice" and other liberal buzzwords that typically people who don't give a rip about pro sports will say. Citizens need to put the heat on them or it wont happen, imo.

 

[chf]

I read a literal shit ton of stuff on the economic 'benefits' to cities of pro sports stadiums when I was living in DFW in the run up to Jerryworld being built.

Economic benefits to the city and its tax base are not what they're cracked up to be, certainly not 'free money,' as some in this thread are claiming.

Given the money that the city/state put in, it's pretty strained to even see it as a good investment - at least from a dollars perspective.

There's other reasons to invest of course, and some good arguments can be made along those lines. But c'mon now, these mega projects are just currently nearly ALWAYS publicly financed, and if the rich owners (who no longer share revenue from the games themselves) pay the lions share rarely, they STILL want tax kick-backs to recoup their outlay.

It's corporate welfare.

It was corporate welfare when Allen had the CLINK half paid for with taxpayer dollars (he's richer than the rest of the NFL owners combined), and it'll be corporate welfare now.

In a time when the rich are getting richer, and true middle class jobs are becoming rarer and rarer, is it any surprise that these kinda' deals are a tough political sell? The jobs they 'spin-off,' are a lot closer to McJobs than they are to good paying middle class types.

I actually hope that the NBA does come back to Seattle. The ONLY reason that the NBA screwed Seattle in the first place, was because of building(s). Hansen seems to want to keep the optics as good as possible, about impact on taxpayers, which is good. But anyone who is trotting out lines about how EVERYONE is going to get rich off the Sonics/NHL TBD coming to Seattle, is dreaming.

Just a different perspective.

 

[wazzu31]

See, IMO, this deal is massively worse for the citizens of Seattle compared to original MOU. But that is the by product of those citizens complaining about bonds going towards the arena. The city would've eventually owned the arena and land, it would become a money printing machine when in 20 years looking back on it the arena would've been essentially free.

But the issue is the Key Arena but that is on the council. The Sonics and the Hockey tenants have been gone for over half a decade and nothing has been done to actually make it more than a HS gym for women's basketball and minor events. Just like the Port spending more money on lobbying than working to fix the problem the council keeps wasting tax payers money on studies and architects to come up with plans to remodel it yet nothing has been done.

 

[Destroydacre]

As a outsider that views the NHL. This is interesting.

If i may.

For the past 2 years. Everything that the media (TSN, CBC and SPORTSNET) have been talking about as regards to team movement is Expansion and Vegas. The NHL approved it during the summer(June or July). Nothing from Glendale, nothing from Miami, nothing from Columbus or Raligeh. All about Vegas( and Quebec city but they lost out)

Interesting counterpoint and i'll ask for @Destroydacre to back me up. The last time NHL did expansion. 4 teams came one per year for 4 years. (Minnesota Wild, Atlanta Thrashers(now Winnipeg Jets), Nashville Predators and Columbus Blue Jackets) so something to keep in mind. Ill provide a divisional breakdown later

Correct and those expansions all happened back between 1999 and 2001. There hasn't been any expansion in the NHL until they approved Vegas in the offseason. The NHL wants a team in Seattle. They completely passed over Quebec to give Seattle more time. Someone just needs to make that arena happen. The NHL doesn't want to play in Key Arena, but they would be willing to let a team play there while a new arena was being built.

As for the people who say this arena must have an NBA team to be successful, why? There are several arenas around the country that have an NHL team but no NBA team. Columbus, Pittsburgh, Nashville, Florida, San Jose, Anaheim, Buffalo all off the top of my head. I'm sure there's more. I don't buy the argument that an arena is not feasible without an NBA team.

 

[wazzu31]

Just out of curiosity since I really don't know, how many of those arenas are state of the art though that Hansen is proposing? As well as NHL is the only main tenant? Don't most of those have a NCAA team that plays there? I really don't know on that.

Either way, the NBA, NHL and NCAA has all said no to Key Arena, hell toss minor league hockey in there too. It just makes no sense why Key Arena is even being discussed outside the fact that the leadership in Seattle are incompetent and literally have no idea on what they plan on doing with it. They've had over 9 years to do anything with it, sell it, demolish it, renovate it, house the homeless but nothing.

 

[Judge Fudge]

Just out of curiosity since I really don't know, how many of those arenas are state of the art though that Hansen is proposing? As well as NHL is the only main tenant? Don't most of those have a NCAA team that plays there? I really don't know on that.

Either way, the NBA, NHL and NCAA has all said no to Key Arena, hell toss minor league hockey in there too. It just makes no sense why Key Arena is even being discussed outside the fact that the leadership in Seattle are incompetent and literally have no idea on what they plan on doing with it. They've had over 9 years to do anything with it, sell it, demolish it, renovate it, house the homeless but nothing.

Off the top of my head. They are the only tenant ant the Bolded are state of the art

Columbus, Pittsburgh, Nashville, Florida, San Jose, Anaheim, Buffalo.

 

[JMR]

If I were a politician and wanted this whole thing to fail, I would push the Key Arena option hard. Slow play Hansen's private funding thing with the Key as the shiny object distraction. It's a proven non-starter.

 

[wazzu31]

Off the top of my head. They are the only tenant ant the Bolded are state of the art

Thanks, like I said I wasn't sure on those different arenas. With the Hansen proposal they've already conceded the NHL would most likely come first, which to my knowledge they've never been against just under the old MOU hockey coming first wasn't an option.

But, the main issue with NHL only in this area is that is either going to take a complete renovation of the Key or it won't be in the city of Seattle. Hansen owns essentially all the land available for a new arena. Would the NHL be happy with having a completely renovated Key Arena as a home?

Which would bring on the main question that the council has never really answered, how much public money are they willing to spend renovating the Key.

 

[Judge Fudge]

But, the main issue with NHL only in this area is that is either going to take a complete renovation of the Key or it won't be in the city of Seattle. Hansen owns essentially all the land available for a new arena. Would the NHL be happy with having a completely renovated Key Arena as a home?

The boyz in the NHL are chattering about this 2.

Found this gem that might answer some ??????

Group headed by Tim Leiweke interested in KeyArena renovation for NBA, NHL

AEG and MSG are good friends of guess who?

 

[wazzu31]

Ya, I read that too, not Leiweke and Bettman are friends, but he is interested in trying to renovate it. Is it possible, sure, but the money spent on it would be idiotic compared to the Sodo district, the traffic would become even more of a nightmare and it would essentially run off any one wanting to go to the Seattle Center now.

Like I said, I don't know shit about the NHL, but it doesn't make sense at all if you are a major sports league and you want to come into a new market and choose the minor league area instead of wanting the stadium district.

 

[Banned 10x]

Ya, I read that too, not Leiweke and Bettman are friends, but he is interested in trying to renovate it. Is it possible, sure, but the money spent on it would be idiotic compared to the Sodo district, the traffic would become even more of a nightmare and it would essentially run off any one wanting to go to the Seattle Center now.

Like I said, I don't know shit about the NHL, but it doesn't make sense at all if you are a major sports league and you want to come into a new market and choose the minor league area instead of wanting the stadium district.

Can you imagine the traffic on a Tuesday night on Mercer/Denny if there is a Basketball game/Hockey game at Key Arena, it's a disaster now with nothing going on there. They can't possibly consider this as a viable option.