Sam Martin Wins NFC Special Teams Player of the Week

[RobBase]

He does have you on this part swarm. If Joique and Tulloch don't count b/c Mayhew didn't draft them, you can't use the 4 starters you claimed from the Titans. My $.02....continue.....

I already retracted that. FA do not count. I can name 4 starters from the Titans 2008 team off the top of my head taken in round 4 or later. The Lions don't have that many in 5 years of the Amazing Mayhew running the show.

 

[RobBase]

Has this thread seriously turned into a Martin Mayhew is a good GM thread?

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

blind hatred for Mayhew it seems

Why would any Detroit fan have blind hatred for Mayhew? What exactly has he done drafting outside the 1st round for the Lions to give him praise?

There is no blind hatred, the hatred is staring every fan in the face.

Detroit has spent two 2nd, a 3rd and 5th round pick on the WR position -- The 2nd and 3rd rounder are out of the NFL and the 5th rounder is on the practice team. The other 2nd rounder is coming off back to back years with major knee surgery.

Detroit has traded up 3 times in the draft to take players. One in the 1st round, one in the 2nd round and one in the 5th round. Best is out of the NFL, LeShoure is sitting 3rd on the depth chart and Greenwood isn't on the team anymore.

Detroit has spent a 1st round and 2nd round pick on RBs, trading up both times to take the players. As stated already -- Best is out of the NFL and LeShoure couldn't even get a carry when Bush was out last game.

We've now spent a 2nd round, 2 3rd round, a 5th round and 6th round on CB's. Slay is a rookie, so he gets a pass. Bentley has been terrible, Spievey was released by the Lions, I think (could be wrong), Greenwood is no longer on the team and Green, I don't believe even sees the field now. Our CB play has been mediocre outside of Houston, that the Lions bring in Mathis from Jax and he wins a starting job over all the draft picks we spent.

That is why I have said -- it is the 2nd, 3rd and 4th round picks that have been killing the Lions. This year, Warford looks like a quality player. Verdict is still out on Slay, as rookies take some time to get acclimated to the NFL and Devin Taylor is getting thrown to the wolves and we shall see how he does now that Jason Jones is done.

Late round picks (5th-7th) if you find a quality player is a bonus. It is the 1st 3 or 4 rounds where you should be filling out your roster with starters and difference makers.

 

[Microwahevo]

Has this thread seriously turned into a Martin Mayhew is a good GM thread?

No. My main points were that Sam Martin seemed to deserve to be our starting punter, not just by default. Everything after has just been reading material for myself.

 

[Microwahevo]

Spievey was released by the Lions, I think (could be wrong

Doesn't matter. He sucks balls, unless you ask FaxBoy Bobby.

 

[RobBase]

No. My main points were that Sam Martin seemed to deserve to be our starting punter, not just by default. Everything after has just been reading material for myself.

I have never argued this? I can't believe a smart ass comment about a 5th rounder finally making this team has turned into 5 pages of shit. Actually, yes I can.

 

[Mebert]

Has this thread seriously turned into a Martin Mayhew is a good GM thread?

Not at all, my point all along has been that your claim that other GM's pull in more late round talent is wrong. At no point did I argue with you on his mid round picks, they have not been great.

I am tired of every week hearing you bitch and make claims that you can't back. If you want to make the argument that Mayhew has not done an acceptable job I won't argue. if you want to sit back and claim that every other teams starts lots of late round picks that they drafted then you are wrong.

And stop claiming we are using the same facts. I am using researched information, you are just saying stuff that you never verify.

 

[RobBase]

Not at all, my point all along has been that your claim that other GM's pull in more late round talent is wrong.

I give up. You're obviously retarded.

 

[Mebert]

I give up. You're obviously retarded.

I won't go into name calling, it is a weak argument of a person that has nothing else. Good luck in the future.

 

[RobBase]

I won't go into name calling, it is a weak argument of a person that has nothing else. Good luck in the future.

You are always bitching but you never bother to back up your claims. You just make a dumbass comment and scream prove me wrong, well I did what you asked. You are wrong about the Titans.

Fuck off Mebert. You're a stubborn fool.

 

[RobBase]

Mayhew is amazing! He's just like every other GM in the NFL who gets all his best players from round 1. How we are 23-42 under him I will never understand. He's the best.

 

[RobBase]

A closer look at Martin Mayhew's drafts - NFC North Blog - ESPN

More than anything, Mayhew's drafts lack the kind of volume that would have been necessary to fully restock the Lions' roster over a four-year period. Compare their raw numbers to the recent drafts of the Green Bay Packers, who are the NFL's gold standard draft-and-develop program.

The Packers have 26 players on their roster from their past four drafts, including 14 who spent time as 2012 starters. In fact, the Packers had a former draft pick or undrafted free agent start at every position last season, including place-kicker and punter.

 

[RobBase]

A closer look at Martin Mayhew's drafts - NFC North Blog - ESPN

More than anything, Mayhew's drafts lack the kind of volume that would have been necessary to fully restock the Lions' roster over a four-year period. Compare their raw numbers to the recent drafts of the Green Bay Packers, who are the NFL's gold standard draft-and-develop program.

The Packers have 26 players on their roster from their past four drafts, including 14 who spent time as 2012 starters. In fact, the Packers had a former draft pick or undrafted free agent start at every position last season, including place-kicker and punter.

 

[RobBase]

Not at all, my point all along has been that your claim that other GM's pull in more late round talent is wrong.

I am tired of every week hearing you bitch and make claims that you can't back. If you want to make the argument that Mayhew has not done an acceptable job I won't argue. if you want to sit back and claim that every other teams starts lots of late round picks that they drafted then you are wrong.

A closer look at Martin Mayhew's drafts - NFC North Blog - ESPN

More than anything, Mayhew's drafts lack the kind of volume that would have been necessary to fully restock the Lions' roster over a four-year period. Compare their raw numbers to the recent drafts of the Green Bay Packers, who are the NFL's gold standard draft-and-develop program.

The Packers have 26 players on their roster from their past four drafts, including 14 who spent time as 2012 starters. In fact, the Packers had a former draft pick or undrafted free agent start at every position last season, including place-kicker and punter.

 

[tpaulus_2]

To be fair, that's comparing him to the best in the business, not to the average GM.

The Packers are known for not signing free agents and only developing in house talent. I don't think anyone at all will argue that Mayhew is a better GM then Ted Thompson.

I think TrustMe nailed it when he said that Mayhew's downfall is with his 2nd to 4th round picks. Those guys should be the core of our team, and we just haven't gotten anything out of them. Not many GMs hit on late round (5th - 7th) picks, and generally, the better the team the less late round picks make the roster...

 

[RobBase]

Just for fun, here is the Bears. Not as impressive as the Packers, but still drives the point home. Also shows how bad Lovie was at offense. On the flip side, he had a knack for finding great defensive players after rounds 1 and 2.

Pos/Player/Age/How Acquired

QB: Jay Cutler, 30, Trade (2009)
RB: Matt Forte, 27, Rd.2 (2008)
FB: Tony Fiammetta, 26, FA (2013)
WR: Brandon Marshall, 29, Trade (2012)
WR: Alshon Jeffery, 23, Rd.2 (2012)
TE: Martellus Bennett, 26, Rd.2 (2008)
LT: Jermon Bushrod, 28, FA (2013)
LG: Matt Slauson, 27, FA (2013)
C: Roberto Garza, 34, FA (2005)
RG: Kyle Long, 24, Rd.1 (2013)
RT: J’Marcus Webb, 24, Rd.7 (2010)

DEFENSE
Pos/Player/Age/How Acquired

DE: Julius Peppers, 33, FA (2010)
DT: Henry Melton, 26, Rd.4 (2009)
DT: Stephen Paea, 25, Rd.2 (2011)
DE: Corey Wootton, 25, Rd.4 (2010)
OLB: Lance Briggs, 32, Rd.3 (2003)
ILB: DJ Williams, 30, FA, (2013)
OLB: Khaseem Greene, 24, Rd.4 (2013)
CB: Charles Tillman, 32, Rd.2 (2003)
CB: Tim Jennings, 29, FA (2010)
SS: Major Wright, 24, Rd.3 (2010)
FS: Chris Conte, 24, Rd.3 (2011)

 

[RobBase]

I think TrustMe nailed it when he said that Mayhew's downfall is with his 2nd to 4th round picks. Those guys should be the core of our team, and we just haven't gotten anything out of them. Not many GMs hit on late round (5th - 7th) picks, and generally, the better the team the less late round picks make the roster...

His downfall is drafting anyone outside of the top 5 picks. He nailed it taking Stafford over Smith and Curry despite mass pressure from the Lions fan base. He nailed it taking Suh over McCoy. Looks like he nailed it taking Ansah and keeping Reiff rather than trading up for another LT. After that it's all up for debate. Even Fairely. Love the guy, but an argument could be made that the Lions should have taken Robert Quinn or a couple of others.

And it is fair comparing the Lions to the Packers. That's who they have to beat to find success in the NFL. Bears and Packers. Until we are better or just as good as them, we'll be spinning our wheels.

 

[tpaulus_2]

Just for fun, here is the Bears. Not as impressive as the Packers, but still drives the point home. Also shows how bad Lovie was at offense. On the flip side, he had a knack for finding great defensive players after rounds 1 and 2.

Pos/Player/Age/How Acquired

QB: Jay Cutler, 30, Trade (2009)
RB: Matt Forte, 27, Rd.2 (2008)
FB: Tony Fiammetta, 26, FA (2013)
WR: Brandon Marshall, 29, Trade (2012)
WR: Alshon Jeffery, 23, Rd.2 (2012)
TE: Martellus Bennett, 26, Rd.2 (2008)
LT: Jermon Bushrod, 28, FA (2013)
LG: Matt Slauson, 27, FA (2013)
C: Roberto Garza, 34, FA (2005)
RG: Kyle Long, 24, Rd.1 (2013)
RT: J’Marcus Webb, 24, Rd.7 (2010)

DEFENSE
Pos/Player/Age/How Acquired

DE: Julius Peppers, 33, FA (2010)
DT: Henry Melton, 26, Rd.4 (2009)
DT: Stephen Paea, 25, Rd.2 (2011)
DE: Corey Wootton, 25, Rd.4 (2010)
OLB: Lance Briggs, 32, Rd.3 (2003)
ILB: DJ Williams, 30, FA, (2013)
OLB: Khaseem Greene, 24, Rd.4 (2013)
CB: Charles Tillman, 32, Rd.2 (2003)
CB: Tim Jennings, 29, FA (2010)
SS: Major Wright, 24, Rd.3 (2010)
FS: Chris Conte, 24, Rd.3 (2011)

I think that just drive's TrustMe's point home that where Mayhew is failing is in the middle rounds. There's no starters on that list that were drafted after the 4th round (Webb has been benched, possibly even cut, iirc). The core of that defense was built in rounds 2 through 4, which is exactly where Mayhew has done his worst work...

 

[RobBase]

I think that just drive's TrustMe's point home that where Mayhew is failing is in the middle rounds. There's no starters on that list that were drafted after the 4th round (Webb has been benched, possibly even cut, iirc). The core of that defense was built in rounds 2 through 4, which is exactly where Mayhew has done his worst work...

Right but I never argued that point. He is failing in the middle rounds. He is also failing in the late rounds. He's a draft failure after round 1.

 

[Mebert]

I think that just drive's TrustMe's point home that where Mayhew is failing is in the middle rounds. There's no starters on that list that were drafted after the 4th round (Webb has been benched, possibly even cut, iirc). The core of that defense was built in rounds 2 through 4, which is exactly where Mayhew has done his worst work...

Kinda the same point I was making too, I did get rude at the end there though.

I don't care overall how a starter came to be there, I care about talent level. The team is way better today then it was when Mayhew took over, and in that sense I am happy. I do think we need a better gm to move to the next level though. I will be curious to see how close the Lions come to the playoffs.