Sam Martin Wins NFC Special Teams Player of the Week

[Microwahevo]

The Lions have 0 starters taken after round 3 (and only 1 taken in round 3

Jason Fox(4th), Joique Bell(undrafted), Willie Young(7th round). Those are 3 right there. And I'm sure you'll say Bell and Young aren't starters, but they have started before and have contributed.

Just sayin'

 

[Mebert]

Late picks are starting for the Packers oline, they are not good. If you want to look at that oline and say the GM accomplished something because they are late round choices that is your call, but I would not want to have it.

 

[Mebert]

I've already presented the facts. The Lions have 0 starters taken after round 3 (and only 1 taken in round 3) while the majority of NFL teams do (including the Packers as you now know by looking). Feel free to verify my facts about the Titans too.

You did not present any facts on the Titans Defense, you made a statement about them and then backed it with nothing. As a general rule you can't put something forward as fact without proof.

 

[RobBase]

Jason Fox(4th), Joique Bell(undrafted), Willie Young(7th round). Those are 3 right there. And I'm sure you'll say Bell and Young aren't starters, but they have started before and have contributed.

Just sayin'

Bell was a FA

Late picks are starting for the Packers oline, they are not good. If you want to look at that oline and say the GM accomplished something because they are late round choices that is your call, but I would not want to have it.

So what are you guys arguing with me about lol

 

[Mebert]

So what are you guys arguing with me about lol

My argument is I would rather not have the late round picks starting if the end result was the packers Offensive line.

 

[RobBase]

My argument is I would rather not have the late round picks starting if the end result was the packers Offensive line.

Ya God forbid we had an O line capable of dominating the NFC North title for years. Cool argument bro.

 

[RobBase]

So we all agree Mayhew can't draft for shit in round 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7. *

At least we agree on that.

* except for punters.

 

[Mebert]

Ya God forbid we had an O line capable of dominating the NFC North title for years. Cool argument bro.

That team dominated the NFC north, the oline was horrible. 43 straight games without a 100 yard rusher and Rodgers is top 5 in hits taken every year.

See how my argument has information about the production of the relevant unit and not a generalization about the entire teams success?

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

So we all agree Mayhew can't draft for shit in round 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7. *

At least we agree on that.

* except for punters.

You won't hear me argue you with you there. I've said all along, Mayhew gets an A for his 1st round picks, but after that, he hasn't been very good at all.

I think why other agreed with my 2nd-4th comment is -- those are rounds you should still be finding quality starters and sometimes game changers. At the very least, you should be adding depth to your roster at position, so the drop off from starter to 2nd string isn't so big. That is where Detroit is lacking, IMO, with many of the quality teams in the NFL.

I believe Detroit's starters can hang with just about anyone (outside of a select few), but Detroit can't sustain many injuries and expect to make the playoffs, because some positions are so thin with talent.

Once you get to the 5th, 6th and 7th rounds -- you are just hoping to strike gold with a player who slipped thru the cracks or maybe a player who was a problem in college and a team wants to take a shot on him.

 

[RobBase]

That team dominated the NFC north, the oline was horrible. 43 straight games without a 100 yard rusher and Rodgers is top 5 in hits taken every year.

See how my argument has information about the production of the relevant unit and not a generalization about the entire teams success?

We aren't discussing what your personal opinion of the Packers O line is. The fact is they are a winning football team with multiple starters drafted in round 3 and later. Period.

 

[RobBase]

You won't hear me argue you with you there. I've said all along, Mayhew gets an A for his 1st round picks, but after that, he hasn't been very good at all.

I think why other agreed with my 2nd-4th comment is -- those are rounds you should still be finding quality starters and sometimes game changers. At the very least, you should be adding depth to your roster at position, so the drop off from starter to 2nd string isn't so big. That is where Detroit is lacking, IMO, with many of the quality teams in the NFL.

I believe Detroit's starters can hang with just about anyone (outside of a select few), but Detroit can't sustain many injuries and expect to make the playoffs, because some positions are so thin with talent.

Once you get to the 5th, 6th and 7th rounds -- you are just hoping to strike gold with a player who slipped thru the cracks or maybe a player who was a problem in college and a team wants to take a shot on him.

True. This is how teams approach these picks, but what comes of it are many starters league wide from rounds 5-7 and UNFA. The Lions have 1, their new punter. That's a fact, and that is my only point. It's a miracle a 5th rounder is a starter on this team when every other late round Mayhew pick has failed to do the same.

 

[RobBase]

You did not present any facts on the Titans Defense, you made a statement about them and then backed it with nothing. As a general rule you can't put something forward as fact without proof.

As a Lions fan, you should already know this. Schwartz has been our coach for 5 seasons and I can still picture the the graph of the Titans defense from cbssportsline where I took the time to see what kinds of players he coached, and where he got them from. For example, Steven Tulloch was a 4th rounder. Cortland Finnegan was a 7th rounder. Did you know that? I was really hoping we would see that kind of production from the draft when Schwartz came here. So far, no luck.

 

[Mebert]

We aren't discussing what your personal opinion of the Packers O line is. The fact is they are a winning football team with multiple starters drafted in round 3 and later. Period.

My personal opinion had statistics behind it.

 

[Mebert]

Titans Defense in 2008
4 1st round picks Bullock, Griffin, Haynesworth, Kearse
1 2nd round pick Jones
1 4th round pick Tulloch
1 7th round pick Finnegan
4 Signed FA Brown, Hope, Harper, Thornton

But sure LOADED with late round talent. I am glad you bother to know what you are talking about before you give your "facts" about it.

 

[RobBase]

Titans Defense in 2008
4 1st round picks Bullock, Griffin, Haynesworth, Kearse
1 2nd round pick Jones
1 4th round pick Tulloch
1 7th round pick Finnegan
4 Signed FA Brown, Hope, Harper, Thornton

But sure LOADED with late round talent. I am glad you bother to know what you are talking about before you give your "facts" about it.

Mebert, you're being a creep. This is twice now you've backed up my facts. 6 of the 11 starters on Schwartz' D taken in round 4 or later just like I said. Go be pissed at someone else for no reason.

edit: feel free to research all 5 years Schwartz was the DC there. Why only the 2008 team?

 

[Mebert]

Mebert, you're being a creep. This is twice now you've backed up my facts. 6 of the 11 starters on Schwartz' D taken in round 4 or later just like I said. Go be pissed at someone else for no reason.

edit: feel free to research all 5 years Schwartz was the DC there. Why only the 2008 team?

2 of 11, the other 4 are free agents that OTHER teams drafted. I did his last year because I was proving my point that you make wild claims with 0 basis in fact. If you feel like the other years might be different go ahead and prove it, but for god sake please for once have actual facts to back you up. You are always bitching but you never bother to back up your claims. You just make a dumbass comment and scream prove me wrong, well I did what you asked. You are wrong about the Titans.

 

[RobBase]

2 of 11, the other 4 are free agents that OTHER teams drafted. I did his last year because I was proving my point that you make wild claims with 0 basis in fact. If you feel like the other years might be different go ahead and prove it, but for god sake please for once have actual facts to back you up. You are always bitching but you never bother to back up your claims. You just make a dumbass comment and scream prove me wrong, well I did what you asked. You are wrong about the Titans.

All you've proven is that you're too stubbord to admit when you're wrong and that apparently you have a personal issue with me. Whether it's 2 or 11, the fact remains Schwartz had MULTIPLE STARTERS taken in LATE ROUNDS just like I said (and in your example, 2 Pro Bowlers). Same with the Packers. The Lions don't. Talk to me when Jason Fox starts more than 1 game after several years on the team. Talk to me when a 5th, 6th, or 7th rounder comes in and starts for us.

You want to prove me wrong? Go find a team where their only starter taken after round 4 is their punter. Maybe the Raiders or maybe the Jagaurs are as bad as the Lions.

 

[Mebert]

In your initial argument you claimed that signed free agents don't count for Mayhew, but with the Titans they count now? By the parameters that YOU set you are wrong. Can you really not remember saying Tulloch and Joique Bell don't count because they are FA's?

How can you claim I am wrong, I am using facts that have been researched with my claims, you are using......... I am not sure, blind hatred for Mayhew it seems.

I don't have a personal issue with you, just with this dead horse you keep kicking and never backing. I see you tried, and when you hold the Lions to different standard then you do other teams you are right they are way worse.

 

[RobBase]

In your initial argument you claimed that signed free agents don't count for Mayhew, but with the Titans they count now? By the parameters that YOU set you are wrong. Can you really not remember saying Tulloch and Joique Bell don't count because they are FA's?

I already corrected that mistake by saying 2 of 11............doesn't change anything. It's still 2 more guys than the Lions have ever had, which proves my point. And that's just the D. Two of the Titans veteran O Lineman from the Schwartz era were taken in late rounds too. But I'm sure you already know that right?

How can you claim I am wrong, I am using facts that have been researched with my claims, you are using......... I am not sure, blind hatred for Mayhew it seems.

I'm not even sure how to respond to you anymore. We share the same facts Mebert. Now we both know Schwartz coached great players taken in late rounds when with TN. We both know the Packers have multiple late rounders starting for them. Are you seriously arguing that no players taken after round 3 never become starters for other NFL teams?

Keep giving Mayhew and his 23-42 record a free pass bro. He's amazing! He's just like every other GM in the league. That's why the Lions are so successful with the draft. Do you want to start comparing all of Mayhew's 2nd round busts vs. all those 2nd rounders you listed for the Titans?

 

[Microwahevo]

Can you really not remember saying Tulloch and Joique Bell don't count because
they are FA's?

He does have you on this part swarm. If Joique and Tulloch don't count b/c Mayhew didn't draft them, you can't use the 4 starters you claimed from the Titans. My $.02....continue.....