Redskins' Kirk Cousins: Still far apart on extension terms

[Sharkinva]

Strait up, if Kirk isnt on a long term deal for 2017, I dont think there will be a number the Skins could give him to stay. And if he has a year good enough to make some of you guys want to keep him, it means he is elite and doesnt NEED the Redskins any more.

 

[Sleepy T]

Giving up two first rounders AND $25M plus a year might have had something to do with it.

Look fellas, you get your wish... Kirk is basically on borrowed time. Next year they will make the argument that Kirk would cost too much, and the Redskins will once again be the team giving up multiple picks for a rookie.

Dont say i didnt warn you.

True. Brainfart. I forgot about that little detail.

But still, if KC is transitioned, offered a contract and we match it, he's ours. He can't sign with the other team. If he isn't signed (or offered) before Monday, I will suspect that may have been the play by the FO all along? See how he plays this year...and if he convinces the FO, we will sign him. As Dean said, let the other team set the market.

 

[Sharkinva]

True. Brainfart. I forgot about that little detail.

But still, if KC is transitioned, offered a contract and we match it, he's ours. He can't sign with the other team. If he isn't signed (or offered) before Monday, I will suspect that may have been the play by the FO all along? See how he plays this year...and if he convinces the FO, we will sign him. As Dean said, let the other team set the market.

The one thing Dean doesnt mention, but I suspect he is counting on is... What if Kirk decides he is fed up with the Bullshit?? As I mentioned else where, if Kirk performs well enough to make the ABC crowd want to keep him, it likely means he has performed well enough that he doesnt NEED the Redskins any more. Because it means he has reached elite, or close to it. And as many around here have preached, an elite QB can go any place and win.

 

[Sleepy T]

The one thing Dean doesnt mention, but I suspect he is counting on is... What if Kirk decides he is fed up with the Bullshit?? As I mentioned else where, if Kirk performs well enough to make the ABC crowd want to keep him, it likely means he has performed well enough that he doesnt NEED the Redskins any more. Because it means he has reached elite, or close to it. And as many around here have preached, an elite QB can go any place and win.

Maybe he will be fed up? Maybe he will be happy because this will definitely mean he will get the richest contract in NFL history.

But once again...If we transition him, he gets an offer sheet elsewhere and we match. He MUST sign with us correct?? No ifs, ands, or buts...

What are his other options? He doesn't sign it or holds out? Then he doesn't get paid?

 

[Sharkinva]

Maybe he will be fed up?

But once again...If we transition him, he gets an offer sheet elsewhere and we match. He MUST sign with us correct?? No ifs, ands, or buts...

What are his other options? He doesn't sign it or holds out? Then he doesn't get paid?

Actually if they trans tag him or Franchise tag him, I would expect him to sign it right away.

At which point he plays on the tag one more year and really becomes unaffordable.

Also have to ask... If Kirk WASNT worth $20M last year, and he Isnt worth $24M this year, what on earth makes you think the Front Office will think he is worth $28-35M a year next year??

 

[Skin'EmAll]

Actually if they trans tag him or Franchise tag him, I would expect him to sign it right away.

At which point he plays on the tag one more year and really becomes unaffordable.

Also have to ask... If Kirk WASNT worth $20M last year, and he Isnt worth $24M this year, what on earth makes you think the Front Office will think he is worth $28-35M a year next year??

This is what I don't get with some folks here, obviously if I'm wrong on the 17th and in 2018 -- i'll be shocked but Dan and Bruce have crossed the line. The 17th is the last shot to keep Cousins -- next year expect several teams to break the bank for him. Put him on any NFL team with a top 10 defense and they are conference champs on paper. If no LTD is reached -- enjoy Cousins for the last time.

 

[Sharkinva]

This is what I don't get with some folks here, obviously if I'm wrong on the 17th and in 2018 -- i'll be shocked but Dan and Bruce have crossed the line. The 17th is the last shot to keep Cousins -- next year expect several teams to break the bank for him. Put him on any NFL team with a top 10 defense and they are conference champs on paper. If no LTD is reached -- enjoy Cousins for the last time.

Much like Bruce and Dan, I think alot of guys here want to have their cake and eat it to.

By that i mean, they want to hang onto Kirk and maintain the ability to force him to stay IF he becomes elite.

But they also want the team to maintain a position where in they can draft or trade up for one of these uber exciting rookies next year, should Kirk turn out to be just a good, yet boring QB.

 

[Sleepy T]

Actually if they trans tag him or Franchise tag him, I would expect him to sign it right away.

At which point he plays on the tag one more year and really becomes unaffordable.

Also have to ask... If Kirk WASNT worth $20M last year, and he Isnt worth $24M this year, what on earth makes you think the Front Office will think he is worth $28-35M a year next year??

Not saying they will feel that he is worth that. We would see in due time.

But you still haven't answered the question. IF we transition him, AND he tests the market (and I expect he would) AND we match the offer, then he MUST sign with US under the conditions of the other team. Not optional for KC.. Correct??

 

[Sleepy T]

Much like Bruce and Dan, I think alot of guys here want to have their cake and eat it to.

By that i mean, they want to hang onto Kirk and maintain the ability to force him to stay IF he becomes elite.

But they also want the team to maintain a position where in they can draft or trade up for one of these uber exciting rookies next year, should Kirk turn out to be just a good, yet boring QB.

Well why the heck wouldn't the FO office look out for its best interests and keep the options open? Why wouldn't we force his hand? His agent agent doesn't mind playing hardball, why should they?

In that scenario, they would have paid KC handsomely ($45 mill) for 2 good years of work. That's about as much as anyone over any 2 years in history. Despite no big money offer...that's hardly a disservice. KC doesn't mind taking the tag money, and apparently Dan don't mind paying it. Why shouldn't we try to retain his rights if we choose to do so?

This "Bruce-Dan are crooked jerks/Poor Pitiful Kirk" narrative is old. It's bidness. We would be offering upwards of $30 mill a year and he is still being wronged???

And the drafting of an elite QB. Please stop man. No one has a crystal ball about what might happen a year from now at the draft.

 

[Sharkinva]

Not saying they will feel that he is worth that. We would see in due time.

But you still haven't answered the question. IF we transition him, AND he tests the market (and I expect he would) AND we match the offer, then he MUST sign with US under the conditions of the other team. Not optional for KC.. Correct??

Sure, you are absolutely right.

But the reality is this.

If you and I are both in a car dealership, and we are both looking at the same car. If the salesman comes up and says, Shark is willing to match ANY offer you put on the table. What are your options??

1. You could try and put out an offer I wont match
2. You could just say, fuck it Im not going to negotiate for some one else.

I think if they trans tag him, most teams will simply say its not worth the trouble, or will try and put together a deal we cant match without having to do a bunch of other cap gymnastics. If im the Niners or Browns, and I really want Kirk, I do myself a solid and front load the deal to make Kirk happy, and do it in such a way that Washington cant match it without reworking and or cutting other players.


Bottom line, last year was the best time to sign him long term, but they screwed that up. This year is he second best time to do it, but IM pretty sure they are going to fuck it up again, Next year, if he performs the way he would have to to make Dan, Bruce and the ABC crowd happy, some one will make him an offer we cant match.

 

[Sharkinva]

Well why the heck wouldn't the FO office look out for its best interests and keep the options open? Why wouldn't we force his hand? His agent agent doesn't mind playing hardball, why should they?

In that scenario, they would have paid KC handsomely ($45 mill) for 2 good years of work. That's about as much as anyone over any 2 years in history. Despite no big money offer...that's hardly a disservice. KC doesn't mind taking the tag money, and apparently Dan don't mind paying it. Why shouldn't we try to retain his rights if we choose to do so?

This "Bruce-Dan are crooked jerks/Poor Pitiful Kirk" narrative is old. It's bidness. We would be offering upwards of $30 mill a year and he is still being wronged???

And the drafting of an elite QB. Please stop man. No one has a crystal ball about what might happen a year from now at the draft.

If it was really just bidness, this deal would have been done already. Dan and Bruce are dragging ass on this because its personal. I expect them to look out for the teams best interest. BUt I dont think the whole keep our options open in this case is good bidness.

options are

1. Kirk satisfies the he aint elite faction, and we pay a shit ton more to keep him.
2. Kirk stays about where he is, which is actually a good QB, we still pay a shit ton more to keep him
3. Kirk stays where he is, the team decides to move on... and we pay a shit ton in draft capitol to trade up because Dan, Bruce and the fan base wont be happy to settle for the 4th or 5th rated QB in the draft.

4. Kirk Fails, Dan and Bruce look smart for tagging him and we get to trade slightly less to get the golden child.

5. Kirk fails spectacularly and we get to draft the golden child without trading up.

In only two of these scenarios does the current bidness plan make any sense.

But you know, Im actually hoping they dont get a deal done at this point.

 

[gkekoa]

yes we can our cap would be 59 mil and 79 mil respectively

FAs for 2018

Kirk Cousins- 24

Terrell Pryor- 6

Shaun Lauvao- 5

Zachary Brown- 2.5

Mason Foster

Will Compton

Breeland

Long

Murphy


So...who do you resign? KC, Pryor, Breeland, and Long will not be cheap and eat up all of that space, especially if KC is taking up 35 mil of it trying to equal a contract of SF.

As for looking at what the NYJ did to free space, they got rid of everybody not named Wilkerson or is on their rookie contract.

 

[Sharkinva]

FAs for 2018

Kirk Cousins- 24

Terrell Pryor- 6

Shaun Lauvao- 5

Zachary Brown- 2.5

Mason Foster

Will Compton

Breeland

Long

Murphy


So...who do you resign? KC, Pryor, Breeland, and Long will not be cheap and eat up all of that space, especially if KC is taking up 35 mil of it trying to equal a contract of SF.

As for looking at what the NYJ did to free space, they got rid of everybody not named Wilkerson or is on their rookie contract.

Yet another reason why kicking the can makes zero sense, unless the plan is to draft a QB next year. Kirk at $25M a year is doable, Kirk at $28-35 means, we aint resigning somebody.

 

[gkekoa]

Yet another reason why kicking the can makes zero sense, unless the plan is to draft a QB next year. Kirk at $25M a year is doable, Kirk at $28-35 means, we aint resigning somebody.

Exactly. We can't afford 35 million in 2018 for KC. Pryor will get 10 mil, Long will get 5 mil, Breeland will get 7 mil...and these are minimums.

 

[Sharkinva]

Exactly. We can't afford 35 million in 2018 for KC. Pryor will get 10 mil, Long will get 5 mil, Breeland will get 7 mil...and these are minimums.

At the risk of sounding repetitive...

Having Kirk play on the tag again is saying you hope he improves, but expecting him to fail. Because he aint getting any cheaper, and the only way they look smart on this is if he completely fails.

 

[Skin'EmAll]

I think folks assume we can hit on a 1st round QB, with the rookie pay scale and then go spend in FA and have the same team or better within two years of Kirk's departure. The owner likes changing the face of the team every few years and that hasn't worked, so a LTD would have been a breath of fresh air

 

[Sleepy T]

Yet another reason why kicking the can makes zero sense, unless the plan is to draft a QB next year. Kirk at $25M a year is doable, Kirk at $28-35 means, we aint resigning somebody.

Exactly. We can't afford 35 million in 2018 for KC. Pryor will get 10 mil, Long will get 5 mil, Breeland will get 7 mil...and these are minimums.

Who says we will have to pay $35 million? That is the peak of the roof...not the ceiling. Only way i see him getting that kind of money from us or anyone else (if we transition him is)...

A) We go deep into the playoffs and he asserts himself as one of the Top few QBs in the game. As I think someone else said, other players could restructure to continue playing for a winner.

B) He goes to a crappy team with crappy players with tons of cap space.

And if he takes us deep, we aren't going to be worried about losing Breeland, Lauvao, some of those guys.

Further more, If he signed with us (LTD or through the TT), wouldn't that spread the cap hit out? You guys are assuming we FT him again and have a cap hit of 35 mill??

 

[chillerdab]

First of all, some of those free agents mentioned above will play poorer than expected this year, thus rendering them cheaper than previously imagined. Some of the free agents above will play about as expected, then get a similar contract. Probably some of the free agents next year exceed expectations, then get paid handsomely.
Probably also, some of those free agents aren't even welcomed back by the team, and get no contract offer. It's the nature of the business.

KC absolutely SHOULD be signed this year, and even if he MUST sign under the transition tag (with the redskins matching some other offer), it is very likely that he is extremely psyched about it, especially after being dicked around by this front office for 3 years.

Though his only other option would be to hold out, I doubt he would do that, considering "it's not about the money."

Right Shark?

 

[chillerdab]

Case in point:

RIGHT NOW, without any of these players playing a single down for the redskins in 2017, how many of these 2018 free agents are ones the redskins MUST RESIGN NOW!!!

Kirk Cousins- Absolutely!

Terrell Pryor- Who knows, really? You could say yes considering previous success with crappy qb play in Cleveland, but that doesn't mean that Pryor will be awesome here?

Shaun Lauvao- No.

Zachary Brown- No. Not yet at least.

Mason Foster - No.

Will Compton - No, though the Redskins can't get rid of all three ILB's without a conceivable back up plan.

Breeland - Playing on borrowed time. Drafted Fuller last year, two guys this year.

Long - Put up or shut up year. So, as of right now, no.

Murphy - As of right now, no.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

I think folks assume we can hit on a 1st round QB, with the rookie pay scale and then go spend in FA and have the same team or better within two years of Kirk's departure. The owner likes changing the face of the team every few years and that hasn't worked, so a LTD would have been a breath of fresh air

List of Washington Redskins starting quarterbacks - Wikipedia

I would throw out the names RG3, Campbell, Ramsey & Shuler - QBs the Skins drafted in the 1st rd. How about QBs that they acquired via trades/free agency - Grossman, Beck, McNabb, Brunell, Banks, George, etc. Save for a very short period of time for certain QBs Cousins is the only Redskins QB that has done anything for this team in the last 20 years.

Take a look at the history of the Redskins QBs in the link above - pretty depressing. Sure Cousins has his flaws but nowhere near to the degree of the other QBs. To expect this team to find another even serviceable QB (especially w/ their dysfunctional organization) is just plain stupid (not saying it can't happen - but the odds are not in their favor).

I find it amusing that some folks here believe that he only way Cousins warrants a LTD is to either make the SB or come very, very close. Ridiculous. What if say they make the playoffs & lose in the 1st rd & Cousins has a stellar (pro bowl) season & most of the losses are not due to him? You can't simply paint these black & white situations about whether to pay him or not and you can't eliminate the element of risk for all of this. Let's hope that they settle this by Mon. HTTR.