Nobody is talking about Brees deal huh?

[Brees#1]

Great because with this Saints Team, Next Year is Sooooo Much Better than This Year.

Guess what, You will have tons of cap space when Brees retires too. Too bad you did not have that space when it mattered, like the last 8 years.....

Why did he not do this before the offseason and maybe give the Saints a chance to fill some holes.

I don't know. I have not liked Brees off the football field personally.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

This is spot on and one of the reasons the media is like pesky mosquito: They flock to where there is blood -ref: bountygate- and ignore interesting subjects where there is no mass appeal. Brees is a very accurate, very good QB, but has been surrounded by a crappy defense in his most productive years.
Agree that this extension of his contract was necessary for Saints, he is their best player.

Agree, but kinda the "grass is greener on the other side" mentality plays into that. Lets say they traded Brees and got the top QB next year (or top two with Cle). Then 3 years down the line they realize they have a bust and traded their only decent shot at a wild card game in 2016/17 for 4+ years of 2-6 win football and are right back where the pre-Brees saints are?

Think of the Rams... Got all those picks for RGIII thinking they could build their team and address the QB through other means...

And what do they have of that haul?
2 RB's off the roster
1 WR off the roster
1 good CB on the Giants
1 G off the roster
1 solid run stuff DT
1 OLB moving to MLB
1 LT trying to avoid bust status by showing up to camp 20 lbs overweight this year.

...and after a bunch of 6-7 win years, basically traded back that worth for Goff.


I think if Brees played like last year and the D was just bad, they could have pushed for a wild card spot.



I'm agreeing with what they did, cheaper than slapping a franchise tag on him next year by 16 mil give or take. But not 100% onboard, more like 60/40.

Good post.

The guy is 36 or 37 y/o now. The real issue to me is can they put enough talent around Brees within the next 3 years to make one last run at a SB? If the answer is yes (meaning they will be 10-6 or better the next 3 yrs)...he's worth it to the Saints imo.

But, if they're going to be 7-9, 8-8, maybe 9-7 with Brees and no real chance to contend, they would've been better off trading Brees LY to a team like the Rams. Investing in a young QB, build the DEF and maybe 3-4 yrs down the road they have a realistic chance again.

You mentioned the Rams...not every draft pick worked out, but they had nearly all of the pieces required for a nice 3 or 4 yr playoff run, but the QB kept getting hurt, and they finally decided to go in another direction...basically buzzards luck.

 

[shopson67]

Good post.

The guy is 36 or 37 y/o now. The real issue to me is can they put enough talent around Brees within the next 3 years to make one last run at a SB? If the answer is yes (meaning they will be 10-6 or better the next 3 yrs)...he's worth it to the Saints imo.

But, if they're going to be 7-9, 8-8, maybe 9-7 with Brees and no real chance to contend, they would've been better off trading Brees LY to a team like the Rams. Investing in a young QB, build the DEF and maybe 3-4 yrs down the road they have a realistic chance again.

You mentioned the Rams...not every draft pick worked out, but they had nearly all of the pieces required for a nice 3 or 4 yr playoff run, but the QB kept getting hurt, and they finally decided to go in another direction...basically buzzards luck.

Not many teams (including the Rams) can absorb Brees' salary.

 

[molsaniceman]

Not many teams (including the Rams) can absorb Brees' salary.

Browns/niners/jags could

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Not many teams (including the Rams) can absorb Brees' salary.

That much is true.

 

[Kold]

This contract was a STEAL for us. Even the deal before this one was a steal considering what guys like Tony Romo and Jay Cutler are getting. The first contract didn't put us in a hole(as some may think), but what did put us in a hole, cap wise was paying Junior Gallette, Browner, Champ Bailey, Jairus Byrd, Keenan Lewis amongst others to go along with Graham's dead money. I never blamed F.O for making those deals because they were the right calls at the time. It's just that injuries, off the field incidents(Galette), or looking for o-line help(Graham) caused us to release these guys

 

[Rockinkuwait]

Not many teams (including the Rams) can absorb Brees' salary.

??????? Rams had 58 mil (and another 6 mil in cap space by letting go of Foles) entering FA. I think they were 4th most available money. Now, yes Brees wouldn't have been available to most teams, but entering FA, a lot of them could have made a deal.

 

[Brees#1]

I've got no faith in a D relying on Laurinaitis at this point in his career. He'll still get his tackles, just 5 yards farther down field that you'd like.

who's the new rams signal caller on defense?

 

[Brees#1]

This dead money issue has been building for years. I would be interested to see which team in the league has done the most restructures of deals over the last 5 years but I would bet NO is in the top-2 or 3 teams in the league for that issue. I think they thought with Brees in his prime that they needed to do as much as possible to build around him knowing a day of reckoning would eventually come. Well that day has come this year and even some next year as that $20 million next year really isn't all that great either. Draft class can cost anywhere from $6-7 million. Need another $3-5 million for just the season in general. Then RFA's usually take up another $2-7 million depending how many you have and want to keep. They also don't have anybody but Kenny Vacaro that they can cut, get a nice chunk of cap space, and not have a big dead money hit. So that would mean if they want to sign anybody they would have to restructure another deal once again. The best thing the Saints can do is pretty much this year stick with what they got now that they did the Brees deal and then just know next year that other than maybe 1-2 smaller deals in FA they are just going to have to depend on draft picks to carry them for a bit until Brees' cap hits and dead money get off the books.

Are you so sure that's how that works? Drafted players get paid 1 million? 20 million is not enough to sign impactful players? That's how much teams like GB have each year?

 

[cdumler7]

Are you so sure that's how that works? Drafted players get paid 1 million? 20 million is not enough to sign impactful players? That's how much teams like GB have each year?

I don't think you realize how quickly that money gets taken up. Just before you even start signing other players you have the draft class that will cost you around $6-7 million of that $20 million. You have your Practice Squad that you have to account for that adds another $3 million or so. I have no clue if there are any contracts with incentives that will need to be paid out on next years cap so that could be another $3-4 million. You have your RFA and ERFA's that you want to re-sign that depend on how many of those you want to keep. Then finally you need to allow another $3-5 million in money saved up in case of injuries and the need to sign players throughout the season. So right there you have already used up possibly $15 million of that $20 million. What kind of impact player can you really sign for $5 million these days that isn't a kicker?

 

[Brees#1]

The saints have to restructure a couple players. Morestead is making 5 million and he's a punter. They might get rid of some players as well like Byrd.

 

[cdumler7]

The saints have to restructure a couple players. Morestead is making 5 million and he's a punter. They might get rid of some players as well like Byrd.

See and this is what I pointed out earlier in that the Saints really don't have a lot of players they can cut and get a huge return cap wise. Byrd is a great example. That would be an $8 million dead money hit and only a $3.7 million savings. And I guess you can restructure some deals but that is exactly what has gotten the Saints in the situation they are in by restructuring deals and pushing dead money hits down the road. At some point if the Saints are actually serious about getting their cap under control they just have to say we are done doing that and will take our medicine. That is what the Raiders finally had to do and it meant they had a couple of terrible years cap wise but it set them up to actually build a team. Now we have to see if they actually spent their money wisely but the Saints just have not made great decisions money wise and just continuing to do that year after year is not a wise decision for the short or long future of the team.

 

[shopson67]

who's the new rams signal caller on defense?

Ogletree. In fact, the Rams offense has basically morphed into a 4-1-6, with 3 starting CBs and 3 starting S, with Ogletree as the only starting LB (although Barron is a hybrid OLB/S). Coach Williams getting creative, but worries me a bit about stopping the run.

 

[shopson67]

The saints have to restructure a couple players. Morestead is making 5 million and he's a punter. They might get rid of some players as well like Byrd.

I was upset when Byrd left the Bills, but he was massively overpaid and hasn't been the same (largely due to injury of course). Unfortunate.

 

[shopson67]

??????? Rams had 58 mil (and another 6 mil in cap space by letting go of Foles) entering FA. I think they were 4th most available money. Now, yes Brees wouldn't have been available to most teams, but entering FA, a lot of them could have made a deal.

Rams also had a LOT of free agents to re-sign. They had to let Jenkins go because they couldn't afford to re-sign all of them. That cap space wasn't with a full roster in place by any stretch. Some of that cap space was from letting go past-their-prime leaders as well (Long, Laurinaitis) which necessitated some of the signings of their in-house replacements.

Tim Barnes - starting center
Mark Barron - starting OLB/S hybrid
Benny Cunningham - #2 RB and special teams
Cody Davis - depth safety
Corey Harkey - blocking TE/H-back
William Hayes - starting DE
Trumaine Johnson - starting CB
Case Keenum - starting/bridge QB to Goff
Brian Quick - depth WR (sometimes starter)
Chase Reynolds - depth RB and special teams
Eugene Sims - rotational DE
Greg Zuerlein - kicker

 

[shopson67]

Think of the Rams... Got all those picks for RGIII thinking they could build their team and address the QB through other means...

And what do they have of that haul?
2 RB's off the roster
1 WR off the roster
1 good CB on the Giants
1 G off the roster
1 solid run stuff DT
1 OLB moving to MLB
1 LT trying to avoid bust status by showing up to camp 20 lbs overweight this year.

...and after a bunch of 6-7 win years, basically traded back that worth for Goff.

OK, that is a highly biased assessment of the players obtained in that trade. But let's start off with the QB position itself. The Rams ALREADY HAD their supposed QB of the future in Bradford, he just ultimately could not stay healthy. Are you telling me they would've been better off with RG3 and what he has become, instead of 3 impact defensive starters in Brockers, Ogletree and Jenkins (one which left this offseason for more money) and an LT in Robinson (who at worst will be a strong G if moved back inside)? That WR off the roster was due to an offseason gunshot wound to the head; otherwise he would still be a solid depth WR on the roster as well (and maybe will be again someday, but that's a tough injury to recover from).

RG3 is VY2

 

[tducey]

Meh, it's a good deal. Guy has done wonders for the team. Keeps him there for 2 more yrs. Maybe allows them to develop a new #1 QB for 2018 while he's still there.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

OK, that is a highly biased assessment of the players obtained in that trade. But let's start off with the QB position itself. The Rams ALREADY HAD their supposed QB of the future in Bradford, he just ultimately could not stay healthy. Are you telling me they would've been better off with RG3 and what he has become, instead of 3 impact defensive starters in Brockers, Ogletree and Jenkins (one which left this offseason for more money) and an LT in Robinson (who at worst will be a strong G if moved back inside)? That WR off the roster was due to an offseason gunshot wound to the head; otherwise he would still be a solid depth WR on the roster as well (and maybe will be again someday, but that's a tough injury to recover from).

RG3 is VY2

Not really biased..... As an Eagles fan, nobody is happier RGIII didn't work out in Washington more than me.


But these are the guys...

Zac Stacy. currently out of league.

Rokevious Watkins. Currently out of league.

Isiah Pead. Currently in Miami

Steadman Bailey. Currently in a non-football role with the Rams. Tough situation, agreed, and hope things work out.

Greg Robinson. Constantly beaten and penalized. Made PFF's "worst player at tackle" award last season. He may be a decent guard as long as he doesn't look as off balance as he did his rookie year at guard when he came in and Chris Long was still playing. I'm not sure Colts fans loved that about Tony Mandarich. You don't want a possible decent Guard with the #2 pick when you really need a blindside tackle. You can get Kyle Long in the 2nd half of the first round who actually was a great guard.

Janoris Jenkins. Currently a NYG (good CB, but his impact when on the team was making them 6-7 win teams).

Michael Brockers. I like him as a run stuffing tackle. Gets to play off Aaron Donald as well.

Alec Ogletree. I liked as a Will LB before he broke his leg. Now trying to play the Mike. Jury is out.


As for better off with RGIII? I don't know. That's a pile of cap space spent on all those players and right now, RGIII has been a vital part of his team getting to the playoffs more than all those guys combined.

I agree with their situation at the time of having Bradford, they made the right call to trade for that haul. But more and more it's looking like STL might not get the return from those picks they thought they would.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

And not saying Robinson WILL be a bust... Just that he has been one of, if not the worst starting tackle in the league since being drafted. Now the flip side is you guys had another tackle who really struggled (esp with pass protection) early on. Orlando Pace. Then a light clicked in year 3 for him. But here's just how bad Robinson has been. Already more career holding penalties than Pace.

 

[Eugene Baker III]

I guess it was just an expected move considering his cap hit. At the same time when they seem to be trying to get their cap situation under control just seems like once again let's push the issue to another season and just hope that Brees doesn't continue with his decline. The last 5 years his yards and touchdowns have declined every single season from the year before.

He is shrinking.