Let's be honest, Kobe is the Greatest Of All Time

[WiggyRuss]

As much as I am not exactly a huge fan of the Lakers-it would be a shame of Kobe went out like this- injured after 2 miserable non-playoff seasons- and getting swept outta the playoffs in the previous season

he deserves better than that.

 

[trojanfan12]

I just assumed everyone knew that to begin with and was not using that as a deciding factor. In fact though Kobe has had to carry a lot more weight in all five championship runs then Lebron or Michael Jordan had to carry even though Michael was the greatest of all time and able to carry more if required.

 

[DJ]

Kobe isn't going to win any more - but the last time I checked 5 is still much better then 1 by Lebron. Only a small handful of players in the NBA that have won five titles in their career - and all of them were Lakers at the time.

See how that worked?

Just 1 for LeBron?

 

[WiggyRuss]

Duncan or Kobe all time?

I think they are both VERY VERY CLOSE....

 

[trojanfan12]

Duncan or Kobe all time?

I think they are both VERY VERY CLOSE....

Yeah, they are. I'd give the slightest of edges to Kobe because Duncan has never been able to complete a back to back and only made the finals in consecutive seasons once. Plus Kobe is the only player in history with over 30,000 and over 6,000 assists. That says a lot too.

It's damn close though. A very strong argument could be made for giving Timmy a slight edge over Kobe too.

 

[WiggyRuss]

LeBron turned 30 in December

he has

2 Championships
2 Finals MVP's
5 Finals Appearances

10 time All Star
8 time All NBA First Team
2 time All NBA Second Team

1 NBA Defensive Player of the Year Runner-Up
5 time All-NBA 1st Team Defense
2 time All-NBA 2nd Team Defense

Rookie of the Year
1 time NBA Scoring Champ

7th all time in triple doubles with 38


Kobe Bryant
5 time NBA Champion
2 time Finals MVP
7 Final Appearances

1 MVP Award
11 All-NBA First Teams
4 All-NBA Second Teams

15 time all star
9 time First Team Defense
3 time Second team defense

19 career triple doubles
his 81 point game

2 time scoring champ (from what i saw- that doesnt seem right though)

 

[DJ]

Kobe's been voted into the All star game 17 times.

 

[WiggyRuss]

If LeBron had a career ending injury tomorrow you would have to give it to Kobe-

but LeBron just turned 30- and Kobe is 36. LeBron has a lot of time to add to his resume while Kobe has anywhere from 1 years (least)- to what..? 3 years max? to add?

will be interesting

LeBron with the 4 MVP's trails only Kareem and Jordan in that area- and Jordan is the best of all time and Kareem is top 5....

Kobe only has the 1- but i think he got robbed in one season from what i remember..

 

[Mecca]

Duncan or Kobe all time?

I think they are both VERY VERY CLOSE....

I say Duncan for 3 very good reasons:

1. I am a hater

2. Duncan's teams have been a model of consistency his entire career. Yes, that has more to do with the supporting cast around him. But, Duncan's contributions to that streak of 50 plus win Seasons has been EPIC.

3. The way their careers will end. I hope this isn't the end of the road for Kobe. I hate the Lakers. But, we are witnessing greatness and he deserves a better send off. Even if he comes back for another Season, what's the odds of him getting ring #6?

We live in a " What have you done for me lately" kind of Society. Duncan will possibly leave this Season behind while riding on another parade float while Kobe had to leave it riding on a stretcher.

Tiiiiiiiiiiiiiimmy....especially if he gets #6.

 

[trojanfan12]

If LeBron had a career ending injury tomorrow you would have to give it to Kobe-

but LeBron just turned 30- and Kobe is 36. LeBron has a lot of time to add to his resume while Kobe has anywhere from 1 years (least)- to what..? 3 years max? to add?

will be interesting

LeBron with the 4 MVP's trails only Kareem and Jordan in that area- and Jordan is the best of all time and Kareem is top 5....

Kobe only has the 1- but i think he got robbed in one season from what i remember..

Yeah, he still teases Steve Nash by telling him that one of his MVP's should have been his.

 

[trojanfan12]

I say Duncan for 3 very good reasons:

1. I am a hater

2. Duncan's teams have been a model of consistency his entire career. Yes, that has more to do with the supporting cast around him. But, Duncan's contributions to that streak of 50 plus win Seasons has been EPIC.

3. The way their careers will end. I hope this isn't the end of the road for Kobe. I hate the Lakers. But, we are witnessing greatness and he deserves a better send off. Even if he comes back for another Season, what's the odds of him getting ring #6?

We live in a " What have you done for me lately" kind of Society. Duncan will possibly leave this Season behind while riding on another parade float while Kobe had to leave it riding on a stretcher.

Tiiiiiiiiiiiiiimmy....especially if he gets #6.

I don't see where any of the 3 reasons are any good.

1.) For obvious reasons.
2.) Timmy and Kobe don't have much control over what the FO does.
3.) A players career ending because of injury isn't his fault and holding it against them is rather lame and reverts back to reason #1.

If Timmy gets number 6, that changes the argument, but outside of that, what actual basketball reasons do you have?

 

[WiggyRuss]

Yeah, they are. I'd give the slightest of edges to Kobe because Duncan has never been able to complete a back to back and only made the finals in consecutive seasons once. Plus Kobe is the only player in history with over 30,000 and over 6,000 assists. That says a lot too.

It's damn close though. A very strong argument could be made for giving Timmy a slight edge over Kobe too.

very true.....those guys came in near the same time- and will probably go out near the same time- and excluding LeBron who should stick around a lot longer- are definitely the preeminent players of their generation- 1 the most legendary big man the other the most legendary guard.


LeBron definitely has the possibility to pass them. He needs at least 1 more- if not 2 more championships.

if LeBron ended up with 1 more MVP and 2 more championships (along with the Finals MVPs) I think you would have to give him the nod.

 

[WiggyRuss]

I say Duncan for 3 very good reasons:

1. I am a hater

2. Duncan's teams have been a model of consistency his entire career. Yes, that has more to do with the supporting cast around him. But, Duncan's contributions to that streak of 50 plus win Seasons has been EPIC.

3. The way their careers will end. I hope this isn't the end of the road for Kobe. I hate the Lakers. But, we are witnessing greatness and he deserves a better send off. Even if he comes back for another Season, what's the odds of him getting ring #6?

We live in a " What have you done for me lately" kind of Society. Duncan will possibly leave this Season behind while riding on another parade float while Kobe had to leave it riding on a stretcher.

Tiiiiiiiiiiiiiimmy....especially if he gets #6.

the Lakers last 3 seasons with only 1 playoff series win- along with Kobe's injuries- in contrast to the unreal success of Duncans later years could be the tipping point.....we shall see.

If Duncan gets another title i think he will have earned some separation - but its absurd to say there are not EXTREMELY compelling arguments for each.

 

[trojanfan12]

very true.....those guys came in near the same time- and will probably go out near the same time- and excluding LeBron who should stick around a lot longer- are definitely the preeminent players of their generation- 1 the most legendary big man the other the most legendary guard.


LeBron definitely has the possibility to pass them. He needs at least 1 more- if not 2 more championships.

if LeBron ended up with 1 more MVP and 2 more championships (along with the Finals MVPs) I think you would have to give him the nod.

I wouldn't. I'd put him in the conversation, but the team hopping b.s, counts against him big time and always will. Like it or not, there's no way around it and Kobe and Timmy will always get credit for staying with same team instead of trying to hop from "superteam to superteam."

I know Lebroniacs and Cavs fan don't want to hear it, but it's how it works.

 

[Mecca]

I don't see where any of the 3 reasons are any good.

1.) For obvious reasons.
2.) Timmy and Kobe don't have much control over what the FO does.
3.) A players career ending because of injury isn't his fault and holding it against them is rather lame and reverts back to reason #1.

If Timmy gets number 6, that changes the argument, but outside of that, what actual basketball reasons do you have?

No, seriously.....that's all I got

I honestly think it is a matter of preference.

They are player 1a and 1b post Jordan era.

 

[Mecca]

the Lakers last 3 seasons with only 1 playoff series win- along with Kobe's injuries- in contrast to the unreal success of Duncans later years could be the tipping point.....we shall see.

If Duncan gets another title i think he will have earned some separation - but its absurd to say there are not EXTREMELY compelling arguments for each.

The only pro-Kobe thing I can think of that would tip the scale in his favor would be that he was either the clear cut Alpha or Co-Alpha on more of his Championship Teams.

I think Parker was the guy for the rings 3 and 4 and we know Leonard was the man for #5.

 

[WiggyRuss]

I wouldn't. I'd put him in the conversation, but the team hopping b.s, counts against him big time and always will. Like it or not, there's no way around it and Kobe and Timmy will always get credit for staying with same team instead of trying to hop from "superteam to superteam."

I know Lebroniacs and Cavs fan don't want to hear it, but it's how it works.

5 MVP's means a lot.

I mean- only Jordan and Russel have 5- and most people have them as the #1 and #2 best players of all time- and while they do have more championships- if LeBron got to 3 or 4- that would be pretty crazy.

but when you are talking about that top level- their is big level of subjectivity and opinion

there are only so many guys with more then 1 mvp

Wilt and LeBron each have 4...

Moses Malone, Bird and Magic each have 3...

Petit, Karl Malone, Duncan, and NAsh each have 2

its extremely hard to get an MVP award

I think the biggest criteria are championships, finals MVP's (as the championships- i mean robery horry has a ton- being the best player on your championship team is huge)- and MVP awards...

 

[Mecca]

I wouldn't. I'd put him in the conversation, but the team hopping b.s, counts against him big time and always will. Like it or not, there's no way around it and Kobe and Timmy will always get credit for staying with same team instead of trying to hop from "superteam to superteam."

I know Lebroniacs and Cavs fan don't want to hear it, but it's how it works.

Yeah, his Mercenary tendencies gives me reason to pause.

But, his numbers will likely stack up to give his fanboys reason to believe he is in the same class.

 

[WiggyRuss]

plus-

if you look at the guys Lebron, Duncan, Jordan and Kobe have played with- I think we would all agree- Shaq in his prime was by far the best

Pippen and Dwade are both great- but Shaq- when they won their 3 titles- was the Final MVP all 3 times and was without question the best player on that team.

he of course did not have the motivation and mental strength and longevity of Kobe- and thats why Kobe definitely is better all time.

but I dunno...

as Lakers fans- if you could pick one guy for just one season who would it be?

for me it would be Shaq at the height of his prime. At the height of his prime he is about as dominant as it gets as far as i have seen in my life outside of Michael and maybe- maybe LeBron

 

[trojanfan12]

The only pro-Kobe thing I can think of that would tip the scale in his favor would be that he was either the clear cut Alpha or Co-Alpha on more of his Championship Teams.

I think Parker was the guy for the rings 3 and 4 and we know Leonard was the man for #5.

Kobe also has a huge stat where he stands alone in NBA history. 30,000 points and 6,000 assists. Think of all of the great players in NBA history. Guys who could score and pass with the best of them and only Kobe has reached that level.

It says a lot when you are the only guy to do something like that. Of course, it also says that you're old and have played a long time.