Is it time for the "Michigan with a GREAT win to open the season" thread yet?

[ericd7633]

I'm not saying he isn't, and not that he walked into an ideal situation at Bowling Green. But it was still better than what Hoke had to work with at Ball State. Ball State also went 6 years without an above .500 record. And Meyer has more talent to work with, Ohio has better high schools than Indiana. Not to mention that Ohio has one 1 major program in-state, OSU (1.5 if you want to count Cincinnati). While Indiana has 3, Notre Dame, Purdue and Indiana.

To say one can win just as easily at Ball St. as they can in Bowling Green is just disingenuous. So no, no you can't argue Hoke took over a better situation at Ball St.

Because if you go back greater than 6 years, from both, Meyer was just 9 seasoned removed from a 10 win season at Bowling Green, while before Hoke the last time Ball St. had double digit wins was 1978!

Ball State's record since Hoke left is 31-31. Bowling Green's record in that same time frame is 32-32. Seems like Ball State isn't having any issue of keeping up with Bowling Green despite all the excuses you mentioned earlier.

Both situations were garbage, don't get me wrong, but acting as if something that happened in 1994 is an indication of where the program was in 2000 is laughable.

 

[GoBlueNavyNuke]

Ball State's record since Hoke left is 31-31. Bowling Green's record in that same time frame is 32-32. Seems like Ball State isn't having any issue of keeping up with Bowling Green despite all the excuses you mentioned earlier.

Both situations were garbage, don't get me wrong, but acting as if something that happened in 1994 is an indication of where the program was in 2000 is laughable.

It's an indication on how hard/easy it is to win at a school, no matter the decade.

Some places are better set up for success. A school with history of winning, no matter how long ago, has a better sales pitch than a school with no history. And a school within a region of better high schools is going to get better recruits (ala the SEC).

Now once a school gets the ball rolling, it is easier to maintain, but that doesn't mean it takes the same effort to get said ball rolling.

Again, to suggest Bowling Green is as hard a job as Ball St. is just laughable.

 

[GoBlueNavyNuke]

Though note, neither Hoke nor Meyer won any MAC titles. So if you compare the two's stints in the MWC, it is plain as day that Meyer walked into a better situation. Utah was just two years removed from upsetting a Pete Carroll USC team in the Vegas Bowl while SDSU had 12 losing seasons before Hoke.

 

[ericd7633]

It's an indication on how hard/easy it is to win at a school, no matter the decade.

Some places are better set up for success. A school with history of winning, no matter how long ago, has a better sales pitch than a school with no history. And a school within a region of better high schools is going to get better recruits (ala the SEC).

Now once a school gets the ball rolling, it is easier to maintain, but that doesn't mean it takes the same effort to get said ball rolling.

Again, to suggest Bowling Green is as hard a job as Ball St. is just laughable.

Neither has a history of doing jack shit. And both schools struggle to finish in the top 100 of team recruiting rankings. You act as though Bowling Green has a huge advantage because of state and history of program when that simply isn't the case. Neither is easy to win at, it's why they both are .500 programs the last 6 years or whatever it was.

 

[GoBlueNavyNuke]

Neither has a history of doing jack shit. And both schools struggle to finish in the top 100 of team recruiting rankings. You act as though Bowling Green has a huge advantage because of state and history of program when that simply isn't the case. Neither is easy to win at, it's why they both are .500 programs the last 6 years or whatever it was.

Did I say "huge?"



The answer is no, no I didn't. But the fact that Bowling Green has over twice the MAC titles than Ball State (and the latest being a Bowling Green title last year, well beyond the influence of either Hoke or Meyer) suggests that is easier to win at Bowling Green than Ball State by at least some degree.


break break


I also note an interesting trend between the two, Meyer spent on two years at Bowling Green and 2 at Utah, which means he won with the previous guys recruits. Which in of itself is not necessarily a bad thing. But when we look at the one place he stayed a while, Florida, again he had his greatest success with Zook's recruits, but in his last sesson, with a roster full of his recruits, the program started to take a nose dive from with it hasn't recovered. While Hoke spent 6 years at Ball State, and his best years was his last, when everyone has a Hoke recruited and Hoke developed player (admittedly Hoke also only spent 2 years at SDSU). Seems to me that Hoke as shown a better job for long term success, while Meyer is a "flash in the pan" kind of coach.

 

[The Authority]

Bowling Green and Utah were not bottom feeders.

Bowling Green had 10 MAC titles and even claims 3 national title, all before Meyer. While Ball State has only 5 MAC titles.

And Utah has 3 WAC/MWC titles (again before Meyer) vs SDSU's 1.

Meyer's stops were to programs with at least some history of success, while Hoke's were anything but. So if it takes a great coach 6/7 years to turn programs into contenders, but they get hired to the next step up at year 5, because the new school sees the potential in the coach. Is it really the fault of said coach for not wining any titles?

Utah had a losing record before Meyer's arrival and he won a championship within 2 years.

Other coaches won championships at San Diago st. in short amount of time.

Keep them coming though. They must teach a class at Michigan called "Excuses for Failure 101".

 

[ericd7633]

Did I say "huge?"



The answer is no, no I didn't. But the fact that Bowling Green has over twice the MAC titles than Ball State (and the latest being a Bowling Green title last year, well beyond the influence of either Hoke or Meyer) suggests that is easier to win at Bowling Green than Ball State by at least some degree.


break break


I also note an interesting trend between the two, Meyer spent on two years at Bowling Green and 2 at Utah, which means he won with the previous guys recruits. Which in of itself is not necessarily a bad thing. But when we look at the one place he stayed a while, Florida, again he had his greatest success with Zook's recruits, but in his last sesson, with a roster full of his recruits, the program started to take a nose dive from with it hasn't recovered. While Hoke spent 6 years at Ball State, and his best years was his last, when everyone has a Hoke recruited and Hoke developed player (admittedly Hoke also only spent 2 years at SDSU). Seems to me that Hoke as shown a better job for long term success, while Meyer is a "flash in the pan" kind of coach.

You said it was laughable indicating that there is a sizable gap between the two. So no you didn't say huge, but if you thought it was close why use the word laughable? The fact remains neither has done jack shit. And also Ball State has won 5 MAC titles but they also won conference titles prior to joining the MAC. Guess how many MAC titles Bowling Green has since Ball State joined the conference and before Urban, that'd be 4, guess how many Ball State had before Hoke, that'd be 5.

And Meyer sure did win with Zook's recruits. You know what else he did? Win a natty in his fourth year with all his recruits and win the sugar bowl and finish #3 in the final AP poll the following year with all his recruits.

And Hoke has done the same thing at his last two stops and his current program isn't in line to win the natty in his 4th year like Urban did at Florida.

It sounds to me as though you are trying to suggest Hoke is on par or better than Urban.

 

[The Authority]

Did I say "huge?"



The answer is no, no I didn't. But the fact that Bowling Green has over twice the MAC titles than Ball State (and the latest being a Bowling Green title last year, well beyond the influence of either Hoke or Meyer) suggests that is easier to win at Bowling Green than Ball State by at least some degree.


break break


I also note an interesting trend between the two, Meyer spent on two years at Bowling Green and 2 at Utah, which means he won with the previous guys recruits. Which in of itself is not necessarily a bad thing. But when we look at the one place he stayed a while, Florida, again he had his greatest success with Zook's recruits, but in his last sesson, with a roster full of his recruits, the program started to take a nose dive from with it hasn't recovered. While Hoke spent 6 years at Ball State, and his best years was his last, when everyone has a Hoke recruited and Hoke developed player (admittedly Hoke also only spent 2 years at SDSU). Seems to me that Hoke as shown a better job for long term success, while Meyer is a "flash in the pan" kind of coach.

Meyer won a title in his 4th year at Florida. Hoke is no where close in his 4th year.

Your delusion knows no bounds.


Cue the dump truck load of excuses in 3............2..............1..................

 

[oaknightshockey1]

For those that listen to the ESPNU College Football podcast, Ivan and Geno recently had a conversation about that. About how schools are trying to add "creature comforts" to their stadiums to try to help attrach crowds, especially younger people with things like improve cell service and wifi so that they can Tweet and whatnot during the game.

Yep. This summer Nebraska installed wifi for the whole stadium apparently. Who knows how well it will work for 90k+, but they're trying.

 

[GoBlueNavyNuke]

Utah had a losing record before Meyer's arrival and he won a championship within 2 years.

Other coaches won championships at San Diago st. in short amount of time.

Keep them coming though. They must teach a class at Michigan called "Excuses for Failure 101".

I know it is asking a lot, but please do try to keep up.

Urban Meyer became the head coach in 2003, in 2001 (2 years prior) Utah had 9 wins, including a bowl victory over USC with Pete Carroll at the helm and had MWC title in 1999 (4 years prior)

Brady Hoke became the head coach at SDSU in 2009, their last winning season before that was in 1998 (11 years prior), never won a bowl game before Hoke, and last conference title was in the WAC in 1986.

Now tell me, who walked into a position set up for success and who did not?


And oh, that coach who won a conference title in a short time was Rocky Long, Hoke's DC when he was the HC there, and did so with the players Hoke and his staff (most of whom are now at Michigan) recruited and developed (for the most part).

 

[GoBlueNavyNuke]

Meyer won a title in his 4th year at Florida. Hoke is no where close in his 4th year.

Your delusion knows no bounds.


Cue the dump truck load of excuses in 3............2..............1..................

Is all you know is throw insults around?


Try for once to actually look into the information to see what's there (i.e. analysis). For example, Michigan was in a tailspin after Rich Rod, but Florida, while under-achieved under Zook, weren't that bad. And it is widely accepted while Zook isn't a good coach, the man can recruit.

 

[Wamu]

Is all you know is throw insults around?


Try for once to actually look into the information to see what's there (i.e. analysis). For example, Michigan was in a tailspin after Rich Rod, but Florida, while under-achieved under Zook, weren't that bad. And it is widely accepted while Zook isn't a good coach, the man can recruit.

While the Gators under Zook weren't all that bad they also were not that good. Zook's 3 years in The Swamp he went 8-5, 8-5 & 7-4 w/ 2 looses in the Outback Bowl.

 

[The Authority]

Is all you know is throw insults around?


Try for once to actually look into the information to see what's there (i.e. analysis).

Mentioning all your excuses isn't an insult. Its a fact.


Analyzing (i.e. making excuses) for failure doesn't make the failure go away. It just allows failure to continue.

 

[The Authority]

Is all you know is throw insults around?


Try for once to actually look into the information to see what's there (i.e. analysis). For example, Michigan was in a tailspin after Rich Rod, but Florida, while under-achieved under Zook, weren't that bad. And it is widely accepted while Zook isn't a good coach, the man can recruit.

More excuses.

Good thing Guss Malzon didn't buy into the Michigan excuse stock.

They went 3 - 9 the year before he took over and didn't win a game against BCS school.

Hell, its a good thing a lot coaches don't constantly make up excuses like this.

 

[GoBlueNavyNuke]

You said it was laughable indicating that there is a sizable gap between the two. So no you didn't say huge, but if you thought it was close why use the word laughable? The fact remains neither has done jack shit. And also Ball State has won 5 MAC titles but they also won conference titles prior to joining the MAC. Guess how many MAC titles Bowling Green has since Ball State joined the conference and before Urban, that'd be 4, guess how many Ball State had before Hoke, that'd be 5.

And Meyer sure did win with Zook's recruits. You know what else he did? Win a natty in his fourth year with all his recruits and win the sugar bowl and finish #3 in the final AP poll the following year with all his recruits.

And Hoke has done the same thing at his last two stops and his current program isn't in line to win the natty in his 4th year like Urban did at Florida.

It sounds to me as though you are trying to suggest Hoke is on par or better than Urban.

Because sizeable and huge are two different words. It's not like I suggested that either Bowling Green or Ball State are great place to coach, but one is clearly the better of the two. And yes, the Heartland conference is just as tough as the MAC (god, is this really where this conversation is going). From the 50's through the 60's yes, Ball State had 4 Heartland titles, but Bowling Green had 6 MAC titles. If we count all conference titles, Bowling Green has 16 (11 MAC and 5 Northwestern Ohio Intercolleigate Athletic Association) and Ball State only 10 (5 MAC, 4 Heartland, 1 Indiana Intercolliegate)

That second national title was done on the back on Tim Tebow, admittedly one of the best to ever play the game. And who BTW was recruited to Florida by one Greg Mattison, who Meyer is stated is the "best recruiter in the country," who is now the DC at Michigan. Now, how did Meyer do post-Tebow?

 

[GoBlueNavyNuke]

While the Gators under Zook weren't all that bad they also were not that good. Zook's 3 years in The Swamp he went 8-5, 8-5 & 7-4 w/ 2 looses in the Outback Bowl.

Exactly my point!

In Rich Rod's three years Michigan went 3-9, 5-7, and 8-5 with a loose in the Outback Bowl.

Now tell me, who walked into a better situation, Meyer at Florida or Hoke at Michigan?

 

[GoBlueNavyNuke]

More excuses.

Good thing Guss Malzon didn't buy into the Michigan excuse stock.

They went 3 - 9 the year before he took over and didn't win a game against BCS school.

Hell, its a good thing a lot coaches don't constantly make up excuses like this.

And they won the national title just two years before that.

 

[GoBlueNavyNuke]

Mentioning all your excuses isn't an insult. Its a fact.


Analyzing (i.e. making excuses) for failure doesn't make the failure go away. It just allows failure to continue.

So what's your excuse for allowing a team that is clearly such a failure come so close, not once, but twice, to knocking your smug ass to the ground?

If Hoke is clearly such a failure, and Meyer clearly such a winner, why didn't Meyer blow Hoke out of the water?

 

[The Authority]

Now, how did Meyer do post-Tebow?

You mean that one year sample size ?


Its funny you knock a guy for doing well with other peoples recruits yet the previous coach didn't do as well with those same recruits.

Gee I guess coaching has nothing to do with it.

So basically you now have excuses for why Hoke does poorly and why Urban does well.

Wins and losses mean nothing to this guy because of the giant excuse train he ride.

 

[The Authority]

So what's your excuse for allowing a team that is clearly such a failure come so close, not once, but twice, to knocking your smug ass to the ground?

If Hoke is clearly such a failure, and Meyer clearly such a winner, why didn't Meyer blow Hoke out of the water?

Another oxymoron. " Nearly knocking you to the ground" (except they didn't )

thats like saying, I almost won the lottery but instead I won nothing.

If Hoke is clearly such a failure, and Meyer clearly such a winner, why didn't Meyer blow Hoke out of the water?

Because college football doesn't work in such black and white fashion game by game. I know you are a michigan fan but cleary you are smart enough to realize that.

I mean Saban lost to Louisana Monroe for crying out loud.

You have look at overall success. Winners don't make excuses.