Is Baker Mayfield a Bust?

[dtgold88]

No one will never say die like @dtgold88

No disagreement there. Even though I know I shouldn't I will argue with irrational too long.

Feel free to weigh in on the topic, though.

 

[dtgold88]

Correct.

But all those other things shade into subjectivity. ESPN keeps revising how they calculate QBR and they don’t let people know what the formula is.

They kind of do offer a long explanation though. Not sure anyone knows the passer rating formula. All we know is it's based on the following...
TD and INT ratio
yards/attempt
completion %

what's wrong with a little subjectivity? I mean, as long as there is no agenda involved. Some sacks are on the QB, some are on the OL.

 

[dtgold88]

Join the hooked on phonics group. You're hidden agenda doesn't allow you to comprehend English very well.

What part of what that isn't subjective?

Thanks for playing, but back to summer school for you.

Says I don't understand English, then says "what part of what that isn't subjective" and doesn't know difference between your and you're

Ya gotta love this forum.

Hidden agenda? Because I prefer QBR to passer rating to grade the performance of a QB?

 

[dtgold88]

I think we've all pretty much agreed that Baker wasn't going to be elite, consistent top 10 level qb. Arguing as to what middle of the road means is splitting hairs.

The 2021 Browns could have easily won 11 games with 2020 level Baker play. Now as to regard what part that injury played... obviously it played some. But it's also odd how he looked fine against Cincy but was then putrid against Minnesota in week 4.

But his entire second half was mostly awful and his play clearly cost the team games.

The Browns didn't want to risk another year of elite OL play (of which Baker took so many bad sacks it was insane) on him.

That matters more than what we got to say.

No doubt about nearly all of this. Sure, his injuries mattered...probably a lot. But he made many bad decisions that had nothing to do with his injuries. OL when healthy was elite. There were some games they struggled without Conklin as well as Wills AND their backups.

I happen to believe our FO when they said they were going to roll with Baker UNLESS they could bring in a top tier QB who was clearly better....and in their (and most) minds, they did. Kind of lucky it happened as not sure what the plan longterm would have been if Watson was not available.

Maybe one of these days we know how long he'll be out assuming he is?

 

[Wamu]

Here's my summary of things.

BM is the definition of average. When I try to compare him to another QB the one I keep thinking of is Eli. Who was exactly .500 for his career.

He's not a top tier QB. But he's not at the bottom tier QB either. Somewhere in the middle.

In no universe is he a bust. You can say he didn't live up to being a # 1 pick, which I think is true, but he's not an all out bust.

He's not as bad as some of his haters are saying. And he's not as good as some might think. And keep in mind I'm part of the BM haters club as I was disappointed in my team drafting him in the first place.

 

[dtgold88]

Here's my summary of things.

BM is the definition of average. When I try to compare him to another QB the one I keep thinking of is Eli. Who was exactly .500 for his career.

He's not a top tier QB. But he's not at the bottom tier QB either. Somewhere in the middle.

In no universe is he a bust. You can say he didn't live up to being a # 1 pick, which I think is true, but he's not an all out bust.

He's not as bad as some of his haters are saying. And he's not as good as some might think. And keep in mind I'm part of the BM haters club as I was disappointed in my team drafting him in the first place.

Not sure Eli is the best comparison as they strike me as very different QBs but agree with the rest. trying to come up with a better comparison and cannot yet. Someone who is capable of a top 10 season but also a bottom 5 season. Other than maybe Goff, I got nothing

 

[Wamu]

Not sure Eli is the best comparison as they strike me as very different QBs but agree with the rest. trying to come up with a better comparison and cannot yet. Someone who is capable of a top 10 season but also a bottom 5 season. Other than maybe Goff, I got nothing

I'm just glad the Browns have moved on from BM.

 

[dtgold88]

I'm just glad the Browns have moved on from BM.

with a clearly better alternative, so am I.

 

[Manster7588]

Yes, you picked passer rating over QBR as I said.

On what do you base him being average in 2020?

ESPN's QBR is the dumbest stat in sports (Tom Brady was fifth, behind Ryan Fitzpatrick!)

In 2011, ESPN tried to create a better way to rate quarterbacks, as the standard system — a ridiculous, indecipherable QB rating that had, for some reason, a maximum score of 158.3 — wa…

ftw.usatoday.com

QBR is a joke.

 

[Manster7588]

I'm just glad the Browns have moved on from BM.

I just had a BM.

 

[Gatorchip]

I just had a BM.

Having one right now. Multitasking

 

[dtgold88]

ESPN's QBR is the dumbest stat in sports (Tom Brady was fifth, behind Ryan Fitzpatrick!)

In 2011, ESPN tried to create a better way to rate quarterbacks, as the standard system — a ridiculous, indecipherable QB rating that had, for some reason, a maximum score of 158.3 — wa…

ftw.usatoday.com

QBR is a joke.

yeah, who wants a stat where they actually look at what the guy did on the play to help or hurt his team. are you among the many who seem to prefer passer rating since it's more popular?

It's also been updated since it was created.

 

[Manster7588]

yeah, who wants a stat where they actually look at what the guy did on the play to help or hurt his team. are you among the many who seem to prefer passer rating since it's more popular?

Problem with QBR is it takes into account things that isn't really on the QB.

A QB with a better team around him will have an inflated QBR because team success if stacked onto his stats.

 

[dtgold88]

Problem with QBR is it takes into account things that isn't really on the QB.

A QB with a better team around him will have an inflated QBR because team success if stacked onto his stats.

QBR takes that into account (better team/players around him). Throwing to open receivers or not open, under pressure or not, etc.

None of what I'm saying is to say it's a perfect stat. No question it's a better gauge than the antiquated passer rating where those who created it would not even need to see the game to get the rating for the QB (clearly no eye test involved) while eye test is needed for QBR.

 

[Wamu]

I just had a BM.

At the cheesecake factory?

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Not sure Eli is the best comparison as they strike me as very different QBs but agree with the rest. trying to come up with a better comparison and cannot yet. Someone who is capable of a top 10 season but also a bottom 5 season. Other than maybe Goff, I got nothing

I feel like Cousins is the best comp

 

[Manster7588]

QBR takes that into account (better team/players around him). Throwing to open receivers or not open, under pressure or not, etc.

None of what I'm saying is to say it's a perfect stat. No question it's a better gauge than the antiquated passer rating where those who created it would not even need to see the game to get the rating for the QB (clearly no eye test involved) while eye test is needed for QBR.

Neither stat is truly accurate, but I prefer the original QB Rating system

 

[Manster7588]

At the cheesecake factory?

That place is over rated, my BM's are not.

 

[DJ]

He's somewhere between a clear-cut franchise QB and a backup.

Here are twelve 2022 starting QBs who haven't had a season as good as Mayfield's 2020 season:

Daniel Jones
Jalen Hurts (as a passer, anyway)
Justin Fields*
Mariota
Trey Lance*
Lock/Geno
Mac Jones*
Zach Wilson*
Tua
Trubisky
Davis Mills*
Lawrence*

* Rookie last year, not as good as Mayfield's rookie year

There's a range of mid-level QBs who will never be elite but are good enough to stay a starter for many years without their team turning itself inside-out to find a replacement. Like Tannehill or Cousins. Mayfield could easily be that.

Not to mention his record setting rookie campaign.

 

[DJ]

I feel like Cousins is the best comp

That's fair.