If Josh Allen falls to #13

[skinsdad62]

So a Pro Bowl QB is on his downside? Sure skinsdad. Keep spreading the hate. Smith is a great athlete too but you think he is on his downside. your posts are just laughable.

again now making the PB is great but not when KC does it ? an outlier season erases his career as a bus driver ? i dont think so . head to head as i have shown in another thread KC buries steve deberg but you and 396 cant read

 

[skinsdad62]

Brady, Brees, and Ben might not either, but you said you'd take them over Smith. When the season opens:
Eli 37
Brady 41
Brees 39
Ben 36

I love Nelson, but from the Niners beat writers, I keep getting this feeling that the Niners won't spend the 9/10 pick on a OG. What they really want is a CB (they'll want Jackson more than Ward), but we'll likely fill the CB need in FA, or a pass rusher but we'll probably have to trade up to get Chubb and I think that's too early for Davenport, or an OT that can play OG for a year or 2. I think the realistic player the Niners want is OT/OG Isaiah Wynn.

the 49ers should go with the BPA and if its nelson then they should pull the trigger . but is nelson it ? in my best conan narrator voice "that is another story )

 

[deanpet21]

again now making the PB is great but not when KC does it ? an outlier season erases his career as a bus driver ? i dont think so . head to head as i have shown in another thread KC buries steve deberg but you and 396 cant read

When did I hate on KC for making the Pro Bowl? You are saying we traded for Josh MCCown. You are way off and you are giving Smith no respect at all. IF we win this year this goes right up your ass, hater. You compare his to Steve Deberg. Are you serious?

 

[skinsdad62]

When did I hate on KC for making the Pro Bowl? You are saying we traded for Josh MCCown. You are way off and you are giving Smith no respect at all. IF we win this year this goes right up your ass, hater. You compare his to Steve Deberg. Are you serious?

i never mentioned josh mccown , i did mention steve deberg . so get your facts straight . i dont respect the trade and CDC is just a tread water move because no way he makes an NFC title game in 18 with us . the 71 mil guaranteed is stupid as is giving up a 22 yr old starting CB and a 3rd rounder to get what we would have had anyway . instead we are running a thrift shop

 

[gkekoa]

It's absolutely rewriting history when what he actually was under MS and what he became under Gruden were two so vastly different things. Just as you suspect that he would have done this or that, there's no evidence to support it because he didn't under the senior Shanahan. If we're honest, Dude was a flailing fish under MS. Gruden and the younger Shanny calmed him down to the point where he could become functional at the NFL level. Let us be mindful of the fact that HC's can and do ruin QB's. A very good example of this is Jeff Fisher, the QB killer. Organizations also can be QB killers, by drafting improper fits into their programs and/or not being suited with the ability and flexibility to adjust their programs to that poorly fit choice. True or not, Cleveland is widely known as the QB killing organization and while we have not reached that level of ineptitude yet, it's widely known as dysfunction here.

In as much as Griffin is concerned, who cares? QB's come into the league, some thrive or survive, others don't. It is, what it is, and maybe it's going to take more time for some here to get over Griffin, but like Heath Shuler, time, will surely make him, as it has done for others, past tense and no longer worth mentioning.

KC was a first two year player under the Shanahan’s. They drafted him and wanted him. They knew he was a good player and he needed a little polish. KC was never given a shot under MS because he couldn’t be given a shot. MS was forced to take RG3 and after year 1, there was no way MS could go to KC in year 2. What KC was as a player under MS, or would have been, can never be known. Oh, and KC wasn’t a flailing fish under MS...he had huge flashes.

I do find it funny how you have Shanahans didn’t affect KC and it was all Gruden considering you are the biggest proponent of not throwing a young QB to the wolves.

 

[deanpet21]

i never mentioned josh mccown , i did mention steve deberg . so get your facts straight . i dont respect the trade and CDC is just a tread water move because no way he makes an NFC title game in 18 with us . the 71 mil guaranteed is stupid as is giving up a 22 yr old starting CB and a 3rd rounder to get what we would have had anyway . instead we are running a thrift shop

I meant to say any old qb I used MCcown as an example. NOt stupid for the player we are getting. you still don't get this. im not surprised.

 

[skinsdad62]

I meant to say any old qb I used MCcown as an example. NOt stupid for the player we are getting. you still don't get this. im not surprised.

we arent getting a player who can carry a team

this is one of the things you said we needed in a qb

34 yr olds dont get better so why trade that much for a steve deberg ? stupid , we had other options assuming KC was gone but instead we went with the bus driver

 

[Stymietee]

KC was a first two year player under the Shanahan’s. They drafted him and wanted him. They knew he was a good player and he needed a little polish. KC was never given a shot under MS because he couldn’t be given a shot. MS was forced to take RG3 and after year 1, there was no way MS could go to KC in year 2. What KC was as a player under MS, or would have been, can never be known. Oh, and KC wasn’t a flailing fish under MS...he had huge flashes.

I do find it funny how you have Shanahans didn’t affect KC and it was all Gruden considering you are the biggest proponent of not throwing a young QB to the wolves.

So after reading the first part of your reply and the many references to McCarron not being able to beat out Dalton, one could surmise, using that same logic, that KC couldn't beat out Griffin. Evidently, for those making that argument, other extrinsic factors don't matter. Now watch as some jackass invoke the salary difference as debunked, when clearly I'm talking about something else.

I am indeed, a huge proponent against throwing young QB's to the wolves, however, it is sometimes difficult standing against stupidity So let's see how that worked out. This team wasted two firsts and a second to move up in order to destroy any chance that Griffin had at success. Yes, yes, and yes, he contributed to that failure, but there just can't be questions that they had no idea what to do with him beyond sell tickets, before he ever saw a live snap. We all know that Mike really didn't want him to begin with, and, after the selection was made had the spine of a jellyfish in not standing against his bosses knowing that he wasn't ready for the NFL. Yep, he had one hella 2012 but at what cost? No one, that's NO ONE trades as much as this organization did for one good season, except this one. I find it funny that those against sitting young QB's who aren't ready and are now Kirk aficionados don't realize that Kirk ACTUALLY sat and learned two or three times.

BTW: I never hinted at the notion that the Shanahan's didn't effect Cousins, in fact just the opposite, Mike did bench him as I stated which means, he did give him a chance to show his stuff and take the job. Remember what happened? Hint: Kirk was benched in favor of Colt McCoy......let that sink in, COLT McCoy!! Turns out the more Kirk sat the more prepared he was, eventually. I defy anyone to credibly deny that Kirk sitting wasn't beneficial to his long term success. Of course, whether he knew it or not, MS and his son had an affect on Kirk.

 

[gkekoa]

So after reading the first part of your reply and the many references to McCarron not being able to beat out Dalton, one could surmise, using that same logic, that KC couldn't beat out Griffin. Evidently, for those making that argument, other extrinsic factors don't matter. Now watch as some jackass invoke the salary difference as debunked, when clearly I'm talking about something else.

I am indeed, a huge proponent against throwing young QB's to the wolves, however, it is sometimes difficult standing against stupidity So let's see how that worked out. This team wasted two firsts and a second to move up in order to destroy any chance that Griffin had at success. Yes, yes, and yes, he contributed to that failure, but there just can't be questions that they had no idea what to do with him beyond sell tickets, before he ever saw a live snap. We all know that Mike really didn't want him to begin with, and, after the selection was made had the spine of a jellyfish in not standing against his bosses knowing that he wasn't ready for the NFL. Yep, he had one hella 2012 but at what cost? No one, that's NO ONE trades as much as this organization did for one good season, except this one. I find it funny that those against sitting young QB's who aren't ready and are now Kirk aficionados don't realize that Kirk ACTUALLY sat and learned two or three times.

BTW: I never hinted at the notion that the Shanahan's didn't effect Cousins, in fact just the opposite, Mike did bench him as I stated which means, he did give him a chance to show his stuff and take the job. Remember what happened? Hint: Kirk was benched in favor of Colt McCoy......let that sink in, COLT McCoy!! Turns out the more Kirk sat the more prepared he was, eventually. I defy anyone to credibly deny that Kirk sitting wasn't beneficial to his long term success. Of course, whether he knew it or not, MS and his son had an affect on Kirk.

KC was never given a chance to beat out RG3 because of RG3’s draft position and incredible first year. And of course he couldn’t beat him out year 1.

AJ not beating out Dalton is more concerning; however, I chalk that up to the stubbornness of the coach.

KC was benched for McCoy under Gruden I believe.

 

[Stymietee]

KC was never given a chance to beat out RG3 because of RG3’s draft position and incredible first year. And of course he couldn’t beat him out year 1.

AJ not beating out Dalton is more concerning; however, I chalk that up to the stubbornness of the coach.

KC was benched for McCoy under Gruden I believe.

First two, both valid points, and we agree that there are reasons not known when a 5th round pick doesn't get a chance to start over a second round pic, just as there are in the case of a 1st rounder vs a 4th rounder. It happens!

You're right, about Gruden benching Kirk in favor of McCoy, but wasn't Kirk relegated to the bench after taking over in the playoff game against Seattle the following "All in for game one" 2013 season? The point is Kirk had the opportunity to sit and learn under both guys and this helped him.

 

[deanpet21]

we arent getting a player who can carry a team

this is one of the things you said we needed in a qb

34 yr olds dont get better so why trade that much for a steve deberg ? stupid , we had other options assuming KC was gone but instead we went with the bus driver

Bullshit. You are saying there is no upside to Alex Smith? He is not a good athlete?

 

[skinsdad62]

Bullshit. You are saying there is no upside to Alex Smith? He is not a good athlete?

no upside to CDC is correct he is moving to decline

 

[skinsdad62]

So after reading the first part of your reply and the many references to McCarron not being able to beat out Dalton, one could surmise, using that same logic, that KC couldn't beat out Griffin. Evidently, for those making that argument, other extrinsic factors don't matter. Now watch as some jackass invoke the salary difference as debunked, when clearly I'm talking about something else.

I am indeed, a huge proponent against throwing young QB's to the wolves, however, it is sometimes difficult standing against stupidity So let's see how that worked out. This team wasted two firsts and a second to move up in order to destroy any chance that Griffin had at success. Yes, yes, and yes, he contributed to that failure, but there just can't be questions that they had no idea what to do with him beyond sell tickets, before he ever saw a live snap. We all know that Mike really didn't want him to begin with, and, after the selection was made had the spine of a jellyfish in not standing against his bosses knowing that he wasn't ready for the NFL. Yep, he had one hella 2012 but at what cost? No one, that's NO ONE trades as much as this organization did for one good season, except this one. I find it funny that those against sitting young QB's who aren't ready and are now Kirk aficionados don't realize that Kirk ACTUALLY sat and learned two or three times.

BTW: I never hinted at the notion that the Shanahan's didn't effect Cousins, in fact just the opposite, Mike did bench him as I stated which means, he did give him a chance to show his stuff and take the job. Remember what happened? Hint: Kirk was benched in favor of Colt McCoy......let that sink in, COLT McCoy!! Turns out the more Kirk sat the more prepared he was, eventually. I defy anyone to credibly deny that Kirk sitting wasn't beneficial to his long term success. Of course, whether he knew it or not, MS and his son had an affect on Kirk.

KC did beat out rg3 eventually aj , didnt beat dalton out

 

[skinz2winz]

I will be honest, I have NOT read all the threads related to this post Dean. We have a lot of money tied up in our QB's now that Smith is onboard and Colt will serve as his backup. Therefore, I do NOT see the Skins drafting a QB early and may not draft one late either. Maybe they wait until next year to make a move early for Smith's backup.

Either way, should #13 present itself with Josh Allen (highly doubt it) but if it does, we immediately call Buffalo and inquire about #21 & #22. All it takes is one team to fall in love with Allen and the trade talk can begin.

And, if this scenario does play out this could really help us get 2 players we really want/can help us in year 1.

 

[Breed]

And, if this scenario does play out this could really help us get 2 players we really want/can help us in year 1.

That'd be a nice scanario, but I question whether we have the FO to make it work.

 

[Stymietee]

KC did beat out rg3 eventually aj , didnt beat dalton out

If that works for you...OK

 

[skinsdad62]

If that works for you...OK

that is exactly what happened sty , RG3 vs detroit , in the preseason was awful and then the choice was to go with KC resulting in RG3 sitting on the bench making 15 mil because the gave him year 5 . it isnt about "what works for me " . both gruden and SMGM went to the upper guys in the FO and pushed for the change

 

[Stymietee]

that is exactly what happened sty , RG3 vs detroit , in the preseason was awful and then the choice was to go with KC resulting in RG3 sitting on the bench making 15 mil because the gave him year 5 . it isnt about "what works for me " . both gruden and SMGM went to the upper guys in the FO and pushed for the change

OK, glad you see it that way.

 

[skinsdad62]

OK, glad you see it that way.

what other way is it to be seen ?

 

[Stymietee]

what other way is it to be seen ?

Ok, just from what comes immediately to mind:

1. That Griffin lost his Job the moment Gruden was hired, unrelated to Kirk

2. That Mike Shanahan destroyed any hope that Griffin would have even modest success long term.

3. That Griffin wanted to become the type of QB with more than a fleeting stay in the NFL, and once he suggested publicly that's what he wanted, there was no stomach in the organization to sit him and properly transition him into the pro game. (BTW: that die was cast once he was named starter after being drafted)

4. Injuries

5. Me, me, me from Griffin

6. Snyder's favorite who gained veto power from an impetuous owner

7. Weak, professional football management group, who were paid to build a winning program but selected to keep their jobs instead of doing the correct thing despite the owner.