If Josh Allen falls to #13

[Stymietee]

KC would be KC no matter what

Now that's funny, so here is my question, which KC would be KC no matter what? The one who couldn't function for shit under MS, or the one that somehow found his legs under Gruden? Let's not try to rewrite history here.

 

[Rowdy]

1. Dak - hes a 24 year old with an excellent rookie season and a rough 8 game stretch. Every team in the NFL would take him over Smith.
2. Trub - Trubisky looked fine last year. Hes a 2nd year top 5 pick. Again every team would take him over Smith.
3. Teddy - young with potential, showed promise.
4. Cam - lol. No he has an MVP too. Something Smith doesnt have. Cam can carry his team. Smith needs to be carried. Smith is also older. It is ridiculous to say Smith is a better option. The Panthers would laugh in our faces.
5. Winston - who cares if hes an idiot. Hes a much younger QB with way more potential.
6. JG - again. way younger, way more potential. Probably way better than Smith right now already.
7. Watson - just because hes black doesnt make rgknee. Look past that and realize hes a very promising young QB. Again - no team in the NFL would agree with you.
8. Mariota - dont care if you arent a fan. thats not a valid argument. Hes a way better option than Smith.
9. Mahomes -yep jury is still out. You think Smith is worth more than a first round QB? Let me help you - he isnt.
10. Carr - same old story. Younger with potential. Realize that that is more important than anything Smith brings to the table.

Lets get some others opinions on these guys compared to smith. Not considering what was giving up to get smith.
Just compare the two qbs. im curious to see.

 

[deanpet21]

Then prove that with numbers or other facts.

Saying "forget the numbers, things just are the way i say they are" is a moronic argument.

Why is a QB judged based on just numbers? That is moronic. You would take Eli over Smith now?

 

[deanpet21]

No he isn't. What you mean, but won't say is "Smith had a better 2017 season than Eli" and that is actually true, so you should stick with that, but if you use that 1-season sample size to determine which is the better player, you're almost guessing.

The numbers matter a great deal b/c looking at production over several years will give you a better basis upon which to project future production than looking at just one year. That's not my opinion, that's a fact.

And those numbers tell us that Smith's spike in production is so late in his career and so far above his average (even his average in KC) it is unlikely to continue and it's more likely his production will significantly drop next year. OTOH, the numbers tell us that Eli will be much more productive in 2018 than he was in 2017, b/c his production over the last few years is WAY above his 2017.

Wrong again. I listed his INT stats. He was 2:1 TD to INT.

In 2017 were Cam and Ben turnover machines? They had more picks than Eli.
In 2016 were Brees and Cam turnover machines? They had more picks than Eli
In 2015 were Peyton, Ben and Stafford turnover machines? They had more picks than Eli.
In 2014 were Peyton and Brees turnover machines? They had more picks than Eli.

I can do this all day. More TD passes come with more INTs.

Smith is a safer QB that takes fewer chances. That means he will have fewer TD passes and fewer INTs. It is that "play it safe" mentality that got him replaced in San Francisco.

You forget that I'm a Niner fan. I've watched every game of Alex Smith's career, including his KC games. That's how I know your opinion of him is wrong.

This sounds a lot like you're changing your story to fit the conclusion you like. In 2017, the Giants OL and WRs were riddled with injury, but something tells me that if that happens to the Skins next year, you'll use that to excuse Smith's drop in production.

So you would take Eli over Smith right now. Give me a straight answer.

 

[Niner Outlaw]

So you would take Eli over Smith right now. Give me a straight answer.

Yes. I take Eli Manning over Smith. Right now.

Not thinking about how they played 6 years ago. Not thinking of 2019 or 2020 or what they cost or anything like that. If I have only one season as HC/GM/Owner (aka, Jerry Jones, LOL) and the only 2 Qbs I can pick to be my starter for 2018 are Alex Smith and Eli Manning. I take Manning over Smith every time.

 

[gkekoa]

The answer is different than who you would take because they are completely different QBs. Give me a good defense and run game, perhaps Smith is better suited for that team than Eli. Eventually though, the QB in today’s game will have to make a play even if the defense and run game is good. Give me Eli for that reason. Smith is too risk averse.

 

[skinsdad62]

Now that's funny, so here is my question, which KC would be KC no matter what? The one who couldn't function for shit under MS, or the one that somehow found his legs under Gruden? Let's not try to rewrite history here.

no rewriting history , MS has maintained all along KC was a good qb . the younger shanny also praised him alot . when KC got his opportunity he ran with it . i suspect he would have done it no matter who the coach was when the opportunity presented itself

the one who turned out to be a turd was RG3. he couldnt function with gruden and he couldnt function with the browns and he is out of football

 

[deanpet21]

Yes. I take Eli Manning over Smith. Right now.

Not thinking about how they played 6 years ago. Not thinking of 2019 or 2020 or what they cost or anything like that. If I have only one season as HC/GM/Owner (aka, Jerry Jones, LOL) and the only 2 Qbs I can pick to be my starter for 2018 are Alex Smith and Eli Manning. I take Manning over Smith every time.

Well I think that is crazy. You are entitled to your opinion but I believe Smith is the better QB now and has more upside in the next 4 seasons. Eli might not make it 2 more seasons.

Who are the 49ers targeting with there pick? You think they are high on Nelson OG?

 

[skinsdad62]

Well I think that is crazy. You are entitled to your opinion but I believe Smith is the better QB now and has more upside in the next 4 seasons. Eli might not make it 2 more seasons.

Who are the 49ers targeting with there pick? You think they are high on Nelson OG?

they are both on the downside it was a stupid trade

 

[ehb5]

Why is a QB judged based on just numbers? That is moronic. You would take Eli over Smith now?

I didn't say they were judged based on just numbers.

You said to ignore the numbers we should just listen to whatever you say. THAT is moronic.

 

[Sharkinva]

I didn't say they were judged based on just numbers.

You said to ignore the numbers we should just listen to whatever you say. THAT is moronic.

Correction... We should listen to what Bruce says and Dean repeats.

 

[gkekoa]

I didn't say they were judged based on just numbers.

You said to ignore the numbers we should just listen to whatever you say. THAT is moronic.

In fairness...he is a moron.

 

[skinsdad62]

deanis is a puppet . he doesnt have his own thoughts when it comes to 396 /BA

i know declare BA will be called 396 and hereby copyright this new call sign

it can be used for a small promotional fee

 

[Niner Outlaw]

Well I think that is crazy. You are entitled to your opinion but I believe Smith is the better QB now and has more upside in the next 4 seasons. Eli might not make it 2 more seasons.

Brady, Brees, and Ben might not either, but you said you'd take them over Smith. When the season opens:
Eli 37
Brady 41
Brees 39
Ben 36

Who are the 49ers targeting with there pick? You think they are high on Nelson OG?

I love Nelson, but from the Niners beat writers, I keep getting this feeling that the Niners won't spend the 9/10 pick on a OG. What they really want is a CB (they'll want Jackson more than Ward), but we'll likely fill the CB need in FA, or a pass rusher but we'll probably have to trade up to get Chubb and I think that's too early for Davenport, or an OT that can play OG for a year or 2. I think the realistic player the Niners want is OT/OG Isaiah Wynn.

 

[Stymietee]

no rewriting history , MS has maintained all along KC was a good qb . the younger shanny also praised him alot . when KC got his opportunity he ran with it . i suspect he would have done it no matter who the coach was when the opportunity presented itself

the one who turned out to be a turd was RG3. he couldnt function with gruden and he couldnt function with the browns and he is out of football

It's absolutely rewriting history when what he actually was under MS and what he became under Gruden were two so vastly different things. Just as you suspect that he would have done this or that, there's no evidence to support it because he didn't under the senior Shanahan. If we're honest, Dude was a flailing fish under MS. Gruden and the younger Shanny calmed him down to the point where he could become functional at the NFL level. Let us be mindful of the fact that HC's can and do ruin QB's. A very good example of this is Jeff Fisher, the QB killer. Organizations also can be QB killers, by drafting improper fits into their programs and/or not being suited with the ability and flexibility to adjust their programs to that poorly fit choice. True or not, Cleveland is widely known as the QB killing organization and while we have not reached that level of ineptitude yet, it's widely known as dysfunction here.

In as much as Griffin is concerned, who cares? QB's come into the league, some thrive or survive, others don't. It is, what it is, and maybe it's going to take more time for some here to get over Griffin, but like Heath Shuler, time, will surely make him, as it has done for others, past tense and no longer worth mentioning.

 

[skinsdad62]

It's absolutely rewriting history when what he actually was under MS and what he became under Gruden were two so vastly different things. Just as you suspect that he would have done this or that, there's no evidence to support it because he didn't under the senior Shanahan. If we're honest, Dude was a flailing fish under MS. Gruden and the younger Shanny calmed him down to the point where he could become functional at the NFL level. Let us be mindful of the fact that HC's can and do ruin QB's. A very good example of this is Jeff Fisher, the QB killer. Organizations also can be QB killers, by drafting improper fits into their programs and/or not being suited with the ability and flexibility to adjust their programs to that poorly fit choice. True or not, Cleveland is widely known as the QB killing organization and while we have not reached that level of ineptitude yet, it's widely known as dysfunction here.

In as much as Griffin is concerned, who cares? QB's come into the league, some thrive or survive, others don't. It is, what it is, and maybe it's going to take more time for some here to get over Griffin, but like Heath Shuler, time, will surely make him, as it has done for others, past tense and no longer worth mentioning.

i dont buy it at all . i buy a 4th rounder learning .

here are the numbers . shanny's years 1-2 record , 56% comp % 8 tds 10 ints 1320 yds

gruden 1st year 1-4 record 61.8% 1710 yds 10 tds 9 ints

i would say fairly comparable except completion % which could be attributed to more experience

when he was given the keys he took off just as MS had said all along . MS never got the chance to follow through totally

now sure gruden did some coaching as all HC's do but to say he was the driving factor and not KC's talent is simply untrue . he had the talent all along and when given the opportunity he thrived because his talent demanded the opportunity .

and your talent has to demand action as we saw with AJ Mccarron . he couldnt beat out Andy dalton and i totally blew away the "money " debate in another post but for you i will repeat it . dalton in 2017 made 15 mil , AJ , half a mil. paying 15.5 mil in combo for a starting competent QB is very good . dalton could be cut this season and it costs 2.4 mil . the next 2 years are zero

 

[deanpet21]

they are both on the downside it was a stupid trade

So a Pro Bowl QB is on his downside? Sure skinsdad. Keep spreading the hate. Smith is a great athlete too but you think he is on his downside. your posts are just laughable.

 

[deanpet21]

I didn't say they were judged based on just numbers.

You said to ignore the numbers we should just listen to whatever you say. THAT is moronic.

its not about what I say. it was about what Smith has done recently and he is a good athlete to boot. But those things get ignored?

 

[deanpet21]

Brady, Brees, and Ben might not either, but you said you'd take them over Smith. When the season opens:
Eli 37
Brady 41
Brees 39
Ben 36

I love Nelson, but from the Niners beat writers, I keep getting this feeling that the Niners won't spend the 9/10 pick on a OG. What they really want is a CB (they'll want Jackson more than Ward), but we'll likely fill the CB need in FA, or a pass rusher but we'll probably have to trade up to get Chubb and I think that's too early for Davenport, or an OT that can play OG for a year or 2. I think the realistic player the Niners want is OT/OG Isaiah Wynn.

Those guys are better QB's talent wise. lol are you serious?

Wow, I hope that happens. Push Nelson down for the Skins. I have the 49ers going Ward or the VT LB. Is Ridley too high for you at 9 or 10?

 

[Stymietee]

i dont buy it at all . i buy a 4th rounder learning .

here are the numbers . shanny's years 1-2 record , 56% comp % 8 tds 10 ints 1320 yds

gruden 1st year 1-4 record 61.8% 1710 yds 10 tds 9 ints

i would say fairly comparable except completion % which could be attributed to more experience

when he was given the keys he took off just as MS had said all along . MS never got the chance to follow through totally

now sure gruden did some coaching as all HC's do but to say he was the driving factor and not KC's talent is simply untrue . he had the talent all along and when given the opportunity he thrived because his talent demanded the opportunity .

and your talent has to demand action as we saw with AJ Mccarron . he couldnt beat out Andy dalton and i totally blew away the "money " debate in another post but for you i will repeat it . dalton in 2017 made 15 mil , AJ , half a mil. paying 15.5 mil in combo for a starting competent QB is very good . dalton could be cut this season and it costs 2.4 mil . the next 2 years are zero

Thanks for proving my point! Under MS he was shit, under Gruden he became what he is, that is a fact. However, to be fair to you, I'll wait as you create a new thread advocating the return of MS and see how far that gets you, since you appear to have the position that MS's time here could have been extended with a little patience, some steel in his spine and a belief that benching Kirk in favor of Colt was a temporary thing.So, yeah beyond all of that, MS, truly believed that Kirk when he did hand him the keys just needed a little time. What? Did yiu forget that MS handed Kirk the keys, before benching him?

What point, other than attempting and ultimately failing to pick at me, are you referencing Griffin and now McCarron. McCarron would have been a better fit in Gruden's offense than Cousins, that is all that I have ever really said about the guy. Look it up, I can withstand a search on that count. Whether you or anyone else agrees or not is not relevant to my perspective.