If Josh Allen falls to #13

[skinsdad62]

Ok, just from what comes immediately to mind:

1. That Griffin lost his Job the moment Gruden was hired, unrelated to Kirk

2. That Mike Shanahan destroyed any hope that Griffin would have even modest success long term.

3. That Griffin wanted to become the type of QB with more than a fleeting stay in the NFL, and once he suggested publicly that's what he wanted, there was no stomach in the organization to sit him and properly transition him into the pro game. (BTW: that die was cast once he was named starter after being drafted)

4. Injuries

5. Me, me, me from Griffin

6. Snyder's favorite who gained veto power from an impetuous owner

7. Weak, professional football management group, who were paid to build a winning program but selected to keep their jobs instead of doing the correct thing despite the owner.

1) didnt gruden start him for a year ?
2) MS had no choice but to play him ,
3) RG3 wasnt ready to be that kind of qb and he failed again at his next stop
4) he was uninjured when KC took over
5) If me me me caused him to be benched because he wouldnt listen listen listen while the other guy did did did listen then he got beat out
6) that would work against KC beating him out
7) i dont see how that worked in KC's favor RG 3 was the anointed one

 

[Stymietee]

1) didnt gruden start him for a year ?
2) MS had no choice but to play him ,
3) RG3 wasnt ready to be that kind of qb and he failed again at his next stop
4) he was uninjured when KC took over
5) If me me me caused him to be benched because he wouldnt listen listen listen while the other guy did did did listen then he got beat out
6) that would work against KC beating him out
7) i dont see how that worked in KC's favor RG 3 was the anointed one

1) didnt gruden start him for a year?....Yep, try starting your car without oil or fuel

2) MS had no choice but to play him ,....Of course he did, he was just a weak GM and human being

3) RG3 wasnt ready to be that kind of qb and he failed again at his next stop. My point... EXACTLY!!

4) he was uninjured when KC took over, Concussion, remember?

5) If me me me caused him to be benched because he wouldnt listen listen listen while the other guy did did did listen then he got beat out.... Agree to this point, he did contribute to his own demise, but he got help from Snyder

6) that would work against KC beating him out...AND the ultimate sign of dysfunction.

7) i dont see how that worked in KC's favor RG 3 was the anointed one...see answer #2

 

[gkekoa]

1) didnt gruden start him for a year?....Yep, try starting your car without oil or fuel

2) MS had no choice but to play him ,....Of course he did, he was just a weak GM and human being

3) RG3 wasnt ready to be that kind of qb and he failed again at his next stop. My point... EXACTLY!!

4) he was uninjured when KC took over, Concussion, remember?

5) If me me me caused him to be benched because he wouldnt listen listen listen while the other guy did did did listen then he got beat out.... Agree to this point, he did contribute to his own demise, but he got help from Snyder

6) that would work against KC beating him out...AND the ultimate sign of dysfunction.

7) i dont see how that worked in KC's favor RG 3 was the anointed one...see answer #2

1- So every time something new occurs, we should have sat RG3out and gave him extra time to learn?

2- When your boss forces a trade and essentially tells you to play somebody, what do you do?

3- RG3 still isn’t ready to be that kind of QB because only his legs made him special. He was never going to be that kind of QB.

5- He was a grown ass man. He destroyed himself.

 

[Stymietee]

1- So every time something new occurs, we should have sat RG3out and gave him extra time to learn?

2- When your boss forces a trade and essentially tells you to play somebody, what do you do?

3- RG3 still isn’t ready to be that kind of QB because only his legs made him special. He was never going to be that kind of QB.

5- He was a grown ass man. He destroyed himself.

]1- So every time something new occurs, we should have sat RG3out and gave him extra time to learn?

I spoke of this in real time not retrospectively. In fact, I said so before and at the time he was drafted. It seems that there are some who still believe that the trend in these type QB's is something new, and that they like old school QB should be thrown into a sink or swim situation. If nothing else this years crop of NFL eligible QB's teaches us, there may be, and that a pretty big may be, one of them who's NFL ready. That trend will only continue because of the way schools run their offenses. NOT sure where your "should have " comes from.

2- When your boss forces a trade and essentially tells you to play somebody, what do you do?

If you are who you claim to be, you stand in favor of what's best for the team, the organization and your player. He wasn't ready and that is the baseline from which MS should have operated, especially in this case where the investment was so costly. It's not as if MS didn't know this, after HE in part draft the insurance policy

3- RG3 still isn’t ready to be that kind of QB because only his legs made him special. He was never going to be that kind of QB.

Griffin is ruined, whether or not he could have become that type of QB is pure speculation, both ways. Now we'll never ACTUALLY know what he might have been if properly transitioned in the NFL game. One other thing that we'll never know, is what sitting him would have done to temper the massive ego he had, in the way that it did with Joe Theismann.

5- He was a grown ass man. He destroyed himself...

Yep, and he had a lot of help because of D.C. Dysfunction. ​

 

[gkekoa]

]1- So every time something new occurs, we should have sat RG3out and gave him extra time to learn?

I spoke of this in real time not retrospectively. In fact, I said so before and at the time he was drafted. It seems that there are some who still believe that the trend in these type QB's is something new, and that they like old school QB should be thrown into a sink or swim situation. If nothing else this years crop of NFL eligible QB's teaches us, there may be, and that a pretty big may be, one of them who's NFL ready. That trend will only continue because of the way schools run their offenses. NOT sure where your "should have " comes from.

2- When your boss forces a trade and essentially tells you to play somebody, what do you do?

If you are who you claim to be, you stand in favor of what's best for the team, the organization and your player. He wasn't ready and that is the baseline from which MS should have operated, especially in this case where the investment was so costly. It's not as if MS didn't know this, after HE in part draft the insurance policy

3- RG3 still isn’t ready to be that kind of QB because only his legs made him special. He was never going to be that kind of QB.

Griffin is ruined, whether or not he could have become that type of QB is pure speculation, both ways. Now we'll never ACTUALLY know what he might have been if properly transitioned in the NFL game. One other thing that we'll never know, is what sitting him would have done to temper the massive ego he had, in the way that it did with Joe Theismann.

5- He was a grown ass man. He destroyed himself...

Yep, and he had a lot of help because of D.C. Dysfunction. ​

1- I am referring to under Gruden. Did you say he should have sat under Gruden to learn after being in the league two years?

2- Again, your boss is your boss. You will do what he tells you to do because he is your boss.

3- Griffin was always ruined as a pocket passer because it isn’t who he was. What made him special was his legs. That is why he was selected two overall. If we wanted a pocket passer, there were plenty already better.

5- A man doesn’t need assistance in destroying himself. Now people can get help in fixing themselves. DC just brought out who Griffin was.

 

[Stymietee]

1- I am referring to under Gruden. Did you say he should have sat under Gruden to learn after being in the league two years?

2- Again, your boss is your boss. You will do what he tells you to do because he is your boss.

3- Griffin was always ruined as a pocket passer because it isn’t who he was. What made him special was his legs. That is why he was selected two overall. If we wanted a pocket passer, there were plenty already better.

5- A man doesn’t need assistance in destroying himself. Now people can get help in fixing themselves. DC just brought out who Griffin was.

1. What else do you do with an asset that you've paid so handsomely for and he hurts your team by being on the field? If he's not ready...he's not ready.

2. B.U.L.L.S.H.I.T...Boss tells you to jump off the roof, and you'd do that? Doing the right thing is sometimes difficult, I understand that, but you do it anyway because it's the proper thing to do, even when your boss tells you otherwise.

3. No one is born a QB, it takes training. Griffin was trained to play the game in the manner that he did. I'm not saying that he might have been any good at all after learning to play in the pocket, isn't it true that the team knew all about the manner in which he played the game and therefore, were responsible for either setting up the same sort of system that made him what he was or retraining the player to fit their way from the moment they drafted him?

5. Again, bullshit, no "man" is born a man, we're either raised to be responsible people or we're not. Responsible people don't suddenly decide to destroy themselves. There's a weakness that was in some form or fashion instilled in that child and later became his/her fallback. For the sake of this conversation, the best example, is one where a person believes that he/she must do the wrong thing simply because the boss said so.

 

[gkekoa]

1. What else do you do with an asset that you've paid so handsomely for and he hurts your team by being on the field? If he's not ready...he's not ready.

2. B.U.L.L.S.H.I.T...Boss tells you to jump off the roof, and you'd do that? Doing the right thing is sometimes difficult, I understand that, but you do it anyway because it's the proper thing to do, even when your boss tells you otherwise.

3. No one is born a QB, it takes training. Griffin was trained to play the game in the manner that he did. I'm not saying that he might have been any good at all after learning to play in the pocket, isn't it true that the team knew all about the manner in which he played the game and therefore, were responsible for either setting up the same sort of system that made him what he was or retraining the player to fit their way from the moment they drafted him?

5. Again, bullshit, no "man" is born a man, we're either raised to be responsible people or we're not. Responsible people don't suddenly decide to destroy themselves. There's a weakness that was in some form or fashion instilled in that child and later became his/her fallback. For the sake of this conversation, the best example, is one where a person believes that he/she must do the wrong thing simply because the boss said so.

1- At what point does the asset become a liability?

2- Jumping off the roof hurts you. Playing the bitch does not.

3- Kyle did in fact set up the offense for the things RGME could do.

5- People make decisions based on reward and consequence. You disobey the boss, you get fired. No reward.

 

[Stymietee]

1- At what point does the asset become a liability?

2- Jumping off the roof hurts you. Playing the bitch does not.

3- Kyle did in fact set up the offense for the things RGME could do.

5- People make decisions based on reward and consequence. You disobey the boss, you get fired. No reward.

1. In this case from the moment you draft him.

2. They're one and the same.

3. Yep, and we all knew that Griffin wouldn't survive very long doing that. Pretty sure Griffin knew it as well.

4. True of weak people, let me change that to shallow people, but there are bigger factors than reward or consequence. See: #2.
Ethics, evidence, experience, morality, and propriety are all bigger factors than money to name a few) I can live with getting fired for doing the right thing, living with myself by doing the wrong thing simply because I was afraid for my job, destroys who I am. There's always another job.

 

[gkekoa]

1. In this case from the moment you draft him.

2. They're one and the same.

3. Yep, and we all knew that Griffin wouldn't survive very long doing that. Pretty sure Griffin knew it as well.

4. True of weak people, let me change that to shallow people, but there are bigger factors than reward or consequence. See: #2.
Ethics, evidence, experience, morality, and propriety are all bigger factors than money to name a few) I can live with getting fired for doing the right thing, living with myself by doing the wrong thing simply because I was afraid for my job, destroys who I am. There's always another job.

1- Year 1 he wasn’t.

2- Except not.

3-Nobody told RG 3 to continue fighting for a yard while a guy is holding your leg with Haloti Ngata coming while four yards for a first.

4- Ethics is based on reward/consequence.
Experience is bas3d on reward/consequence.
Morality is based on reward/consequence.
Propriety finds its basis in morality so it is based on reward/consequence.
Evidence is simply a result.

 

[Stymietee]

1- Year 1 he wasn’t.

2- Except not.

3-Nobody told RG 3 to continue fighting for a yard while a guy is holding your leg with Haloti Ngata coming while four yards for a first.

4- Ethics is based on reward/consequence.
Experience is bas3d on reward/consequence.
Morality is based on reward/consequence.
Propriety finds its basis in morality so it is based on reward/consequence.
Evidence is simply a result.

Whatever man!

 

[Niner Outlaw]

Josh Allen has to be the most polarizing player in this draft.

 

[skinsdad62]

1) didnt gruden start him for a year?....Yep, try starting your car without oil or fuel

2) MS had no choice but to play him ,....Of course he did, he was just a weak GM and human being

3) RG3 wasnt ready to be that kind of qb and he failed again at his next stop. My point... EXACTLY!!

4) he was uninjured when KC took over, Concussion, remember?

5) If me me me caused him to be benched because he wouldnt listen listen listen while the other guy did did did listen then he got beat out.... Agree to this point, he did contribute to his own demise, but he got help from Snyder

6) that would work against KC beating him out...AND the ultimate sign of dysfunction.

7) i dont see how that worked in KC's favor RG 3 was the anointed one...see answer #2

ok 4 ) the concision didnt last forever , he was cleared by week one

it was plain to see that when you watched film on RG3 he couldnt run the offense period

 

[Stymietee]

ok 4 ) the concision didnt last forever , he was cleared by week one

it was plain to see that when you watched film on RG3 he couldnt run the offense period

Once the concussion happened Gruden had his excuse for benching him with Dan's consent. He wouldn't do it unless he had an explainable reason, this was his.

I agree that it was plain to see live and/or when you watched film that Griffin couldn't run the offense. No argument there, however, why was this ONLY discoverable AFTER spending as much as they did to get him originally? Square peg into round hole mentality is not a formula to success in the NFL.

This team was not set up for a Griffin type player to run its offense. Let's remember that they created a "Gimmicked" system to get what they did out of him in 2012. However they drafted him anyway, then tried to force that square peg into that round hole, the rest as they say, is history. One other thing, if you remember, there was one guy on the old ESPN and following that, this site, calling for Bruce Allen to be fired back then. People were so giddy over the possibilities that the 2012 season offered, that he was told in no uncertain terms that he was cray-cray. How about now?

 

[gkekoa]

Once the concussion happened Gruden had his excuse for benching him with Dan's consent. He wouldn't do it unless he had an explainable reason, this was his.

I agree that it was plain to see live and/or when you watched film that Griffin couldn't run the offense. No argument there, however, why was this ONLY discoverable AFTER spending as much as they did to get him originally? Square peg into round hole mentality is not a formula to success in the NFL.

This team was not set up for a Griffin type player to run its offense. Let's remember that they created a "Gimmicked" system to get what they did out of him in 2012. However they drafted him anyway, then tried to force that square peg into that round hole, the rest as they say, is history. One other thing, if you remember, there was one guy on the old ESPN and following that, this site, calling for Bruce Allen to be fired back then. People were so giddy over the possibilities that the 2012 season offered, that he was told in no uncertain terms that he was cray-cray. How about now?

Worked in 2012 when Kyle designed the offense for RG3’s skills.

Why can’t any other team in the league make a square hole that RG3fits in?

Maybe RG3 is just a peg that doesn’t fit anywhere because he sucks.

 

[Stymietee]

Worked in 2012 when Kyle designed the offense for RG3’s skills.

Why can’t any other team in the league make a square hole that RG3fits in?

Maybe RG3 is just a peg that doesn’t fit anywhere because he sucks.

Duct tape works on a broken window for a while, what's your point?

 

[skinsdad62]

Once the concussion happened Gruden had his excuse for benching him with Dan's consent. He wouldn't do it unless he had an explainable reason, this was his.

I agree that it was plain to see live and/or when you watched film that Griffin couldn't run the offense. No argument there, however, why was this ONLY discoverable AFTER spending as much as they did to get him originally? Square peg into round hole mentality is not a formula to success in the NFL.

This team was not set up for a Griffin type player to run its offense. Let's remember that they created a "Gimmicked" system to get what they did out of him in 2012. However they drafted him anyway, then tried to force that square peg into that round hole, the rest as they say, is history. One other thing, if you remember, there was one guy on the old ESPN and following that, this site, calling for Bruce Allen to be fired back then. People were so giddy over the possibilities that the 2012 season offered, that he was told in no uncertain terms that he was cray-cray. How about now?

point being is for whatever reason RG3 was beaten out , the excuse given was immaterial . if snyder could have justified going with Rg3 he would have

now for the square peg thing , MS has said on the record quite a few times and posted ion this forum that RG3 wasnt ready to run a pro offense . in the end MS and the owner came to a loggerhead on the issue with the BOSS winning out

the BOSS overuled him at draft time and demanded he play him . the coach did what he could to be successful with him

the qb guru was brought in and it became clear Rg3 couldnt run a pro style offense . the guru being gruden once KC took over it was clear he was the better qb . if he wasnt the rest assured RG3 would have been put in because he was the boss's boy

i was against the trade from the espn days . i have written several posts about my philosphy to build and organization all the way to figuring out how quickly a draft pick should start if they can ever start i dont buy trading up for one guy after my initial anger i supported Rg3 and defended him to the end but the fact is he wasnt a pro qb

 

[Stymietee]

point being is for whatever reason RG3 was beaten out , the excuse given was immaterial . if snyder could have justified going with Rg3 he would have

now for the square peg thing , MS has said on the record quite a few times and posted ion this forum that RG3 wasnt ready to run a pro offense . in the end MS and the owner came to a loggerhead on the issue with the BOSS winning out

the BOSS overuled him at draft time and demanded he play him . the coach did what he could to be successful with him

the qb guru was brought in and it became clear Rg3 couldnt run a pro style offense . the guru being gruden once KC took over it was clear he was the better qb . if he wasnt the rest assured RG3 would have been put in because he was the boss's boy

i was against the trade from the espn days . i have written several posts about my philosphy to build and organization all the way to figuring out how quickly a draft pick should start if they can ever start i dont buy trading up for one guy after my initial anger i supported Rg3 and defended him to the end but the fact is he wasnt a pro qb

OK, good description of dysfunction!

 

[skinsdad62]

OK, good description of dysfunction!

call it what you may KC started Rg3 sat

 

[Stymietee]

call it what you may KC started Rg3 sat

OK