If Brady makes the sb and loses

[NWPATSFAN]

Did Montana play 14 seasons with SF? No, he didn't. He played 13 and was hurt the last two seasons.

Brady went to his fifth sb in his 11th season. Brady went to his fourth sb in his 7th season.

Montana went to his fourth sb in his 10th season. However, considering he went to his first one in his second season as a starter. Starting from when he dictated SF's seasons he went to his fourth in 9 seasons. Had he not gone to the KC chiefs of all teams he would have had a fifth. After all, he took KC to the AFCCG, but Buffalo was playing for their fourth straight sb bid and KC had not won a playoff game in 24 seasons.

And Brady's losing sb appearances came through these matchups on the way
Jacksonville
San Diego(who was banged up, LT and Rivers were not healthy)
Denver(who was 8-8 btw)
Baltimore(who almost won)

NE played sloppy in three of those games. Tebow lost his job because of the blowout loss by Denver.

Brady also ended his season to these
Denver twice(one Plummer, other Manning)(in Denver)
Indianapolis(Manning, two losses to Manning)
Baltimore(twice)
New York Jets

Montana's seasons ended against these
Washington(83 the redskins were big then)
New York Giants(85 who won the sb the following season)
Minnesota(87)
New York Giants(90, who won the sb)

Brady ended his season to four teams who didn't win the sb. And three who didn't make the sb.

Montana ended his season to three teams who didn't win the sb. And two who didn't make it.

And let's compare
Brady's first season-Playoffs and sb
Montana's first-no playoffs but was not his fault
Brady-1
Brady's second season-no playoffs
Montana's second season-playoffs, HFA, and SB.
Montana-1
Brady's third season-playoffs, HFA, and SB
Montana's third season-no playoffs due to strike shortened season
Brady-2
Brady's fourth season-playoffs and SB
Montana's fourth season-playoffs but no SB, lost in NFCCG though
Brady-3
Brady's fifth season-playoffs, lost in divisional
Montana's fourth season-playoffs, HFA, and SB
Montana-2
Brady's sixth season-playoffs, lost in AFCCG
Montana's sixth season-playoffs, lost in wild card
Brady-4
Brady's seventh season-playoffs, HFA, and SB loss
Montana's seventh season-no playoffs, played eight games due to back injury
Brady-5
Brady's eighth superbowl-injured and missed rest of season early week 1 on.
Montana's eighth season-playoffs, lost in divisional. Played eight games due to injury.
Montana-3
Brady's ninth season-playoffs, lost in wild card.
Montana's ninth season-playoffs and SB.
Montana-4
Brady's tenth season-playoffs, HFA, lost in divisional
Montana's tenth season-playoffs, HFA, and SB
Montana-5
Brady's eleventh season-playoffs, HFA, and SB loss
Montana's eighth season-playoffs, HFA, lost in NFCCG
**Montana lost to the sb winner so this is a draw

So you see after Montana's last true season with SF, he has the same advantage points as Brady. However Brady's first advantage was due to Montana not even making the playoffs. His second was due to a strike. His fifth due to Montana's injury.

Montana's first advantage was due to Brady not making the playoffs. His second was due to Brady losing in divisional. His fourth was due to Brady losing in wild card because he didn't have Wes Welker. His fifth was due to Brady losing in divisional to a division rival whose starting qb was Mark Sanchez.

Brady's third and fourth were legit. Montana's first, second, fourth, and fifth were legit.

And let's also compare home wins out of home games played
Brady-17 with 14 games won
Montana-12 with 9 won

Road games
Brady-6 with 3 won
Montana-2 with 1 won

Brady's had more chances. If Montana had more chances who knows what would have happened.

Playing in more SBs is not the barometer for success when he would not have been in one in 11 if not for Manning's injury(Colts would have had HFA, Brady doesn't even get the 2 seed). Losing the SB is no accomplishment. It was not back then. That's for sure. It's better to miss than to lose. Also, Montana lost playoff games in a conference that dominated for 12 years straight. Brady lost to the other conference and one time the other was not superior. He also lost playoff games in three other years his conference was not superior.

Brady loses the sb he has only won 57% of his SB appearances. That's no GOAT.

Wow all this and you throw out the injury card for Manning. Thanks for wasting 5 minutes of my life

 

[Nosferatu]

I appreciate that Brady has been as successful as he has but he is a system QB, In 2008 the great Matt Cassel won 10 games in that system. Good coach, good defense, good kicker, good system, throw 5 yard passes to guys who turn them into 15 yard gains. Saying Brady is the greatest of all time is like saying Emmitt Smith is the greatest of all time, sure they were great players and winners but they are a product of their team and if they were drafted by Cleveland we wouldn't even remember their names.

Also Randy Moss > Jerry Rice

 

[NWPATSFAN]

I appreciate that Brady has been as successful as he has but he is a system QB, In 2008 the great Matt Cassel won 10 games in that system. Good coach, good defense, good kicker, good system, throw 5 yard passes to guys who turn them into 15 yard gains. Saying Brady is the greatest of all time is like saying Emmitt Smith is the greatest of all time, sure they were great players and winners but they are a product of their team and if they were drafted by Cleveland we wouldn't even remember their names.

Also Randy Moss > Jerry Rice

So your point is what exactly? If Montana doesn't have Clarke and Rice, or if Bradshaw doesn't have Stallworth and Swan and a D... We would never have this conversation. It's a team game. QBs get the glory if they win tge big games.

 

[Nosferatu]

So your point is what exactly? If Montana doesn't have Clarke and Rice, or if Bradshaw doesn't have Stallworth and Swan and a D... We would never have this conversation. It's a team game. QBs get the glory if they win tge big games.

Bradshaw didn't win because of Swann and Stallworth, the Steelers won because of Jack Lambert, Mel Blount, Joe Greene, Jack Ham and L.C. Greenwood. Lynn Swann is one of the top 3 most overrated players in the history of the game.

Dwight Clark really wasn't that great, he's known for one catch other than that he was average at best. Rice didn't make Montana great, Montana made Rice great. Go look at some film, all those receptions Rice had he never had to jump or dive for the ball it was always right there.

Of course it's a team game, I never said anything to the contrary.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

Bradshaw didn't win because of Swann and Stallworth, the Steelers won because of Jack Lambert, Mel Blount, Joe Greene, Jack Ham and L.C. Greenwood. Lynn Swann is one of the top 3 most overrated players in the history of the game.

Dwight Clark really wasn't that great, he's known for one catch other than that he was average at best. Rice didn't make Montana great, Montana made Rice great. Go look at some film, all those receptions Rice had he never had to jump or dive for the ball it was always right there.

Of course it's a team game, I never said anything to the contrary.

First note I mentioned the steeler D in my post. These were only examples. I could've named combinations of players, Ds, systems, coaches from all 49 SB winners. Bottom line you can hate all you want on Brady and the Pats system but don't ignore it's a team game which you did until this post. Otherwise you appear to have little credit to your claim.

 

[Nosferatu]

First note I mentioned the steeler D in my post. These were only examples. I could've named combinations of players, Ds, systems, coaches from all 49 SB winners. Bottom line you can hate all you want on Brady and the Pats system but don't ignore it's a team game which you did until this post. Otherwise you appear to have little credit to your claim.

I'm sorry, i'm not sure the point you're trying to make, I mean no disrespect though... I don't hate Brady, I don't like the Patriots as a lot of fans of the game don't, people usually hate winners unless they win for their team. I was simply making a point Brady is a system QB which he absolutely is.

 

[cdumler7]

Bradshaw didn't win because of Swann and Stallworth, the Steelers won because of Jack Lambert, Mel Blount, Joe Greene, Jack Ham and L.C. Greenwood. Lynn Swann is one of the top 3 most overrated players in the history of the game.

Dwight Clark really wasn't that great, he's known for one catch other than that he was average at best. Rice didn't make Montana great, Montana made Rice great. Go look at some film, all those receptions Rice had he never had to jump or dive for the ball it was always right there.

Of course it's a team game, I never said anything to the contrary.

I would say Rice and Montana helped each other look great! While Rice definitely was the beneficiary of having some great QB play he also helped with his incredible route running and great hands.

All these guys benefit from one another. It is why it is impossible to say 1 player went out and won these Super Bowls. I mean Brady himself benefited earlier in his career from some incredible teams around him. Those first couple of Super Bowl wins it was more telling him don't go out and lose the game for us just get out of our way. At the same time he was instrumental in other playoff runs. Montana the same way of having a great team around him. They always say that when the playoffs come around that usually what happens is an unknown player really steps up their game and comes out of nowhere. Every team right now still left has plenty of all stars. It is the supporting case stepping up though that will win or lose these games today.

 

[Nosferatu]

I in no way meant to say Rice wasn't an absolutely amazing player, his work ethic alone is as good as any player who ever played. But facts are he sure benefited from pretty damn good QB play for a lot of his career.

 

[cdumler7]

I in no way meant to say Rice wasn't an absolutely amazing player, his work ethic alone is as good as any player who ever played. But facts are he sure benefited from pretty damn good QB play for a lot of his career.

You are correct. You don't put up the ridiculous numbers that he did without great QB play. I look at a player like Larry Fitzgerald and honestly feel so bad for him that most of his career he has had terrible QB play around him. We see this year when everybody had written him off that he has a healthy good QB throwing to him and he has a great season. If he had Montana and Young throwing to him his entire career I honestly think he would have broke Rice's records. That is why this is the ultimate team game in it still takes players around you doing well to have success as a team and sometimes even as an individual.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

I'm sorry, i'm not sure the point you're trying to make, I mean no disrespect though... I don't hate Brady, I don't like the Patriots as a lot of fans of the game don't, people usually hate winners unless they win for their team. I was simply making a point Brady is a system QB which he absolutely is.

The point I was trying to make was any QB mentioned as the GOAT had/has great teamates, coaches, system or a combination. To ignore any wouldn't be doing them justice. No disrespect taken.

 

[Nosferatu]

You are correct. You don't put up the ridiculous numbers that he did without great QB play. I look at a player like Larry Fitzgerald and honestly feel so bad for him that most of his career he has had terrible QB play around him. We see this year when everybody had written him off that he has a healthy good QB throwing to him and he has a great season. If he had Montana and Young throwing to him his entire career I honestly think he would have broke Rice's records. That is why this is the ultimate team game in it still takes players around you doing well to have success as a team and sometimes even as an individual.

Can I count on you to take the Broncos again in our annual NFL draft this year?

 

[Nosferatu]

The point I was trying to make was any QB mentioned as the GOAT had/has great teamates, coaches, system or a combination. To ignore any wouldn't be doing them justice. No disrespect taken.

Fair enough

 

[cdumler7]

Can I count on you to take the Broncos again in our annual NFL draft this year?

Sign me up! Always excited for that. Just wish we could figure out a way to keep people engaged after the 3rd or so round. It was a bit better last year if I remember right compared to the first time we did it.

 

[Nosferatu]

Sign me up! Always excited for that. Just wish we could figure out a way to keep people engaged after the 3rd or so round. It was a bit better last year if I remember right compared to the first time we did it.

Yes, it's getting better as we get better people involved, glad to have ya back...

 

[cdumler7]

Yes, it's getting better as we get better people involved, glad to have ya back...

Always up for some draft talk! I'm sure some of the new guys on the Broncos board would be interested too. They did something very similar on their old board with great success. They are very involved on the board so don't have to worry about them signing up then disappearing for days. Just remind them though that the Broncos are spoken for!

 

[Nosferatu]

Always up for some draft talk! I'm sure some of the new guys on the Broncos board would be interested too. They did something very similar on their old board with great success. They are very involved on the board so don't have to worry about them signing up then disappearing for days. Just remind them though that the Broncos are spoken for!

Prolly gonna need somebody for the Jaguars

 

[cdumler7]

Prolly gonna need somebody for the Jaguars

Well I will pass word on the Broncos board then as that could be a fun one with a high pick and a pretty talented young team to look into.

 

[Jakology]

"

Did Montana play 14 seasons with SF? No, he didn't. He played 13 and was hurt the last two seasons.

Brady went to his fifth sb in his 11th season. Brady went to his fourth sb in his 7th season.

Montana went to his fourth sb in his 10th season. However, considering he went to his first one in his second season as a starter. Starting from when he dictated SF's seasons he went to his fourth in 9 seasons. Had he not gone to the KC chiefs of all teams he would have had a fifth. After all, he took KC to the AFCCG, but Buffalo was playing for their fourth straight sb bid and KC had not won a playoff game in 24 seasons.

And Brady's losing sb appearances came through these matchups on the way
Jacksonville
San Diego(who was banged up, LT and Rivers were not healthy)
Denver(who was 8-8 btw)
Baltimore(who almost won)

NE played sloppy in three of those games. Tebow lost his job because of the blowout loss by Denver.

Brady also ended his season to these
Denver twice(one Plummer, other Manning)(in Denver)
Indianapolis(Manning, two losses to Manning)
Baltimore(twice)
New York Jets

Montana's seasons ended against these
Washington(83 the redskins were big then)
New York Giants(85 who won the sb the following season)
Minnesota(87)
New York Giants(90, who won the sb)

Brady ended his season to four teams who didn't win the sb. And three who didn't make the sb.

Montana ended his season to three teams who didn't win the sb. And two who didn't make it.

And let's compare
Brady's first season-Playoffs and sb
Montana's first-no playoffs but was not his fault
Brady-1
Brady's second season-no playoffs
Montana's second season-playoffs, HFA, and SB.
Montana-1
Brady's third season-playoffs, HFA, and SB
Montana's third season-no playoffs due to strike shortened season
Brady-2
Brady's fourth season-playoffs and SB
Montana's fourth season-playoffs but no SB, lost in NFCCG though
Brady-3
Brady's fifth season-playoffs, lost in divisional
Montana's fourth season-playoffs, HFA, and SB
Montana-2
Brady's sixth season-playoffs, lost in AFCCG
Montana's sixth season-playoffs, lost in wild card
Brady-4
Brady's seventh season-playoffs, HFA, and SB loss
Montana's seventh season-no playoffs, played eight games due to back injury
Brady-5
Brady's eighth superbowl-injured and missed rest of season early week 1 on.
Montana's eighth season-playoffs, lost in divisional. Played eight games due to injury.
Montana-3
Brady's ninth season-playoffs, lost in wild card.
Montana's ninth season-playoffs and SB.
Montana-4
Brady's tenth season-playoffs, HFA, lost in divisional
Montana's tenth season-playoffs, HFA, and SB
Montana-5
Brady's eleventh season-playoffs, HFA, and SB loss
Montana's eighth season-playoffs, HFA, lost in NFCCG
**Montana lost to the sb winner so this is a draw

So you see after Montana's last true season with SF, he has the same advantage points as Brady. However Brady's first advantage was due to Montana not even making the playoffs. His second was due to a strike. His fifth due to Montana's injury.

Montana's first advantage was due to Brady not making the playoffs. His second was due to Brady losing in divisional. His fourth was due to Brady losing in wild card because he didn't have Wes Welker. His fifth was due to Brady losing in divisional to a division rival whose starting qb was Mark Sanchez.

Brady's third and fourth were legit. Montana's first, second, fourth, and fifth were legit.

And let's also compare home wins out of home games played
Brady-17 with 14 games won
Montana-12 with 9 won

Road games
Brady-6 with 3 won
Montana-2 with 1 won

Brady's had more chances. If Montana had more chances who knows what would have happened.

Playing in more SBs is not the barometer for success when he would not have been in one in 11 if not for Manning's injury(Colts would have had HFA, Brady doesn't even get the 2 seed). Losing the SB is no accomplishment. It was not back then. That's for sure. It's better to miss than to lose. Also, Montana lost playoff games in a conference that dominated for 12 years straight. Brady lost to the other conference and one time the other was not superior. He also lost playoff games in three other years his conference was not superior.

Brady loses the sb he has only won 57% of his SB appearances. That's no GOAT.

Pro tip: Nobody here is going to read that much shit.

 

[NEhomer]

I appreciate that Brady has been as successful as he has but he is a system QB, In 2008 the great Matt Cassel won 10 games in that system. Good coach, good defense, good kicker, good system, throw 5 yard passes to guys who turn them into 15 yard gains. Saying Brady is the greatest of all time is like saying Emmitt Smith is the greatest of all time, sure they were great players and winners but they are a product of their team and if they were drafted by Cleveland we wouldn't even remember their names.

Also Randy Moss > Jerry Rice

Thank you Malcolm Butler. It's hilarious what shreds the Pats haters have to hang on to....the Cassel year....Lol! Brady would have won the SB with that team for God's sake.

 

[darken65]

Wow all this and you throw out the injury card for Manning. Thanks for wasting 5 minutes of my life

It took you 5 minutes to read that?