Current State of Reds and Beyond

[eburg5000]

Question, If the Reds lose tonight's game then lose all the games to the Mariners. Do you think Price might be in trouble? Or do you think they will give him a pass, because of the injury's to the pitching staff.

 

[JohnU]

Cozart is arb eligible next year, free agent 2018

 

[JohnU]

I never liked Price all that much but it's an odd scenario. They canned Dusty for not winning the big one and his top pitcher was hurt, so was Ludwick. Firing Price won't fix much but I think they have to do it just because it has to be done. Price has not shown to be a motivator. Innovator, maybe ... for a week or two.

If the coaching staff should be held liable for bad play, that's on the manager.
If the coaching is NOT liable, then that's on the minor leagues.
If you are gonna rebuild, then clean house. Stop lying. This is a cozy front office and it doesn't work.

 

[Hit-n-Run]

I don't know if anyone else follows the minor league affiliates, but I check in to see how the top 30 prospects are progressing.

The Reds top 30 prospects is comprised of 14 position players and 16 pitchers. Some of those names will be bumped off the list after the June draft and others will never see GABP, but it is what it is.

The pitchers whose names we all know are off to very nice starts. Rob Stephenson, Cody Reed, Amir Garrett, Keury Mella, Rookie Davis, Tyler Mahle.
After that it's a little thin, but a nice 2.98 ERA for the entire group.

Then you look at the position players and it's not as promising. Winker, Peraza, and Daal are the only ones with a .250+ BA. The entire group has a depressing .234 BA. There's a lot of season to go and that number might well improve, but it makes you wonder what the hell they're doing in the scouting and development of position players.

 

[JohnU]

Could be answering your own question. Pitching in the minors is ahead of the hitting.
I suppose we can explain away any numbers we want. I see some Low-A ball off and on in Ft. Wayne and South Bend. I am not usually too impressed with anybody at that level. Young guys, a lot of NDFA kids who might still be 16 years old, speak English well enough to order a Big Mac.

Indy leagues, another matter. Now before you dismiss that, these are older guys who are more often than not just victims of the numbers game. Indy league guys can hit. The problem is, there's not much pitching at that level, so who knows what's what.

I tend to look at doubles, walks:strikeouts and stolen bases for guys in the lower minors. At Triple-A, it kind of depends on why the guy is there.

You don't need a system full of Vottos, but you need a Votto to come out of it every year or two. If you get lucky like the Parrots, you end up with about 5 guys who aren't quite Votto but are a helluva lot better than Costanzo.

I don't know that the Reds currently are hurting all that badly with position players, IF Duvall is the real deal and Suarez can finally hack it at 3B. Hacking is one way of putting it. If IF IF Hamilton ever gets it, the Reds position arrangement is tolerable.

The bench, another matter, catching depth ... tricky ... middle infield ... for now, OK to decent. If Peraza can play, the Reds can swing a deal for an infielder and go from there.

The pitchers have to step up, come to camp in shape, learn some practical pitches, safe and effective mechanics and whatever goes with that. Then the Reds need to find a real pitching coach instead of Riggins.

 

[JohnU]

Let's just say, chico, the guy who has no idea how to use a capital letter, which plane of idiocy Price inhabits:


Exhibit A: Wednesday's night's game.

I know this is alien to you people who study minor league box scores, but
well maybe you can tell us about the 'grip' who decided to piss all over himself.

 

[JohnU]

Here's a number:

200

Price will reach that number pretty soon for losses.
it's not like he's the white guy who is better than Baker.
He's just the white guy who sucks up to the front office better.

 

[chico ruiz]

h-n-r, you know i follow the reds farms. also, i've been posting about -what appeared to me to be- the overall decay or stagnation of scouting and development in the reds system since i joined this board. i've never posted about jocketty's seeming disregard, for this increasingly valued part of a mid-market organization's competitiveness, without giving detail in my assertions. all the prospect names you mention i've mentioned several times. i try to get to some dayton games when i can. by the way, the only way i can get in to see the dragons is through my friend who works at fifth third field. if time and location permits i try to get to daytona, pensacola, and louisville. i have a friend who recently moved to billings, so maybe i'll pay him a visit at some point. also, i've never met a montanan i didn't like. so, if you want to start a thread on this subject, and why it has become increasingly important, i'm all in. you know what the stumbling block will be. there is no way to truthfully and accurately address this glaring weakness without starting with what happened, or didn't happen, 5+ years ago. it is substantively and partially reasonable to discuss it when looking at the 2016 reds results and roster. regardless h-n-r, if you start it, i will follow up.

 

[JohnU]

Anybody can start a thread.

Start with real sentences and real capital letters. Try for some punctuation and paragraphs.

If the device you are using isn't proper, then go out and draft a better one, which is apparently what you insist the baseball team do.

The rest of us struggle to read your rambling 500-word paragraphs that don't contain any discernible periods, capital letters or other punctuation. Put down the thesaurus. Nobody is impressed.

Having a friend in Billings, wow.

 

[chico ruiz]

thesaurus? i'm not using any 10 dollar words at all. i have a fairly extensive vocabulary based on my education. i rarely throw that weight around, and your insult is the only reason i mention it. but, i sure as hell won't apologize for it. 500 word paragraphs? what are you talking about? i simply give opinions, and don't bully anyone on this board. i occasionally spice up posts with personal life experience. seriously, what is wrong with you? i thought you were going to stop this nonsensical personal attack stuff. my posts are not that difficult to read. there are periods, and i do punctuate. you obviously have a problem. stop twisting my words and venting on me. i wasn't remotely trying to impress with my billings friend reference. how do you construe that as such? i'm not sure what i represent to you. i think that is for you and your therapist to work through. however, it's time for you to find another host to attach your misery to. there's a sick cloistered sadness connected with it, that has become disquieting and uncomfortable. being on these types of boards 24 / 7 and holding grudges are incompatible john. it severely limits the ongoing dialectic nature of its purpose. perhaps you should start with a self examination of the 24 / 7 part. for my part, i genuinely hope that you are ok.

 

[eburg5000]

Billings. Nice place, But if you want to go to a MLB game. You will have a long ways to go. Denver 552 miles, Seattle 820 miles, And the winters are cold very cold

 

[chico ruiz]

my god, montana is beautiful mr. eburg. it's breathtaking. however, as you say, serious climate consideration must be taken if you intend to move there. my friend is a elevator repairman who was offered a pay raise and was looking for any reason to get out of 'the city.' so, i'm down a friend in close proximity, but up a comfortable landing spot in billings, which i will be taking advantage of.

 

[JohnU]

i thought you were going to stop this nonsensical personal attack stuff.

I tried but I got some bizarre rant about a guy named "Juice" who was told he was a prick.
There is still zero reason to type these long replies without the aid of capital letters. There really is NO reason for that since several people have asked that you do this so that reading these long run-on paragraphs could be easier.

If you have information or insight about the decay and stagnation of the Reds farm system, I am sure we have all had the opportunity to revel in that epiphany. Whatever that means to the current affairs in Reds Country is still somewhat vague to me.

The genesis of our conflict was that those treatises kept showing up almost at random, endless lines of verbiage without the benefit of a SINGLE capital letter. Now I hear that it's because you apparently type on a keyboard where that's difficult. What the fuck? If you are too busy to use the shift key, what exactly does that illustrate?

I bear no malice toward you but your latest comments about my need to see a therapist border on something I find quite distasteful. It's not the grudge, dude. I tried to end the friction and was given some yarn about a guy bitching out a co-worker. I will now officially end this dispute.

Seriously, what is so difficult about using the shift key?

 

[chico ruiz]

of course 'you' will end this dispute. it's the way you have to have it. you hear what you want to hear. in this case, you read want you want to read. you infer, what you want to infer. i'm a thoughtful person johnny, and i'm blessed with a very good memory. i know exactly what the initial posts were that stuck in your craw. i made a series of posts (backed with detail, evidence, firsthand knowledge, and data) that directly countered a couple of your posts, and you've been up my ass ever since. some of my little half joking yarns come nowhere close to the mean spirited 'get off my lawn' name calling insults that followed from you. please don't insult my intelligence by trying to deny it. now, in child-like lying response, you try to distill it by claiming your absence of capital letters fixation is the root of it all. no johnny. it's the prior line 'at random, endless lines of verbiage' where your belittlement takes place. you picked me out special for this kind of treatment a long time ago.


you constantly throw in backhanded insults like 'revel in that epiphany' that dissuades from wanting to share some of the things i've recently learned from people around the park. h-n-r mentioned that he wanted to read about some of this stuff. but, you constantly try to kill such discussion from the inside out. for instance, i would love to discuss why, in your post #85, 'the pirates got lucky' statement is inaccurate. but mostly - i have to be honest with you - you've carved out a authoritarian, sometimes bordering on xenophobic, niche here. that's what is really distasteful johnny.

 

[JohnU]

So we can keep this up or go somewhere smart. Here is your chance. Start the conversation.

 

[Hit-n-Run]

Back to baseball.

I think we can safely assume pitching is always ahead of hitting. That's reflected at all levels in varying degrees.

When you compare the Reds affiliates to the other teams in their respective leagues, the wishbone is below league batting average in 5 of their 6 leagues. It's only a 40+ game sample size, but I've listed where they rank nonetheless.

Hitting
AAA Louisville- 2nd (the one bright spot, lot of AAAA)
AA Pensacola- next to last
A+ Daytona- next to last
A Dayton- next to last
Rookie Pioneer- last

I don't have the answer to why, but it's a problem for a club that doesn't have deep pockets.

Two weeks away from draft day and the International signing period. Will it be pitching or hitting?

 

[Hit-n-Run]

Dick Williams is quoted as saying the Reds are investing in research and development. It's too early to expect results, but I'll be expecting a noticeable improvement in a few years for my investment.

 

[eburg5000]

Damn that is depressing, How did the Reds let they're organization get in such bad shape. Bad scouting or what.

 

[JohnU]

I still maintain that part of this will come down to:
Is the guy we have as good as the guy we need, relative to what we get for the money?
Suarez will never put up Frazier numbers, but he will be cheaper in 2 years, even if he doesn't bring the personality to the ballpark that made Frazier valuable. If the Reds want to upgrade at 3B, they gotta make some kind of deal, financial or physical. Hell, Suarez is good enough. So we stand pat there.

Going around the infield and outfield, you make the same kinds of judgments on every player. If you conclude that the only thing missing is pitchers, and that all of them are either hurt or on the cusp of making it, you can conclude that the Reds are a couple of years away from a reach for the brass ring.

Small markets will settle for one title, and let the rest of that conversation develop as it can.

What appears to be something else really is ... 3 or 4 years inside the competitive dome for about 3/4 of the teams in MLB. "Rebuilding" is a word everyone uses because it makes the pain a little more bearable. It's another word for "hope".

Sometimes you end up like the Royals, who spent 30 years telling us that next year would be the year they turned it around. Eventually, even the St. Louis Browns won a pennant.

 

[chico ruiz]

excellent question at the end of your post #96 h-n-r. let me ask you one. do you think it can be adequately and thoughtfully answered with 2 or 3 sentences?