Cleveland unions say they'll refuse to hold flag at Browns' opening game

[Manster7588]

The players are kneeling during the anthem and these union folks are refusing to hold the flag.

From the outside w/o context it appears to be the exact same protest.

Their refusing to hold the flag for a TEAM Ceremony, in which a portion of the TEAM isn't taking part in. I dont see any similarities.

 

[Manster7588]

What a cluster fuck.

Again. What part?

 

[Tharvot]

Their refusing to hold the flag for a TEAM Ceremony, in which a portion of the TEAM isn't taking part in. I dont see any similarities.

it's the US flag, not the Browns flag. Otherwise you would be on to something.

In either case, someone is going to think the protesters are disrespecting something representing the US.

 

[Sgt Brutus]

The players are kneeling during the anthem and these union folks are refusing to hold the flag.

From the outside w/o context it appears to be the exact same protest.

Yeah I guess if you live under a rock

 

[Tharvot]

Yeah I guess if you live under a rock

It's not a well though out plan by the union.

Players protesting by sitting out the anthem.

The counter protest for that would be for the union to defiantly wave the flag in front of those players' faces...not to refuse to hold the flag.

Frankly it's all really really stupid.

 

[Sgt Brutus]

In either case, someone is going to think the protesters are disrespecting something representing the US.

What idiot is going to think this? They clearly stated they aren't participating because of Browns players kneeling. You're trying to argue something I've heard no one else say.

I can't find a single article arguing what you're trying to claim here, which is bs if you sit down and actually think about it

 

[Manster7588]

it's the US flag, not the Browns flag. Otherwise you would be on to something.

In either case, someone is going to think the protesters are disrespecting something representing the US.

The way I understand it is the union saying they will not hold the flag for the BROWNS ceremony. They are not saying no to the flag, just the Browns. Truth is they dont need anyone to hold the flag, they can place the flag in a stand behind the singer.
If you want to say they are protesting the protesters I'll agree, but it's not the same in my book.
The players are using the ceremony to get thier protest out there, the union is simply saying find another flag holder.

 

[Sgt Brutus]

The counter protest for that would be for the union to defiantly wave the flag in front of those players' faces...not to refuse to hold the flag.

That's one way they could do it. Or they could choose not to participate in anything Browns related, because as an organization, they ok'd player kneeling during that preseason game. A totally legitimate way of showing displeasure with the Browns and players in my mind. Maybe you should read the article

 

[Tharvot]

What idiot is going to think this? They clearly stated they aren't participating because of Browns players kneeling. You're trying to argue something I've heard no one else say.

I can't find a single article arguing what you're trying to claim here, which is bs if you sit down and actually think about it

I'm not referencing any outside article. Just looking at it objectively.

The way I understand it is the union saying they will not hold the flag for the BROWNS ceremony. They are not saying no to the flag, just the Browns. Truth is they dont need anyone to hold the flag, they can place the flag in a stand behind the singer.
If you want to say they are protesting the protesters I'll agree, but it's not the same in my book.
The players are using the ceremony to get thier protest out there, the union is simply saying find another flag holder.

They are literally saying no to the flag.

That's one way they could do it. Or they could choose not to participate in anything Browns related, because as an organization, they ok'd player kneeling during that preseason game. A totally legitimate way of showing displeasure with the Browns and players in my mind. Maybe you should read the article

They can protest or counter protest however they like. It just seems stupid to me to get mad about players not respecting something US-related and then going ahead and doing the same thing in order to show them up.

I'll never understand why people are so fired up about the kneeling during the anthem. It's harmless.

 

[rmilia1]

The players who are kneeling should offer to hold the flag while they kneel. That would actually help their message which has never been about opposing the flag or veterans . It's solely a conduit for people to try and see their real message . By offering to hold the flag while kneeling they'd put an end to the talk from those who don't get it

 

[Manster7588]

They are literally saying no to the flag.

You are "literally" wrong. Go read the story, not just the click bait head line.

Members of unions representing Cleveland police officers and paramedics have said they won't hold a large U.S. flag during pregame ceremonies before Sunday's Brownsseason opener after a group of the team's players knelt during the national anthem before a preseason game last month.

Steve Loomis, president of the Cleveland Police Patrolmen's Association, cited his service in the U.S. Navy when he told WKYC-TV he was astounded that Browns management knew of the protests but allowed it to occur.

 

[jarntt]

So they are going to teach the players about how important it is to respect the flag during the National Anthem by refusing to hold the flag for the National Anthem

 

[Tharvot]

You are "literally" wrong. Go read the story, not just the click bait head line.

Members of unions representing Cleveland police officers and paramedics have said they won't hold a large U.S. flag during pregame ceremonies before Sunday's Brownsseason opener after a group of the team's players knelt during the national anthem before a preseason game last month.

Steve Loomis, president of the Cleveland Police Patrolmen's Association, cited his service in the U.S. Navy when he told WKYC-TV he was astounded that Browns management knew of the protests but allowed it to occur.

Right, they're refusing to hold the US flag because the Browns made them mad. I understand their motive, I'm just saying it's stupid.

 

[Tharvot]

So they are going to teach the players about how important it is to respect the flag during the National Anthem by refusing to hold the flag for the National Anthem

exactly the point im failing to make.

 

[Manster7588]

So they are going to teach the players about how important it is to respect the flag during the National Anthem by refusing to hold the flag for the National Anthem

No not at all. They will not hold the flag for the Browns organization.

 

[Manster7588]

Right, they're refusing to hold the US flag because the Browns made them mad. I understand their motive, I'm just saying it's stupid.

Is it that they are mad, or is it they don't want to be part if a ceremony where the flag they love is being used in protest?

 

[Tharvot]

Is it that they are mad, or is it they don't want to be part if a ceremony where the flag they love is being used in protest?

Sounds like they're definitely mad about it.

In any case, it's pretty dumb IMO by the union and it sends the wrong message.

 

[Manster7588]

Sounds like they're definitely mad about it.

In any case, it's pretty dumb IMO by the union and it sends the wrong message.

I'll disagree 100% here.

If I'm brought in by an organization to participate in a Anthem ceremony, and a portion of that org decides not to participate I'd refuse to participate in following ceremonies.
That is all they said. If the Browns are going to allow kneeling they will not be part of the ceremony with the Browns.

 

[Tharvot]

I'll disagree 100% here.

If I'm brought in by an organization to participate in a Anthem ceremony, and a portion of that org decides not to participate I'd refuse to participate in following ceremonies.
That is all they said. If the Browns are going to allow kneeling they will not be part of the ceremony with the Browns.

We're not going to see eye to eye on this.

IMO, if the players want to kneel, let em. What do i care? It's their right to demonstrate how they see fit. I may not agree with what they're demonstrating, but I respect their right to do it.

I feel the same way about the union. If they're mad at the browns and don't want to participate, fine. I think it's misguided but it's their prerogative. I'm sure the Browns can find someone else to hold the flag...maybe they'll get a bunch of left wing civil rights folks to do it.

 

[cmc_rebar]

stop playing the Anthem pregame corner.

Wrong!!!!!