All Time Top Ten Shortstops

[ericd7633]

Offensively Jeter is the best shortstop in the last 100 years. Honus Wagner, I'd take over Jeter from an all-time perspective. I don't know why people give him so much hate. He's plays the game the right way. And is one of the best of all time.

 

[steveringo]

Speaking of where Derek Jeter ranks, has anyone else read Rick Reilly's embarrassing love letter to Jeter's kids? This might seriously be the most ridiculous think Reilly has written and that's saying a great deal.

Wow. I couldn't finish it. I thought I might puke and I don't really dislike Jeter. "The best player in baseball for 10 straight years" ??? LOL It could pass for an Onion parody with very little revision. Reilly needs to hang em up.

Oh wow.

"He was ours for 20 years, but he's yours now, and I just wanted you to know how lucky you are."

Satire is as satire does.

That was brilliant!

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Offensively Jeter is the best shortstop in the last 100 years. Honus Wagner, I'd take over Jeter from an all-time perspective. I don't know why people give him so much hate. He's plays the game the right way. And is one of the best of all time.

He is not even the best offensive shortstop career on his team...

Alex Rodriguez is the best offensive SS of the century...

Jeter is certainly top 10 probably top 5 offensive SS of all time... and he is certainly better offensively that Cal ripken... But how does his defense hurt his overall rankings on the greatest SS list...

 

[steveringo]

He is not even the best offensive shortstop career on his team...

Alex Rodriguez is the best offensive SS of the century...

Jeter is certainly top 10 probably top 5 offensive SS of all time... and he is certainly better offensively that Cal ripken... But how does his defense hurt his overall rankings on the greatest SS list...

Thanks for posting that. It would have looked bad coming from a Sox fan....

Maybe top five. But just to be considered with Wagner, Vaughn, Arod, Banks, Cronin, Davis, etc. is a great accomplishment... It is too bad that he is mostly considererd a great just because he played for a long time... (not that there is anything wrong with that.)

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Thanks for posting that. It would have looked bad coming from a Sox fan....

Maybe top five. But just to be considered with Wagner, Vaughn, Arod, Banks, Cronin, Davis, etc. is a great accomplishment... It is too bad that he is mostly considererd a great just because he played for a long time... (not that there is anything wrong with that.)

I think I would rank Jeter 3rd in the all time Offensive SS...

His OBP is 7th overall of qualified SS
his OPS is also 7th

But he played significantly more games than half of those 7... in fact Nomar Garciapara is 2nd in OPS...

I have him better than ernie banks, because even though banks hit 500+ HRs, he only had a .330 OBP, and did not steal bases, and only had a OPS of .005 better than Jeter... that is just not good enough...

Vaughan and Cronin just didn't play long enough to compare to jeter, and even though they had higher OBP and OPS it was not significant, and their ratios of HR and SBs are not any better or worse than Jeters... So jeter gets it over them for longevity alone...

 

[ericd7633]

He is not even the best offensive shortstop career on his team...

Alex Rodriguez is the best offensive SS of the century...

Jeter is certainly top 10 probably top 5 offensive SS of all time... and he is certainly better offensively that Cal ripken... But how does his defense hurt his overall rankings on the greatest SS list...

Well yeah if you're going to include A-Rod as a SS, Jeter isn't better offensively than him. But when his career is all said and done he'll have played more games as a 3B than a SS. I'm not debating whether A-Rod is better offensively b/c he definitely is, but under what position?

 

[Tai Chi≈Surfing]

Yikes !!
3 pages and nearly 50 posts in, and until now, no mention of Jimmy Rollins, or Bert Campaneris??

 

[Lemon Harang Pie]

Thanks for posting that. It would have looked bad coming from a Sox fan....

Maybe top five. But just to be considered with Wagner, Vaughn, Arod, Banks, Cronin, Davis, etc. is a great accomplishment... It is too bad that he is mostly considererd a great just because he played for a long time... (not that there is anything wrong with that.)

I think he's considered great because he hit really well for a long time.

 

[obxyankeefan]

Just curious as to how everyone would rank all time SS - specifically Derek Jeter (since he is a popular subject this season).... Jeter will certainly make the HOF, but where does he rank among the all time greats?.... I've seen some lists that put him in the top five, and some that have him outside the top ten....

This is a list of SS with more than 10 years PT and an annual average BR WAR of 3.0 or greater:

Honus Wagner HOF
Alex Rodriguez
Arky Vaughan HOF
Cal Ripken HOF
George Davis HOF
Lou Boudreau HOF
Pee Wee Reese HOF
Ozzie Smith HOF
Robin Yount HOF
Joe Sewell HOF
Luke Appling HOF
Barry Larkin HOF
Jack Glasscock
Art Fletcher
Derek Jeter
Bill Dahlen
Ernie Banks HOF
Joe Tinker HOF
Alan Trammell
Joe Cronin HOF
Nomar Garciaparra
Phil Rizzuto HOF
Luis Aparicio HOF
Al Dark
Dave Bancroft HOF
Vern Stephens
Rafael Furcal
Rico Petrocelli

Apologies to the greats that missed the cut. Feel free to add, if they make your top ten.

ARod
Wagner
Ripken
Jeter
Yount
Banks
Vizquel
George Davis
Appling
Dahlen
Aparicio
Larkin
Cronin
Ozzie
Trammell
Reese
Sewell
Vaughan
Stephens
Dark
Garciaparra
Bancroft
Furcal
Glasscock
Boudreau
Tinker
Rizzuto
Petrocelli
Hanley Ramirez
Art Fletcher


I used your list and Added Vizquel and Hanley. The formula I made up on the spot is too heavy towards Longivity.

 

[navamind]

And how could we forget the great Matt Bush?

 

[CSD]

Jeter has never been great at playing shortstop. There isn't a single year where he's played that position and been anything near great.

He had made up for his defensive mediocrity with a very consistent bat, though.

I gave you a -1.

Defensive mediocrity? Are you kidding me!?

I've been watching Jeter play since 1996 and he's been consistent and Mr. Reliable with his glove. From turning DP's to jumping in the air like Michael Jordan, the guy has done it all. Even jump into the stands to make a catch and come up bruised and bloody.

His range has decreased now that's he older and slower, but in years past his play on the field has been very good, borderline great. It really seems like you just don't like Jeter and can't give him credit where it's due.

Rafael Furcal and Cal Ripken? Puhlease.

Ripken is without a doubt a top 10 SS. I think the air in So Cal is getting to you.

Honus Wagner HOF
Alex Rodriguez
Arky Vaughan HOF
Cal Ripken HOF
George Davis HOF
Lou Boudreau HOF
Pee Wee Reese HOF
Ozzie Smith HOF
Robin Yount HOF
Joe Sewell HOF
Luke Appling HOF
Barry Larkin HOF
Jack Glasscock
Art Fletcher
Bill Dahlen
Ernie Banks HOF
Joe Tinker HOF
Alan Trammell
Joe Cronin HOF
Nomar Garciaparra
Phil Rizzuto HOF
Luis Aparicio HOF
Al Dark
Dave Bancroft HOF
Vern Stephens
Rafael Furcal
Rico Petrocelli

























Derek Jeter

You are clearly an obnoxious asshole with nothing constructive to add in these discussions. Are you 15 years old? You lack maturity.

Aside from all the absurd hype that Cal brought MLB when it needed it the most, he wasn't a top 10 all-time SS. I'd take Rafael Furcal over him.

Cal is leaps and bounds better than Furcal. This isn't even discussion worthy.

How many MVP's has Furcal won?

 

[cezero]

I gave you a -1.

Defensive mediocrity? Are you kidding me!?

yes, which is a fact.

fire up that lucky finger to downvote me again, gurl.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

yes, which is a fact.

fire up that lucky finger to downvote me again, gurl.

i am not a war person, but not sure how else to statistically judge Defense... Derek Jeter is below mediocre under WAR... he has a career -9.2 and has only had a WAR of a positive number 3 times and had a dWAR of zero once...


So it is clear that he was not a good defensive player(even with his golden gloves)... But offensively i would certainly rank him as the 3rd best SS in history, only behind Honus Wagner and Alex Rodriguez...

 

[CSD]

i am not a war person, but not sure how else to statistically judge Defense... Derek Jeter is below mediocre under WAR... he has a career -9.2 and has only had a WAR of a positive number 3 times and had a dWAR of zero once...


So it is clear that he was not a good defensive player(even with his golden gloves)... But offensively i would certainly rank him as the 3rd best SS in history, only behind Honus Wagner and Alex Rodriguez...

If Derek is so bad on defense, how come the Yankees didn't remove him from SS and use him as a DH?

How on God's green Earth did Derek earn 5 gold gloves?

2009 and '10, Derek led the AL with the best fielding %.

1998, '99, '04, '05, '06, '08, Derek finished in top 5 fielding % among all AL SS.

But yet, all I read on here is how bad Derek is at SS.

 

[Lions=TeHsUcKs]

Derek was bad going to his left.. He had mediocre range and an average arm.. He is basically Johnny Peralta defensively, had a good glove but nothing else.. Dude was overrated at SS..

 

[navamind]

Fielding percentage is a terrible stat. You can have a high fielding percentage and not get to many balls, you know.

Not that the newer defensive metrics are without their flaws, but I have a lot more faith in them than fielding percentage/range factor/etc.

 

[navamind]

Gold Gloves are also very questionable. Do you really think Rafael Palmeiro should have won one playing only 28 games at 1B? Adam Jones has three Gold Gloves and he plays a pretty crappy CF. Michael Young won one for chrissake. For years, Chase Utley rated among the best defensive 2B in the league, and he never won one.

Voters love to jizz themselves over flashy plays. Ever consider that some of those flashy plays would be much easier outs for other fielders? And Jeter's "dive"? Just about any shortstop can make that play no problem.

Fangraphs rates Jeter at -149 DRS, -143 plus/minus, and -69.8 UZR. And keep in mind DRS and plus/minus only go back to 2003, while UZR goes back to 2002. BB-Ref, which uses Total Zone/DRS, rates him at -236 runs for his career.

 

[cezero]

Gold Gloves are also very questionable...

gold gloves are a tremendous joke of an award that's ostensibly supposed to reward defensive play

the fielding bible awards are much better, overall, for rewarding truly great defensive play

 

[navamind]

gold gloves are a tremendous joke of an award that's ostensibly supposed to reward defensive play

the fielding bible awards are much better, overall, for rewarding truly great defensive play

Agreed.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

If Derek is so bad on defense, how come the Yankees didn't remove him from SS and use him as a DH?

How on God's green Earth did Derek earn 5 gold gloves?

2009 and '10, Derek led the AL with the best fielding %.

1998, '99, '04, '05, '06, '08, Derek finished in top 5 fielding % among all AL SS.

But yet, all I read on here is how bad Derek is at SS.

I get what you are saying, the problem is that there is no great way to measure defense... All advanced statistics show Jeter has always been at best an average defensive SS... And statistics are not bias to fandom...

The question is not whether he was good or not at defense, the question is how does his defense hurt his overall value?? and that question i have no clue how to answer...
Like i said, i think he is the 3rd best offensive SS, but his defense might take him out of the top 5 overall...