Active hall of famers

[MilkSpiller22]

maybe instead of # of seasons better than their averages I should do # of seasons better than the MLB average... But I feel like that is telling less for the players significantly better than league average..

 

[StanMarsh51]

like i said, the word ignore was definitely wrong... I am really into lineup structure... When we talk about HOFers, one of the first things i do is ask where that players STATISTICS ideally put him in an ideal lineup...

Beltran i would say would be a # 5 hitter... then i compare him with other middle of the lineup guys, Speed is the LAST skill i care about for the middle of the lineup...

The problem with looking at it from a lineup structure is that it can underrate well rounded players (ie - the jack of all trades, master of none types). I mean, if Beltran dominated in one thing (ie - OBP or steals or power) but wasn't nearly as good in the other parts of his game, he might not be a better player but he would be a better fit for a particular spot in the lineup.,

 

[MilkSpiller22]

The problem with looking at it from a lineup structure is that it can underrate well rounded players (ie - the jack of all trades, master of none types). I mean, if Beltran dominated in one thing (ie - OBP or steals or power) but wasn't nearly as good in the other parts of his game, he might not be a better player but he would be a better fit for a particular spot in the lineup.,

But doesn't that equate to a better player?? At least a better hitter...

 

[StanMarsh51]

But doesn't that equate to a better player?? At least a better hitter...

Not necessarily...

I mean, I don't think Dee Gordon had a better 2015 than someone like AJ Pollock because Gordon had a prototypical leadoff hitter year while Pollock was well rounded to the point where he could potentially hit in numerous slots.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Not necessarily...

I mean, I don't think Dee Gordon had a better 2015 than someone like AJ Pollock because Gordon had a prototypical leadoff hitter year while Pollock was well rounded to the point where he could potentially hit in numerous slots.

Bad example, Pollock played more games, had a better OBP(which is the most important stat for a lead off), and still only stole 19 less bases...

 

[MiamiVice]

Pujols- absolute lock...

Arod- Will be a lock if and when they allow steroid players in

Ichiro- only a lock because he is Japanese

Beltre- Arguably the best defensive 3B of all time, has enough good offensive seasons to be a lock.

Miggy- not quite a lock yet IMO, but very close... Should make the HOF though

those are the only 4 offensive players I think will make the Hof...

Outside chances for Joey Votto, Joe Mauer, Yadier Molina

On pace- Trout, Posey, Harper, McCutchen, Goldshmidt

No chance- David Ortiz- Honestly, I don't get why people think he deserves it... You realize he only has 4 seasons of an OPS over 1000... and one of those 4 seasons he played less than 100 games... And He was never better than 3rd in slugging percentage... For someone who ONLY played offense, he should have better offensive numbers...

as for pitchers

Kershaw is a lock
Felix- will probably get in
Joe Nathan and Papelbon are very close wont be surprised if either make it

There is absolutely no way that Miggy Cabrera would not be in the HOF if he decided to retire tomorrow... There is absolutely NO WAY. There is no argument that could be made against him. You can't even make the claim that he is not a good defender anymore.. because as a first baseman he has been a finalist for golden glove every year he played the position. Seriously.. saying he is not quite a lock is hilarious.

 

[StanMarsh51]

Bad example, Pollock played more games, had a better OBP(which is the most important stat for a lead off), and still only stole 19 less bases...

But for a lot of years in Beltran's career, he had a better OBP than many leadoff hitters and stole a good amount of bases (6 times stole 25+, including 4x with 30+).


Just taking a season like Beltran's 2003 when he hit 26 HR and stole 40 bases....he had a .389 OBP that year, and by comparison, no leadoff hitter that year with 300 plate appearances had an OBP better than .374

So he was getting on base more than leadoff hitters, while hitting for power and steal a lot of bases....


So a season like Beltran's 2003 is a similar case to Pollock's 2015..

 

[MilkSpiller22]

There is absolutely no way that Miggy Cabrera would not be in the HOF if he decided to retire tomorrow... There is absolutely NO WAY. There is no argument that could be made against him. You can't even make the claim that he is not a good defender anymore.. because as a first baseman he has been a finalist for golden glove every year he played the position. Seriously.. saying he is not quite a lock is hilarious.

you do realize he only played for 13 seasons, and for a power hitter to only have 3 seasons with OPS over 1000, is something that MANY power hitters have done... Nobody is saying he is not great... I just don't think he is a shoe in YET...

 

[MilkSpiller22]

But for a lot of years in Beltran's career, he had a better OBP than many leadoff hitters and stole a good amount of bases (6 times stole 25+, including 4x with 30+).


Just taking a season like Beltran's 2003 when he hit 26 HR and stole 40 bases....he had a .389 OBP that year, and by comparison, no leadoff hitter that year with 300 plate appearances had an OBP better than .374

So he was getting on base more than leadoff hitters, while hitting for power and steal a lot of bases....


So it's kind of a similar case to Pollock..

But not all lead off men are HOFers... only the great ones... I really think this argument is going weird, because I do think he is a borderline guy... Just not sure which border I lean on...

 

[MiamiVice]

you do realize he only played for 13 seasons, and for a power hitter to only have 3 seasons with OPS over 1000, is something that MANY power hitters have done... Nobody is saying he is not great... I just don't think he is a shoe in YET...

lol... the guy has a career batting average of .321.. he isn't just a power hitter... for gods sakes.. he has led the league in BA more times than he has HR. The fact he won the triple crown is just icing on the cake. Miggy is the most HOF qualified player out of any active player not named Pujols.. Its not even a question. If you think he wouldn't be voted in 1st ballot if he retired tomorrow.. you are a moron.

 

[MiamiVice]

Miggy Cabrera is on pace to be break baseball's all time record for RBI, be top 10 all time in HR and Hits. He already ranks in the top 150 in hits.. and he only played in 13 seasons... by the end of next year he will probably be in the top 100... He is 62nd in RBI.. and will probably be top 50 by the end of next year... He is 52nd in career HR.. and will be some where around 40th by the end of next year... Take a look at the players that rank ahead of him... see how many are in the HOF.... and see how many seasons it took for them to get to those stats...

 

[StanMarsh51]

But not all lead off men are HOFers... only the great ones... I really think this argument is going weird, because I do think he is a borderline guy... Just not sure which border I lean on...

Ok, but the fact that his performance was better/comparable to many top tier #1, 2, 3 hitters in numerous seasons speaks volumes to how good all-around he was throughout his career, even if he wasn't the 'prototypical' at any one of those batting slots. He wasn't prototypical in any slot simply because he was good at many things offensively.

Just looking at his seasons, there's probably a good 6-8 seasons in his career where he'd be among the best in at least one of the first three batting slots.

 

[da55bums]

There is absolutely no way that Miggy Cabrera would not be in the HOF if he decided to retire tomorrow... There is absolutely NO WAY. There is no argument that could be made against him. You can't even make the claim that he is not a good defender anymore.. because as a first baseman he has been a finalist for golden glove every year he played the position. Seriously.. saying he is not quite a lock is hilarious.

How many years has Miguel Cabrera been a gold glove finalist at 1b?

He has played 6 yrs now as a 1b, I only could find 1 season 2014 where he was listed as a finalist. Miggy is practically a shoe in HOFer without having to make up stats.

 

[calsnowskier]

If Miggy were to retire tomorrow, I think he is in. I am not sure that he will be remembered as an elite HOFer 20 years from now, but I think he will be in.

Pujols, I think, is already an elite HOFer.

 

[The Derski]

How can you list Trout and Harper without listing Posey?

Or Goldschmidt

 

[MiamiVice]

If Miggy were to retire tomorrow, I think he is in. I am not sure that he will be remembered as an elite HOFer 20 years from now, but I think he will be in.

Pujols, I think, is already an elite HOFer.

How can someone say that Miggy won't be remembered as an elite HOFer 20 years from now.. the guy could easily end up top 10 in every major statistical category.. I mean seriously...

 

[calsnowskier]

How can someone say that Miggy won't be remembered as an elite HOFer 20 years from now.. the guy could easily end up top 10 in every major statistical category.. I mean seriously...

Please re-read my post.

 

[obxyankeefan]

How can someone say that Miggy won't be remembered as an elite HOFer 20 years from now.. the guy could easily end up top 10 in every major statistical category.. I mean seriously...

If Miggy retires tomorrow, is he top ten in every major category? That is what Cal was saying.

Miggy is one of the best Tigers to ever play the game, but we still have to see how he finishes his career before we anoint him one of the best ever.

 

[calsnowskier]

Or Goldschmidt

Please look at Goldschmidt's resume.

Now look at Trout's.

Back to Goldschmidt's.

Now looks at Harper's resume.

And back to Goldschmidt's.

What's this? Posey's resume. Look at this.

And finally back to Goldschmidt's resume.



Are you going to stand behind your inclusion of Goldy in the class of Posey, Trout and Harper RIGHT NOW?

 

[Mondo Jay]

Strictly speaking about postseason prowess, Pablo Sandoval is pretty amazing. (not a HOFer, but the thread sort of turned into "best post season players ever". He is right there with about 40 games or so.

Most I have in mind for HOF have been mentioned. One young guy on a HOF path could be A Simmons. His defensive metrics are through the roof and he is the best defensive SS I have ever seen (including Ozzie Smith). It seems the writers and baseball in general are starting to appreciate defense more and more. He has a long way to go, but his glove could be Hall worthy when he is done.