Active hall of famers

[navamind]

Joey Votto's numbers are off the charts.

Votto's got a pretty strong case. Since 2009, Votto's been top 5 in the NL in OPS+ save for 2012 and 2014 (he would have been top 5 in 2012, but he didn't have enough ABs to qualify and 2014 was an injury-plagued down year). His .428 OBP is the highest among active players (Trout's 2nd at .410) and ranks 12th all-time. His 158 OPS+ currently has him tied with Greenberg and Mize for 16th all-time and the only active player with a higher OPS+ is Trout (172).

Could make a case for Votto as the NL's MVP, but I'd be shocked if he won it given how bad the Reds were. Not to mention Stanton's flashier power numbers will make writers jizz themselves.

 

[JohnU]

Votto's got a pretty strong case. Since 2009, Votto's been top 5 in the NL in OPS+ save for 2012 and 2014 (he would have been top 5 in 2012, but he didn't have enough ABs to qualify and 2014 was an injury-plagued down year). His .428 OBP is the highest among active players (Trout's 2nd at .410) and ranks 12th all-time. His 158 OPS+ currently has him tied with Greenberg and Mize for 16th all-time and the only active player with a higher OPS+ is Trout (172).

Could make a case for Votto as the NL's MVP, but I'd be shocked if he won it given how bad the Reds were. Not to mention Stanton's flashier power numbers will make writers jizz themselves.

Even though Stanton's on a clunker club, if he hits 60, he's a lock ... being the 3rd guy ever to hit that many who isn't in the PEDs era. Though it isn't illegal for a pitcher (Kershaw) to win the MVP, but he won't.
As a fan, I only follow the players. The voters have criteria they aren't sharing. Is OBP a sexy enough stat now?
Short list, and I'd see Votto in the top 5, but not the top 3.
Votto to the Hall is based on the respect he gets around the league for his attitude. He will play his whole career in Cincy, which isn't something that's underappreciated if you look at the guys who are in there.

 

[navamind]

Even though Stanton's on a clunker club, if he hits 60, he's a lock ... being the 3rd guy ever to hit that many who isn't in the PEDs era. Though it isn't illegal for a pitcher (Kershaw) to win the MVP, but he won't.
As a fan, I only follow the players. The voters have criteria they aren't sharing. Is OBP a sexy enough stat now?
Short list, and I'd see Votto in the top 5, but not the top 3.
Votto to the Hall is based on the respect he gets around the league for his attitude. He will play his whole career in Cincy, which isn't something that's underappreciated if you look at the guys who are in there.

Votto did finish 3rd in the MVP voting in 2015 despite the Reds losing 98 games, and he ranked ahead of the likes of Arrieta/Greinke/Kershaw/McCutchen/Rizzo (all of whom played on playoff teams). I don't see why he can't finish top 3, especially with this year's NL MVP race being less impressive. Votto's .459 OBP was 2nd only to Harper's .460. So yeah, I'd say the voters put some weight into OBP.

I expect Stanton to win, but I'm not convinced he's had a better season. Votto doesn't have the power numbers Stanton has, but he also has 76 points of OBP on Stanton. That's huge. Votto's wOBA and wRC+ are higher than Stanton's. I really don't think there's a clear cut answer to who should win, there's a few other guys you could make a good case for.

Major League Leaderboards » 2017 » Batters » Dashboard | FanGraphs Baseball

 

[Sir Robin Of Camelot]

Anyone said Adrian Beltre yet?

Not nearly enough.

 

[JohnU]

My H of F short list without attempting to justify:

Ichiro
Trout
Beltre
Beltran
Miguel Cabrera
Bryce Harper
Votto
Altuve????
Teixiera (through 2016)
McCutchen

Pitchers are less automatic because the criteria seems to be changing a lot
Guys trending in that direction or have solid career resumes

Kershaw
Greinke ????
Wainwright
Lester
Kluber

 

[soxfan1468927]

My H of F short list without attempting to justify:

Ichiro
Trout
Beltre
Beltran
Miguel Cabrera
Bryce Harper
Votto
Altuve????
Teixiera (through 2016)
McCutchen

Pitchers are less automatic because the criteria seems to be changing a lot
Guys trending in that direction or have solid career resumes

Kershaw
Greinke ????
Wainwright
Lester
Kluber

No to the bold and Lester I seriously doubt

 

[soxfan1468927]

My H of F short list without attempting to justify:

Ichiro
Trout
Beltre
Beltran
Miguel Cabrera
Bryce Harper
Votto
Altuve????
Teixiera (through 2016)
McCutchen

Pitchers are less automatic because the criteria seems to be changing a lot
Guys trending in that direction or have solid career resumes

Kershaw
Greinke ????
Wainwright
Lester
Kluber

And you're missing Pujols. I would also add Utley and Cano as possibles

 

[JohnU]

And you're missing Pujols. I would also add Utley and Cano as possibles

Yeah, Pujols ... automatic. I did the list in my head, stopped at Trout!

Utley I think is an outside-the-lines candidate. His earlier years in Philly, he was a beast. I guess I'd add Cano,
Could probably add Molina to the list.
Strange that we see so many who qualify and so few who actually make it.

 

[soxfan1468927]

Yeah, Pujols ... automatic. I did the list in my head, stopped at Trout!

Utley I think is an outside-the-lines candidate. His earlier years in Philly, he was a beast. I guess I'd add Cano,
Could probably add Molina to the list.
Strange that we see so many who qualify and so few who actually make it.

Well I think your list has a lot of guys who wouldn't and shouldn't be in if they retired today. You look back 40 years and there were 33 active HOFers

 

[JohnU]

Well I think your list has a lot of guys who wouldn't and shouldn't be in if they retired today. You look back 40 years and there were 33 active HOFers

I think my first sentence said I didn't intend to justify anything. I have no idea what criteria got PeeWee Reese into the Hall and has kept Lance Berkman out. These are the top players in the MLB as of now. Maybe they will all do a Doc Gooden on us. The best player in the league is probably getting to throw BP to the Sept. callups.
I also don't intend to go looking for advanced metrics to support my claim that Wainwright might actually be considered a H of F pitcher in 10 years. Hell, Aroldis Chapman is the best pitcher I ever saw for one inning.

 

[soxfan1468927]

I think my first sentence said I didn't intend to justify anything. I have no idea what criteria got PeeWee Reese into the Hall and has kept Lance Berkman out. These are the top players in the MLB as of now. Maybe they will all do a Doc Gooden on us. The best player in the league is probably getting to throw BP to the Sept. callups.
I also don't intend to go looking for advanced metrics to support my claim that Wainwright might actually be considered a H of F pitcher in 10 years. Hell, Aroldis Chapman is the best pitcher I ever saw for one inning.

Pee Wee Reese was one of the best shortstops in baseball for a decade, if not THE best. He was top 10 in MVP voting 8 times and made 10 All Star games. For a shortstop in his time, to have the OBP that he did while being a threat on the basepaths (while also losing 3 prime years due to war), I'm not surprised nor against the fact that he is in.

And Berkman hasn't even been voted on yet, although I don't think he should be in.

I'm not sure why McCutchen would be on the list of the best players in MLB right now. And what metric at all would be used to argue Wainwright as a possible HOFer? He has 4 great seasons.

And my point was in response to you saying that we see so many that qualify and so few that make it. A lot of those guys will make it, it's just that they are in the beginning of their possible HOF career.

 

[StanMarsh51]

I think my first sentence said I didn't intend to justify anything. I have no idea what criteria got PeeWee Reese into the Hall and has kept Lance Berkman out. These are the top players in the MLB as of now. Maybe they will all do a Doc Gooden on us. The best player in the league is probably getting to throw BP to the Sept. callups.
I also don't intend to go looking for advanced metrics to support my claim that Wainwright might actually be considered a H of F pitcher in 10 years. Hell, Aroldis Chapman is the best pitcher I ever saw for one inning.

For his day, Reese was a top player....

8x in top 10 in WAR
4x in top 10 in OBP
8x in top 10 in runs
2x in top 10 in hits
12x in top 10 in steals

And he did this as a good defensive SS

 

[JohnU]

For his day, Reese was a top player....

8x in top 10 in WAR
4x in top 10 in OBP
8x in top 10 in runs
2x in top 10 in hits
12x in top 10 in steals

And he did this as a good defensive SS

Well it was an example and I really wasn't interested in Reese specifically.

 

[navamind]

Kershaw has 10 seasons. I think we can call him a lock now. The dude has a career 2.35 ERA. The only pitcher with a better ERA+ was Mariano, and he was a relief pitcher. He's a starting pitcher with a career 1.00 WHIP. He's in.