2013 Off Season

[Todd1a]

Niskanen for a draft pick is fine with me but I would love to see Engelland packaged also, heck even for a bag of pucks. That way there would be room to give the likes of Dumoulin, Ruopp, Pouliot, Harrison and Maata a chance to play. It is back to an 82 game season there is time for at least one of them to figure it out.

There will always be players of Engelland's caliber available all season long there is no reason to start the season with his cap hit.

Hope the lightning call the penguins for Niskanen we could use a defenseman is he a top 4 guy ?

 

[DoobeeDoobeeDoo]

Hope the lightning call the penguins for Niskanen we could use a defenseman is he a top 4 guy ?

Yeah, someone should get a good deal on Nisky, I think he's got a great shot from the point and we're probably willing to let him go for next to nothing, simply to cut salary.

 

[element1286]

Hope the lightning call the penguins for Niskanen we could use a defenseman is he a top 4 guy ?

Eh, possibly. I think he play top 4 minutes if you include the powerplay, which he is a decent option on the second unit. But he is prone to defensive zone breakdowns, and isn't very physical.

Point being, if you can use him on the powerplay, and with a solid defensive guy, he is a good option at his price.

 

[element1286]

I know the team has struggled in the playoffs in recent years ... but against Boston, 3 of 4 the games could've went either way... Pens just didn't have puck luck... Bennett nor Despres would've helped in that department... Sid, Malkin, Neal, Dupuis, Kunitz.. they had opportunities just no luck...

Remember, last year they rattled off the 2nd (or 3rd) longest winning streak in NHL HISTORY... you don't overhaul teams like that... Despres will be a starter and Bennett will be as well. Bortuzzo will see plenty of ice time... with Engelland get playing time against specific teams... even with an injury, Dumoulin (or whoever in WBS is deserving) will get more starts than Engelland....

The Pens will have Despres, Bennett, Bortuzzo, and an AHLer has the chance to capture a 3rd line winger position... that could be 4 out of 18 skaters that is part of the youth movement... that is like 22% of the roster... not too mention Neal, Sid, Geno, Sutter are 27 or younger.... the Pens will have a nice balance of old, prime and youth....

Again, you don't blow up a team that produced the 2nd/3rd longest winning streak in NHL history... you go with that squad... IMHO.

Shero has done an excellent job...

I'll believe that when I see it.

Regular season winning is nice, but San Jose and Washington also won a lot during the regular season, and I don't want to be them.

Also, it isn't that they are losing in the playoffs, it's the embarrassing losses. Up 3-1 to a bad Montreal team, lose. Up 3-1 to Tampa, lose. Philly debacle being down 3-0, and giving up a historic amount of goals, lose. Scoring two goals the entire Boston series, swept.

I can accept the loses, I can't accept the manner of them. If this fails, it's on Shero as much as Disco.

 

[JustAsking]

Honestly, I don't care what happened against the Habs, TB, or Flyers... Boston, yeah they got swept.. but they weren't outplayed (minus game 2)... I think the pressure got to the core (Sid,Geno,Nealer, etc), players no one has suggested moving away from (well, I waivered about Geno, still think his hockey IQ is low for an elite talent).

But I agree, this is Shero's team even more than it is Dan's team.

Sutter and Fleury need to step up this year... team toughness is also a concern of mine.

 

[element1286]

I agree, the stars have dropped the ball, and I was on board with trading Letang, who was as terrible as anyone outside Fleury this past playoffs.

But I don't even know what the team philosophy is anymore. They aren't a young/quick team like Islanders, they aren't a high IQ team like Detroit, they aren't a tough/physical team like Boston.

What are the Pens? Besides, having the best center depth in the league, which isn't an on ice attribute, I don't know who they are anymore.

 

[JustAsking]

Pens Rookie Camp set to open: Penguins.nhl.com for more details

It'll be a good first step to re-evaluate the development. Jarry and Hartzell will attend as well as Harrington, Maatta, Pouliot, and Dumoulin.

This is an important camp for Dumoulin, as he will have the opportunity to join the big squad... if he impresses, starting with this rookie camp.

Jarry of course will go back to Jrs.

Pouliot (19) and Maatta (18) also could be sent back to Jrs for further development. I would have no problem if management decides on this course. They would get more TOI (PP and PK) and their development may be better for it... but, on the other hand, playing against more talented players in the AHL would help their development as well.... what do you folks think?

Harrington will turn pro, his rookie season with WBS...

More details will come as the camp day approaches.

 

[mtm166]

To me Engelland is the perfect #7, he is the cheapest player on the team, and he is never going to be better than he is right now.

Except I don't trust HCDB not to play him ahead of Despres so he has to go.

I agree, the stars have dropped the ball, and I was on board with trading Letang, who was as terrible as anyone outside Fleury this past playoffs.

But I don't even know what the team philosophy is anymore. They aren't a young/quick team like Islanders, they aren't a high IQ team like Detroit, they aren't a tough/physical team like Boston.

What are the Pens? Besides, having the best center depth in the league, which isn't an on ice attribute, I don't know who they are anymore.

Good question...Teams without a real identity to rely on, get exposed in the playoffs, and that's exactly what's happened. Watching the Pens trying to chip in and establish a cycle this past playoffs was sad. It just wasn't there anymore and/or the will to do it was no longer there. Sure, we'll probably make the playoffs, but if you ask me, we won't really know anything about this team until next April. I just don't get the feeling that anything will be different.

 

[JustAsking]

I really do not understand where most of this concern is coming from... who have the Penguins lost that was a staple on the team last year... Cooke and Kennedy... oh the ship is sinking...

Just to remind folks... the Penguins were the highest scoring team in the league last year... they were the 2nd team in the league in regards to point, and they rattled off the 2nd/3rd (I forget) longest winning streak in NHL HISTORY.... oh the horror...

The Pens are fine, every team has concerns, and the Pens are no different... but come on, too many Debbie Downers out there... Cooke and TK, you really think they helped the Pens achieve anything I mentioned above...

 

[thedddd]

I really do not understand where most of this concern is coming from... who have the Penguins lost that was a staple on the team last year... Cooke and Kennedy... oh the ship is sinking...

Just to remind folks... the Penguins were the highest scoring team in the league last year... they were the 2nd team in the league in regards to point, and they rattled off the 2nd/3rd (I forget) longest winning streak in NHL HISTORY.... oh the horror...

The Pens are fine, every team has concerns, and the Pens are no different... but come on, too many Debbie Downers out there... Cooke and TK, you really think they helped the Pens achieve anything I mentioned above...

Don't think it is much being a downer as more of knowing the history of DB will he play guys like Bennett and top 6 minutes vs Jokinen, Play Despres top 4 minutes or scratch him for Engelland... It is more of a wait and see but players such as Despres, Bennett and like you said (which would be great if he impresses) Dumoulin getting real playing time.

 

[JustAsking]

Don't think it is much being a downer as more of knowing the history of DB will he play guys like Bennett and top 6 minutes vs Jokinen, Play Despres top 4 minutes or scratch him for Engelland... It is more of a wait and see but players such as Despres, Bennett and like you said (which would be great if he impresses) Dumoulin getting real playing time.

Those are important questions... but not really concerns for the team... and it all depends on how well they play... Bennett, Despres and Bortuzzo all will get playing time... I can see jokinen on the 2nd line and Bennett on the 3rd line (at times)... DB changes lines pretty regularly, even just for a faceoff (jokinen better than Malkin)... the only constants will be the top line (Sid gets his wingers), Neal and Malkin, and Sutter centering the 3rd line... the rest will depend on a variety variables... Dumoulin I think won't make the team out of camp (just based on number of dman, even when Nisky gets traded), but will be the first call-up when an injury occurs.. and I fully expect Engelland to get some starts... if Despres struggles it may be him watching the game in presser... or perhaps Bortuzzo... it all depends on how well the players progress.. and in Engelland's case, who the opponent is...

 

[element1286]

I really do not understand where most of this concern is coming from... who have the Penguins lost that was a staple on the team last year... Cooke and Kennedy... oh the ship is sinking...

Just to remind folks... the Penguins were the highest scoring team in the league last year... they were the 2nd team in the league in regards to point, and they rattled off the 2nd/3rd (I forget) longest winning streak in NHL HISTORY.... oh the horror...

The Pens are fine, every team has concerns, and the Pens are no different... but come on, too many Debbie Downers out there... Cooke and TK, you really think they helped the Pens achieve anything I mentioned above...

That is precisely the point nothing has changed. So there is no reason to think the Pens will suddenly wake up an won't be outclassed by a similar team or upset by a lower seed, as they have the past 4 years.

 

[element1286]

Good question...Teams without a real identity to rely on, get exposed in the playoffs, and that's exactly what's happened. Watching the Pens trying to chip in and establish a cycle this past playoffs was sad. It just wasn't there anymore and/or the will to do it was no longer there. Sure, we'll probably make the playoffs, but if you ask me, we won't really know anything about this team until next April. I just don't get the feeling that anything will be different.

Agreed, and again I don't care if they lose, but he manner that it has happened year after year is disheartening.

 

[thedddd]

Those are important questions... but not really concerns for the team... and it all depends on how well they play... Bennett, Despres and Bortuzzo all will get playing time... I can see jokinen on the 2nd line and Bennett on the 3rd line (at times)... DB changes lines pretty regularly, even just for a faceoff (jokinen better than Malkin)... the only constants will be the top line (Sid gets his wingers), Neal and Malkin, and Sutter centering the 3rd line... the rest will depend on a variety variables... Dumoulin I think won't make the team out of camp (just based on number of dman, even when Nisky gets traded), but will be the first call-up when an injury occurs.. and I fully expect Engelland to get some starts... if Despres struggles it may be him watching the game in presser... or perhaps Bortuzzo... it all depends on how well the players progress.. and in Engelland's case, who the opponent is...

Never said they were concerns for the team and yeah they will play based on performance. The issue is knowing the Head Coach it is pointing to status quo. Yeah they scored a ton, but like element and mtm stated how much of the same do we want to see where they look great in the regular season and stink up the joint come playoff time. This is nowhere near the Stanley cup team. Also the conference got harder just by the fact Detroit and a surging Columbus team got added with the Jets leaving.

 

[JustAsking]

The players win games... the coaches do not. Look to the captain, the talent, the leaders... they are the ones failing. Past playoffs performances other than this past year are meaningless to me, Sid and Geno were hurt for one, and Sid was hurt for the other two (or just coming back from injury)... this past year is the only one I will reflect on... if you finish first in your conference, that does not mean you automatically make it to the cup, therefore, you will be upset by a lower seed.... The Pens made it to the conference finals... only 4 teams do that... being swept does not sound good, but the Pens were only out played in one game... the highest scoring team failing to score a goal does not fall on the coach, it falls on your scoring leaders, your talent... IMO, if you don't like the status quo, you don't like the Pens top 6. They failed this year in the playoffs... not a system, not adjustments... the talent did. Personally, I wouldn't trade the Pens top 6 (or 5) for any else in the league. I may not agree with DB on how he plays prospects... but this year playoff failures fall complete on Sid and company. At first I was all for DB getting fired, but after a day, I reconsidered... like I said in the first post of this thread, I could go either way with him... because I realized it was the talent that failed.

Do you want to trade Sid? Geno (again, his hockey IQ is low IMO) and I was prepared for life without him? After FA day Kunitz and Dupuis are steals... Neal, to me is a PP specialist, maybe him?.... Again, a team that produced a crazy winning streak and being the highest scoring team in the league, failing to score is on the players... so what do you do? Playing rookies is not the answer... I say you do what Shero is doing, you don't overhaul a team like that.

 

[thedddd]

The players win games... the coaches do not. Look to the captain, the talent, the leaders... they are the ones failing. Past playoffs performances other than this past year are meaningless to me, Sid and Geno were hurt for one, and Sid was hurt for the other two (or just coming back from injury)... this past year is the only one I will reflect on... if you finish first in your conference, that does not mean you automatically make it to the cup, therefore, you will be upset by a lower seed.... The Pens made it to the conference finals... only 4 teams do that... being swept does not sound good, but the Pens were only out played in one game... the highest scoring team failing to score a goal does not fall on the coach, it falls on your scoring leaders, your talent... IMO, if you don't like the status quo, you don't like the Pens top 6. They failed this year in the playoffs... not a system, not adjustments... the talent did. Personally, I wouldn't trade the Pens top 6 (or 5) for any else in the league. I may not agree with DB on how he plays prospects... but this year playoff failures fall complete on Sid and company. At first I was all for DB getting fired, but after a day, I reconsidered... like I said in the first post of this thread, I could go either way with him... because I realized it was the talent that failed.

Do you want to trade Sid? Geno (again, his hockey IQ is low IMO) and I was prepared for life without him? After FA day Kunitz and Dupuis are steals... Neal, to me is a PP specialist, maybe him?.... Again, a team that produced a crazy winning streak and being the highest scoring team in the league, failing to score is on the players... so what do you do? Playing rookies is not the answer... I say you do what Shero is doing, you don't overhaul a team like that.

True but the coach makes the identity of the team. The bottom 6 right now is weak you can't win with 2 lines and a bunch of junk thrown together.

Well I wouldn't go and say they are steals Kunitz basically kept his same pay rate but Dupuis I think got over paid for a 3rd line forward that had a career year, but they had to. For two reasons: 1. it helps big time that you have the likes of Crosby wanting you on his line. 2. a team would have have paid him but not really that much more.

The reason i don't think they are steals is the fact they are mid 30's players on their last contacts who won't get any better and will start regressing before their contracts are up.

 

[element1286]

The players win games... the coaches do not. Look to the captain, the talent, the leaders... they are the ones failing.

And trading Kris Letang would have been a good first step to solve the Cap problem, the depth problem, and what to do with all these young defensmen, all while getting rid of the guy who performed worst based off expectations these past playoffs.

Past playoffs performances other than this past year are meaningless to me, Sid and Geno were hurt for one, and Sid was hurt for the other two (or just coming back from injury)... this past year is the only one I will reflect on...

You're missing the forest for the trees, but ok.

if you finish first in your conference, that does not mean you automatically make it to the cup, therefore, you will be upset by a lower seed.... The Pens made it to the conference finals... only 4 teams do that... being swept does not sound good, but the Pens were only out played in one game... the highest scoring team failing to score a goal does not fall on the coach, it falls on your scoring leaders, your talent...

Agree, but you can't fire all the players, and something has to change. The coach is the easiest to let go. And he is in no way blameless.

IMO, if you don't like the status quo, you don't like the Pens top 6.

I don't, and I would have no resigned Dupuis to that contract. Nor would have I given Kunitz and extension.

They failed this year in the playoffs... not a system, not adjustments... the talent did.

That may be true, but why do the Pens go from the highest scoring the team in the league, to completely shut down by the Bruins? If your only explanation is 'the players failed' you really aren't looking hard at it. If Ray Shero asks DB why did the team score two goals and get swept, do you think DB says 'the players failed' and if he did do you think Ray Shero accepts that as valid?

Personally, I wouldn't trade the Pens top 6 (or 5) for any else in the league. I may not agree with DB on how he plays prospects... but this year playoff failures fall complete on Sid and company. At first I was all for DB getting fired, but after a day, I reconsidered... like I said in the first post of this thread, I could go either way with him... because I realized it was the talent that failed.

Do you want to trade Sid? Geno (again, his hockey IQ is low IMO) and I was prepared for life without him? After FA day Kunitz and Dupuis are steals... Neal, to me is a PP specialist, maybe him?.... Again, a team that produced a crazy winning streak and being the highest scoring team in the league, failing to score is on the players... so what do you do? Playing rookies is not the answer... I say you do what Shero is doing, you don't overhaul a team like that.[/QUOTE]

Sid and Geno, no. Everyone else is trade-able. Young Pens team wins a cup with 90% of the key roster between 20 and 30. Now we are chocked full of guys in their mid to late 30's on 3-4 year deals.

 

[JustAsking]

Pens resign paul thompson and zach sill to one year, two way deals.

 

[DoobeeDoobeeDoo]

Pens resign paul thompson and zach sill to one year, two way deals.

I like Paul Thompson, wish he would get a chance in the NHL. We should give him a chance at a roster spot next season IMO.

 

[thedddd]

I like Paul Thompson, wish he would get a chance in the NHL. We should give him a chance at a roster spot next season IMO.

Glad they signed both. I agree about Thompson he might be a good top 9 forward that can score if needed. It will be interesting to see those two and Megna fight for a roster spot.