Randy Moss or Calvin Johnson?

[Rockinkuwait]

What part of "in their prime" is confusing to everyone?

Anywho, Megatron by a lot. Moss was a 1 trick pony and never had to deal with the triple teams CJ did. That fact alone should give you the answer. CJ also had horrible QBs for half his career and no run game ever.

Moss had the better career long term, but thats not the question.

Moss had MASSIVE coverage shifts, safeties back out 30 yards off the line providing zero run support when he was out there. Opening lots up underneath for the run and pass game. Calvin had to adjust a bit to the NFL. The had to adjust to Moss when he showed up. It was almost funny watching those games (big Cunnningham fan so I watched a lot of them). New team and at some point the safety would think 15 yards back was enough cushion and nope it wasn't. Took the league about 3 years to really adjust to Randy and realize his speed was truly that fast.

And saying CJ had no run game is exactly why CJ's teams threw the ball about 90 more times a season (in their primes, first 7 years) than Moss' team. I don't see how a coach calling a run does a favor to the receiver making plays. Moss never had a QB throw it 740 times. Despite that over his first 7 years (their physical primes) Moss had 200 fewer yards (less than 30 a season fewer) and 24 more TD's (3 fewer fumbles too).

Moss in his prime was the best deep threat the NFL ever saw. And the only WR I'd put up there with Rice/Hutson when it came to putting the ball in the end zone for points. 7 years into Moss' career he was 7th in receiving TD's all time (9 year career has Calvin at 22nd). Call that a 2 trick pony, like all Lawrence Taylor could do well was rush the QB and all Barry Sanders could do well was make guys miss. That's the tricks to have. Look at what WR's get paid, it's the ones with those tricks.

Calvin was more of the freak of nature and a great great receiver in his prime as passing offenses keep exploding. Better teammate sure. Elite prime yes. But Moss was the guy who you'd lose track of twice in a game and that'd be 14 points and the reason they won. Calvin while amazing didn't make you pay like that.


And I will say a big part of me when talking about the best of the best, the truly elite guys is rather than make reasons why a player didn't do something as well (his QB wasn't as good, his line wasn't as good, he played in scheme X) I tend to go with the guy that accomplished what the other didn't.

 

[Oldschool739]

Who do you take?

RM only talent wise though, if character was involved, I'd have to go with Megatron, but Randy was just unstoppable in his prime.....A total butt head, but great !!

 

[Old Lion]

Moss had MASSIVE coverage shifts, safeties back out 30 yards off the line providing zero run support when he was out there. Opening lots up underneath for the run and pass game. Calvin had to adjust a bit to the NFL. The had to adjust to Moss when he showed up. It was almost funny watching those games (big Cunnningham fan so I watched a lot of them). New team and at some point the safety would think 15 yards back was enough cushion and nope it wasn't. Took the league about 3 years to really adjust to Randy and realize his speed was truly that fast.

And saying CJ had no run game is exactly why CJ's teams threw the ball about 90 more times a season (in their primes, first 7 years) than Moss' team. I don't see how a coach calling a run does a favor to the receiver making plays. Moss never had a QB throw it 740 times. Despite that over his first 7 years (their physical primes) Moss had 200 fewer yards (less than 30 a season fewer) and 24 more TD's (3 fewer fumbles too).

Moss in his prime was the best deep threat the NFL ever saw. And the only WR I'd put up there with Rice/Hutson when it came to putting the ball in the end zone for points. 7 years into Moss' career he was 7th in receiving TD's all time (9 year career has Calvin at 22nd). Call that a 2 trick pony, like all Lawrence Taylor could do well was rush the QB and all Barry Sanders could do well was make guys miss. That's the tricks to have. Look at what WR's get paid, it's the ones with those tricks.

Calvin was more of the freak of nature and a great great receiver in his prime as passing offenses keep exploding. Better teammate sure. Elite prime yes. But Moss was the guy who you'd lose track of twice in a game and that'd be 14 points and the reason they won. Calvin while amazing didn't make you pay like that.


And I will say a big part of me when talking about the best of the best, the truly elite guys is rather than make reasons why a player didn't do something as well (his QB wasn't as good, his line wasn't as good, he played in scheme X) I tend to go with the guy that accomplished what the other didn't.

Because with no threat of a run, teams can drop 3 back to cover him. Never saw Randy or even Jerry Rice for that matter have to face that.

Lets see how well Randy would do with triple coverage and guys like John Kitna and Dan Orlovsky throwing him the ball. Thats also why the stats are irrelevant.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

Because with no threat of a run, teams can drop 3 back to cover him. Never saw Randy or even Jerry Rice for that matter have to face that.

Lets see how well Randy would do with triple coverage and guys like John Kitna and Dan Orlovsky throwing him the ball. Thats also why the stats are irrelevant.

Who know's how he would have done. Maybe better with a QB with a gun like Stafford. I always thought the one thing Kitna did well was throw catchable balls to his WR's.


Randy in just his 2nd year with a bad Cunningham and Jeff George had 1400 yards and 11 TD's. (3rd in rec yards, 2 TD's off the league lead).

Moss got 3 starts with Todd Bouman.

144 yards 1 TD
158 yards 1 TD
144 yards 2 TD's

2 starts with Gus Frerrotte.

172 yards 3 TD's
81 yards 2 TD's

few games with Brad Johnson

95 yards 2 TD's
89 yards 0 TD's

Had no idea what those would be. That is pretty insane.

I can't look at how Moss played with meh and bad QB's in those prime years and say he would have really suffered with Meh and bad QB's then instead.

 

[PnkPanther]

What part of "in their prime" is confusing to everyone?

Anywho, Megatron by a lot. Moss was a 1 trick pony and never had to deal with the triple teams CJ did. That fact alone should give you the answer. CJ also had horrible QBs for half his career and no run game ever.

Moss had the better career long term, but thats not the question.

Moss drew a lot of attention and forced one team to draft 3dbs

 

[PnkPanther]

Because with no threat of a run, teams can drop 3 back to cover him. Never saw Randy or even Jerry Rice for that matter have to face that.

Lets see how well Randy would do with triple coverage and guys like John Kitna and Dan Orlovsky throwing him the ball. Thats also why the stats are irrelevant.

Moss had spergon Wynn once

 

[Mebert]

I voted Moss. Calvin has dome drop issues, and he quit on the team long before he retired

 

[Taddy Mason]

There was a Randy Ratio, but no Calvin Quota. The dipshit coach tips the scales in favor of Moss. To say he didn't get attention when his coach said the plan is for him to get 40% of the targets...

 

[Davis_Mike]

Moss and this shouldn't even be a question.

Even using the strict standard of "prime years", you have to choose which prime years to use for Moss. He was so good that he had two prime segments in his career. Moss had seperate portions of his career where he scored 40+ TDs over a three year span, with different teams.

Megatron was great, but not Moss great, & will have trouble making the HoF due to his early retirement.

 

[broncosmitty]

Anyone that says Calvin, had better just be a Moss hater.

Cuz it ain't even close.

Randy, all day, ery fucking day.

 

[NinerSickness]

There's no QUESTION Calvin was better in his prime. He did it all, whereas Moss was just a deep threat.

Both were great, but Calvin was great at everything.

 

[broncosmitty]

Calvin got a shit ton of yards one year, on a horrible team that passed the ball like 70% of the Time.

I'm annoyed this is even a question. And that it wasn't asked by TPaul before he flamed out on tLionsBoard.

 

[NinerSickness]

Calvin got a shit ton of yards one year, on a horrible team that passed the ball like 70% of the Time.

I'm annoyed this is even a question. And that it wasn't asked by TPaul before he flamed out on tLionsBoard.

He was still about the best there was in every single aspect of playing WR. There wasn't a single weakness in Calvin's game.

Julio Jones was starting to come pretty close to those guys, though (before getting hurt). Dude s**t all over the Niners in the NFCCG in 2012, and that was a nasty defense.

 

[SeizeTheCarp]

I know it takes more than a QB and WR to win a Super Bowl, but Randy not winning a ring with the 18-1 Patriots tells me there's some bad ju-ju going on with Moss. Moss admitted to taking plays off while CJ was a lunch pail kinda guy. Give me CJ for the intangibles and the work ethic.

 

[SonnyCID]

I know it takes more than a QB and WR to win a Super Bowl, but Randy not winning a ring with the 18-1 Patriots tells me there's some bad ju-ju going on with Moss. Moss admitted to taking plays off while CJ was a lunch pail kinda guy. Give me CJ for the intangibles and the work ethic.

Take plays off? Moss took seasons off. Guy was a straight up liability when things weren't going well. Johnson on the other hand was dependable when he was on shitty teams, and he always was on shitty teams.

 

[SeizeTheCarp]

Take plays off? Moss took seasons off. Guy was a straight up liability when things weren't going well. Johnson on the other hand was dependable when he was on shitty teams, and he always was on shitty teams.

Good point. I remember comparing Moss to a kid playing Madden. Only with Moss there was no reset button when the season started sucking, so he just starting sulking and not putting forth any effort for the rest of the season. Sadly, the reason I forgot that is that he still seemed to torch the Packers every game.

 

[Scooby-Doo]

Between the 2, I take Moss.

However, I would take Larry Legend over both of them. Yea I'm a homer, but the majority of his career he had shit Qb"s throwing to him. Not to mention, he had one of the greatest playoff runs in NFL history. As good as he was in the regular season, he would elevate his game in the post season.

 

[NinerSickness]

However, I would take Larry Legend over both of them.

Larry's career isn't over. He's got a little more to prove to be in Moss' category, IMO.

 

[NinerSickness]

Megatron at his peak was TO minus the drops.

 

[Scooby-Doo]

Larry's career isn't over. He's got a little more to prove to be in Moss' category, IMO.

Yea. You're probibly right.

However if Fitz had the qb talent Moss had in his career, who knows.