Reds VS Cardinals Series Thread

[Kate Upton]

So that means we keep the hitting coach, get the same results and continue to wonder if we could have done something different. I get it ...

They should get somebody else, but it's not going to change the fact that Bruce, Frazier, Phillips, and Cozart all routinely swing at shit...and it also won't change the fact that Votto routinely lets hittable pitches go right by him.

It's too late to change the coach at this point in the season anyway.

Now this offseason? Yeah, there needs to be a change.

 

[Kate Upton]

Does Bryan Price get the blame because Leake and Ondrusek are serving up meatballs?

 

[JohnU]

YOU BRING YOUR FUCKING GAME WITH YOU.

Maybe we can all worship Ryan Ludwick.

fucking joke.

 

[JohnU]

THIS isn't about Bryan Price. That's the lame-ass comparison that everyone uses when we talk about Reds HITTING. If we were talking about the pitching, the conversation would not include Jacoby. These kinds of comparisons are, at best non sequitur.

 

[Kate Upton]

YOU BRING YOUR FUCKING GAME WITH YOU.

Maybe we can all worship Ryan Ludwick.

fucking joke.

Well at least Votto came up with that clutch 3 run HR Friday night to make it 12-3.

The Cards have better hitters than we do...period.

We don't need better coaches as much as we need better hitters.

And truth be told, it isn't the hitting that has lost them this series.

 

[Kate Upton]

THIS isn't about Bryan Price. That's the lame-ass comparison that everyone uses when we talk about Reds HITTING. If we were talking about the pitching, the conversation would not include Jacoby. These kinds of comparisons are, at best non sequitur.

Yeah, but when the Reds pitching is garbage, as it has been in this series, why don't we blame Bryan Price for it like we like to blame Jacoby when the Reds hitting is garbage?

The point is, blaming either for the terrible performance of the players they coach is well...pointless.

They can't throw the pitch or swing the bat for them. These guys are pros. They know how to hit and/or pitch. This isn't an instructional league they're playing in.

 

[JohnU]

Why yes, we have 2 hits ... that's an offense that you win divisional titles with.
You come to the stadium all locked and loaded, looked over the game film of a pitcher who is in your own division and has about 40 starts ... and you get 2 hits off him.

That's what I like about the Reds. That killer instinct.
Maybe we can trade for a left fielder.

 

[JohnU]

Yeah, but when the Reds pitching is garbage, as it has been in this series, why don't we blame Bryan Price for it like we like to blame Jacoby when the Reds hitting is garbage?

The point is, blaming either for the terrible performance of the players they coach is well...pointless.

They can't throw the pitch or swing the bat for them. These guys are pros. They know how to hit and/or pitch. This isn't an instructional league they're playing in.

Don't with this ... the coaches can't play for them. That's bullshit and it is a condescending lecture, vapid and pointless. It assumes I don't know anything. When a guy hasn't had a hit in 30 plate appearances, and he's doing the same thing every time, why in fuck do they have a coaching staff? To cheerlead?

I don't recall having a lot to say nice about Arroyo or Leake in this thread. I'd blame Price if they'd gone MOST of the season with ERA's in the 6's ... unlike our hitters who have a combined offense today of a bleeder and a mistake home run.

Not unlike MOST games. This didn't start last Friday.

The odds of the pitching being garbage is, lately, about 3 out of 10. The odds of the hitting being garbage pretty much predictable -- 7 out of 10.

 

[Kate Upton]

Don't with this ... the coaches can't play for them. That's bullshit and it is a condescending lecture, vapid and pointless. It assumes I don't know anything. When a guy hasn't had a hit in 30 plate appearances, and he's doing the same thing every time, why in fuck do they have a coaching staff? To cheerlead?

I don't recall having a lot to say nice about Arroyo or Leake in this thread. I'd blame Price if they'd gone MOST of the season with ERA's in the 6's ... unlike our hitters who have a combined offense today of a bleeder and a mistake home run.

Not unlike MOST games. This didn't start last Friday.

The odds of the pitching being garbage is, lately, about 3 out of 10. The odds of the hitting being garbage pretty much predictable -- 7 out of 10.

Yeah, but Leake was terrible last season, and Arroyo was terrible the year before. Is that Price's fault?

Why not just offer the Cards hitting coach a 5 year, $50 million contract in the offseason? You think we'll hit .340 with RISP and score 1000 runs?

I'm not arguing the fact that this offense stinks. What I am arguing is that a new hitting coach is going to be some magic potion that's going to turn Bruce into a disciplined hitter or Frazier into a batting champion.

You want a better offense? Well then, we better get better hitters.

 

[JohnU]

Well it ain't the hitting that keeps this team above .500.
And it ain't the bench.
Maybe it's the beer vendors.

 

[Kate Upton]

You want to see a striking difference in the Reds and the Cards this season?

Look at their 3 hole hitters...

Allen Craig with RISP: .472 average, 72 RBI in 122 plate appearances

Joey Votto with RISP: .302 average, 38 RBI in 131 plate appearances

And with 2 out and RISP?

Allen Craig: .449, 31 RBI in 55 plate appearances

Joey Votto: .148, 8 RBI in 35 plate appearances

The players gotta play better kids...that's all there is to it.

 

[Kate Upton]

Oh, and here are the links...

Allen Craig 2013 Batting Splits - Baseball-Reference.com

Joey Votto 2013 Batting Splits - Baseball-Reference.com

 

[bengaldoug]

At the risk of being called master of the obvious, the Cards are just the better team. It's pretty simple really, they hit, and we don't hit.

 

[Kate Upton]

At the risk of being called master of the obvious, the Cards are just the better team. It's pretty simple really, they hit, and we don't hit.

Yep. And it's not because of the manager, or the hitting coach, or the ballpark they play in, or any other excuse anybody wants to come up with.

They just have better hitters...period.

The bright side? Hitting comes and goes with every team.

The Reds will be in the postseason. Win that play in game? Get hot at the plate for 2 weeks?

That's all it takes.

And Sam LeCure sucks. He's no better than Ondrusek right now.

 

[Scorpion14]

Those Cardinal hitting numbers are nice but as poorly as the Reds have played they were four games down going into this series. Sorry but coaching and managing has a lot to do with this. Look if you are Cozart or Frazier and you are hitting around.230 all season and still are plugged into the lineup every single day. Both of these guys need to be benched and someone else a shot. Maybe Cozart and Frazier being benched will piss them off and make them pull their game back up.

What we are seeing is typical Dusty Baker where he is handed a team with a ton of talent and does nothing with it. After three or four years the team adapts to his personality of being low key and not really giving a damn and you see players underachieve. Pete Rose in the day showed more fire and willingness in one game than this team shows in a month. Pete Rose ran to first harder after a walk than Phillips does on a ground ball or hit to the outfield. When these guys should be mad they seem to have the attitude of zombies just going through the motion.

 

[bengaldoug]

Those Cardinal hitting numbers are nice but as poorly as the Reds have played they were four games down going into this series. Sorry but coaching and managing has a lot to do with this. Look if you are Cozart or Frazier and you are hitting around.230 all season and still are plugged into the lineup every single day. Both of these guys need to be benched and someone else a shot. Maybe Cozart and Frazier being benched will piss them off and make them pull their game back up.

What we are seeing is typical Dusty Baker where he is handed a team with a ton of talent and does nothing with it. After three or four years the team adapts to his personality of being low key and not really giving a damn and you see players underachieve. Pete Rose in the day showed more fire and willingness in one game than this team shows in a month. Pete Rose ran to first harder after a walk than Phillips does on a ground ball or hit to the outfield. When these guys should be mad they seem to have the attitude of zombies just going through the motion.

Cozart and Frazier are simply being who they are. There is no better solution at either position. Freeze and Kozma, respectively, are just better hitters by far. You can bench them and it won't change anything but bring in even worse players in Izturis and Hannahan.

 

[Kate Upton]

Those Cardinal hitting numbers are nice but as poorly as the Reds have played they were four games down going into this series. Sorry but coaching and managing has a lot to do with this. Look if you are Cozart or Frazier and you are hitting around.230 all season and still are plugged into the lineup every single day. Both of these guys need to be benched and someone else a shot. Maybe Cozart and Frazier being benched will piss them off and make them pull their game back up.

What we are seeing is typical Dusty Baker where he is handed a team with a ton of talent and does nothing with it. After three or four years the team adapts to his personality of being low key and not really giving a damn and you see players underachieve. Pete Rose in the day showed more fire and willingness to win than this team shows in a month. Pete Rose ran to first harder after a walk than Phillips does on a ground ball or hit to the outfield. When these guys should be mad they seem to have the attitude of zombies just going through the motion.

Yeah.

I'm sure if Dusty wasn't such a poor manager, that Votto wouldn't be next to useless in the situations that Craig is thriving in.

I'm sure if Dusty showed the same "fire" as Pete Rose, that Todd Frazier would be 14 for his last 28 instead of 0 for his last 28.

The "talent" on this roster is overblown. They have very good starting pitching, and when healthy, a very good back end of the bullpen.

They have good fielders, and some pop in the lineup.

But as far as pure hitters go? They have one, (maybe 2 if you include Choo) and that one has been dreadful in the situations where he is called upon to drive in runs, which given his salary, status, order slot, and role on this team, is his primary responsibility.

 

[Scorpion14]

At the risk of being called master of the obvious, the Cards are just the better team. It's pretty simple really, they hit, and we don't hit.

Are you sure of this. As poor as the Reds have played and well as the Cardinals have played the separation of these two teams was four games going into this series.

The Lakers were always great with Phil Jackson running the show. He leaves and they load up with star players and basically do nothing. Yes the players are the ones who win games but its he manager and coaches who push the player to perform at the top of their game. All I see in the Reds dugout is Dusty Baker relaxing while chewing on his toothpick. The guy working the counter at McDonalds put more effort into his job than Dusty.

 

[bengaldoug]

Keep in mind the Birds are doing all this to us without the worlds worst Red-killer, Molina. Bad as it was, it could have been much worse.

 

[JohnU]

Yep. And it's not because of the manager, or the hitting coach, or the ballpark they play in, or any other excuse anybody wants to come up with.

They just have better hitters...period.

The bright side? Hitting comes and goes with every team.

The Reds will be in the postseason. Win that play in game? Get hot at the plate for 2 weeks?

That's all it takes.

And Sam LeCure sucks. He's no better than Ondrusek right now.

You really are joking, right? You must be joking.
The Reds are the third best team in the NL-C and probably the 6th best team in the NL ... part of the time, except when they play a 3-game series.