Gruden done with 1 year deals for Kirk.

[Stymietee]

Well shit.. I check off #2, #5 and #6.

And you left off the most important one, namely he isnt Kirk Cousins.

As for McCoy having more "UPside", correct me if Im wrong, but didnt he get a shot at proving this in 2014, and I dont think we won more than one game with him as the starter.

McCoy fits the whole as long as its not Cousins mantra. And thats cool and all. But if Gruden had HALF the confidence in him that many proclaim, Kirk would have been sent packing last year.

Funny thing is....I'm not talking about McCoy!! Would love to know how you arrived at that conclusion.

 

[Sharkinva]

Funny thing is....I'm not talking about McCoy!! Would love to know how you arrived at that conclusion.

My bad.. there has been so much stuff thrown against the wall and so many names, I just assumed. So as to save me time and stress, which particular not Kirk savior WERE you referring to then??

 

[Sharkinva]

@Stymietee holy shit.. you were talking about Dalton.

1. What makes you think he will take LESS than Kirk based on said named playoffs experience
2. What is this greater upside of which you speak?? Aside from being a fire top.. Im seriously not seeing it.

3. I will admit, he does check off the most important box though. He aint Cousins/

 

[Stymietee]

The Bengals teams of which you speak were much better overall teams, at least imo, than any of the teams Kirk QBed for the Redskins. Andy Dalton and perhaps Marvin Lewis, but Dalton for sure is what held back those Bengals teams of which you speak. Kirk hasn't held back the Redskins.

Kirk's also improved over his 3 year stint as Skins starter, both physically and mentally. I think Dalton is on his downward trek or at the least he's at as good as its gonna get status. Even though Dalton is younger than Kirk I think he's hit his ceiling. Kirk on the other hand is reaching his ceiling.

Sooo, we agree that no matter who's bought in if Kirk is no longer here, that guy will be in an entirely different circumstance than the one that he comes from, right? This is why this team constantly fails in free agency. Like a lot of folks, Bruce sees players and what they've done elsewhere then just like them envisions that player bringing the same thing to this team without factoring in that significant change in venue. A really good talent evaluator reimagines that player in the system in which he brings said player into before signing him.

Considering Bruce's penchant towards signing guys with some historical connection, I can see him trying to convince Dan to go after Dalton, then after giving a thorough nut-sack licking bend to Dan's wishes for someone else.

Much better teams? ahhh No!, better in some spots yep!

 

[Stymietee]

@Stymietee holy shit.. you were talking about Dalton.

1. What makes you think he will take LESS than Kirk based on said named playoffs experience
2. What is this greater upside of which you speak?? Aside from being a fire top.. Im seriously not seeing it.

3. I will admit, he does check off the most important box though. He aint Cousins/

Dude, seriously?, there's only one guy on that Bengals team that I believe, check that, KNOW who checks off all of those boxes and it ain't Dalton!

 

[Sharkinva]

Dude, seriously?, there's only one guy on that Bengals team that I believe checks off all of those boxes and it ain't Dalton!

So we are back to the McCarron will save us thing huh??

So if he is that good, again what makes you think he will cost LESS than a market contract??

 

[Stymietee]

So we are back to the McCarron will save us thing huh??

So if he is that good, again what makes you think he will cost LESS than a market contract??

Never left it, just didn't want to entertain the naysayers any longer.

BTW: Never once said that he would save us, primarily because suggesting that, assumes that, saving this team is possible without major, major changes in the front office.

Glad you asked about less than market value because he checks off my second point once you realize that the "lowball" offer that Kirk got from them far and away exceeds what he'll likely get as a free agent QB coming off of his rookie contract. Unless there's a bidding war for his services, this team would actually save money at the QB position, while upgrading it.

 

[Sharkinva]

Never left it, just didn't want to entertain the naysayers any longer.

BTW: Never once said that he would save us, primarily because suggesting that assumes that saving this team is possible without major, major changes in the front office.

Glad you asked about less than market value because he checks off my second point once you realize that the "lowball" offer that Kirk got from them far and away exceeds what he'll likely get as a free agent QB coming off of his rookie contract. Unless there's a bidding war for his services, this team would actually save money at the QB position, while upgrading it.

Save money.. probably.

Upgrade at the position... thats your speculative opinion. HOlds about as much weight as the assumption that we would be better off with one of these 900 elite rookie QBs in this years draft.

 

[Sportster 72]

I'm not exactly following you on this last point. While I agree with you all about Dan and Bruce not liking Dalton, I can't get my mind around the point you're making about Kirk.

It is true that Kirk has become significantly better under the Gruden, McVay, Shanahan watches, that's undeniable, however in your previous post you put the onus on Gruden for the 9-7, 8-7-1 finishes without mentioning the same record for Kirk in a comparative manner with Dalton.

To be clear, Dalton in Gruden's system was 9-7 (2o11), 10-6 (2012), and 11-5 (2013). Kirk on the other hand in a similar 3 year span posted records of 9-7 (2015), 8-7-1 (2016), and 7-9 (2017).
Now to be fair, I just want to focus on that thing that you said about Kirk merely needing "a competent team that will that won't step on its own dick when given the chance." Didn't he have that in 2015 and 2016?

No the defense in Washington was never as good as the defense in Cincinnati.

 

[Stymietee]

Save money.. probably.

Upgrade at the position... thats your speculative opinion. HOlds about as much weight as the assumption that we would be better off with one of these 900 elite rookie QBs in this years draft.

Interesting, because that's an actual assumption on your part. There was a challenge put out, I accepted that challenge and did a lot of homework so at least my position is based upon research and NOT because of some trumped up crap about what he could or could not do in Cincy.

 

[Stymietee]

No the defense in Washington was never as good as the defense in Cincinnati.

I love the way some here omit parts of a perspective. In this case the reverse would mean that with a bette or at least as good defense here, even a guy like Dalton would do at least as well as he did in Gruden's system in Cincy. Let's review, 9-7 (2o11), 10-6 (2012), and 11-5 (2013)

 

[Sharkinva]

IM just going to throw it out there.


IF we replace Cousins, should we go say 6-10 or worse with whom ever the new savior is..... the first people calling for Grudens head will be the same people that were calling for his head at the beginning of 2015 and are lobbying for any one at QB aside from the guy who just started for us the past three years.

 

[Breed]

Sooo, we agree that no matter who's bought in if Kirk is no longer here, that guy will be in an entirely different circumstance than the one that he comes from, right? This is why this team constantly fails in free agency. Like a lot of folks, Bruce sees players and what they've done elsewhere then just like them envisions that player bringing the same thing to this team without factoring in that significant change in venue. A really good talent evaluator reimagines that player in the system in which he brings said player into before signing him.

Considering Bruce's penchant towards signing guys with some historical connection, I can see him trying to convince Dan to go after Dalton, then after giving a thorough nut-sack licking bend to Dan's wishes for someone else.

Much better teams? ahhh No!, better in some spots yep!

On offense/ Better running game - Cincy. Better WRs/TE - Push with AJ Green being the best of the WR/TE. Better OL - Push with Trent Williams being the best OL.

On defense/Better DL - Cincy. Better LBs - Cincy. Better DBs - Cincy.

Better FG kicker - in the 3 year span Kirk's QBed th Skins they were 63 FGM/83 FGA. Cincy was 71 FGM/83 FGA. I'd say that edge has to go to Cincy as well.

So, much better? Perhaps not, but I'd say better w/o question on the defensive side of the ball.

 

[Stymietee]

Let me add this:

If Kirk walks, which I suspect he will, and the team falters under the new guy, the same so-called "hater" label that was charged to some in the fan base, will be equally and unfairly visited upon others because he isn't Kirk...yet.

However, if the team thrives or barely misses a step at QB, there's going to be a silence so thick coming from the separation anxiety crowd to make neutron stars envious.

 

[Stymietee]

On offense/ Better running game - Cincy. Better WRs/TE - Push with AJ Green being the best of the WR/TE. Better OL - Push with Trent Williams being the best OL.

On defense/Better DL - Cincy. Better LBs - Cincy. Better DBs - Cincy.

Better FG kicker - in the 3 year span Kirk's QBed th Skins they were 63 FGM/83 FGA. Cincy was 71 FGM/83 FGA. I'd say that edge has to go to Cincy as well.

So, much better? Perhaps not, but I'd say better w/o question on the defensive side of the ball.

OK, I won't argue against your conclusions but I will add that in as much as HC and OC's go Washington had far and away better personnel. Gruden vs Lewis, edge to us but McVay and Shanahan both took Gruden's offense to next level shit. I honestly believe that he learned a bunch about his own offensive system's capabilities from both of those guys.

 

[Sharkinva]

For three years, we have heard how starting Kirk was a mistake, then how he was only mediocre and any one could do what he has done.

If Kirk leaves ( actually more like is pushed out) and this team is not a Division winning, NFC conference capable team.. I dont wanna hear shit from the ABC crowd about separation anxiety. If Kirk was mediocre, easily replaced, and a better QB could be had by strolling to Walmart, this team better be a legit Super Bowl contender because thats the line I have been sold for three years now.

 

[Stymietee]

For three years, we have heard how starting Kirk was a mistake, then how he was only mediocre and any one could do what he has done.

If Kirk leaves ( actually more like is pushed out) and this team is not a Division winning, NFC conference capable team.. I dont wanna hear shit from the ABC crowd about separation anxiety. If Kirk was mediocre, easily replaced, and a better QB could be had by strolling to Walmart, this team better be a legit Super Bowl contender because thats the line I have been sold for three years now.

Not an ABC'er but Sir, you have a deal, provided they get my choice!

However, if they do get him, and thrive, I'll certainly entertain requests to kiss my pinky ring from the naysayers!! (Yep, I'm that confident)

 

[Sharkinva]

Not an ABC'er but Sir, you have a deal, provided they get my choice!

However, if they do get him, and thrive, I'll certainly entertain requests to kiss my pinky ring from the naysayers!! (Yep, I'm that confident)

And i will say this then.... if they push Kirk out as i suspect.... Provided he doesnt go to the Browns, the team he does go to will finish better than the Redskins. The Browns are a well paid death sentence for any career.

 

[kbso83432]

Redskins, Kirk Cousins face multiple key dates in contract decision

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12:52 PM CT

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  John KeimESPN Staff Writer

Washington Redskins coach Jay Gruden wants it settled. Quarterback Kirk Cousins does, too, but he also said he's willing to hit March without signing a long-term deal with the Redskins. Because of that, the Cousins-Redskins story will once more play out during the offseason.

That would mark a third straight offseason in which Cousins' contract status with the Redskins becomes a key storyline. The question will be whether there's finally a long-term resolution -- and how that occurs.

Here's a look at the key offseason dates for Cousins and the Redskins:

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March 14: The start of the new league year, which also means the start of free agency and the ability to trade players. If the Redskins opt for no tag, Cousins would become an unrestricted free agent. They could let him test the market and gamble they'll be his best option. Or if the number is too high they could let him walk and receive a compensatory pick in 2019.

With Jimmy Garoppolo in San Francisco -- assuming the 49ers work out something with him -- the obvious landing spot has been removed. There are teams with more cap room than Washington who need a quarterback, including the Cleveland Browns and the New York Jets. But would those represent better spots for long-term success? The grass-isn't-always-greener philosophy will be in play. Other quarterback-needy teams such as Arizona, Denver and Jacksonville would have to free up space to sign Cousins and then make other moves.

Also, if the Redskins tag him before the deadline and realize they can't make a deal, they could now trade Cousins.

April 2: Teams with new coaches can start working out. This might not impact Cousins at all, but if a team with a new head coach wants him, it would be helpful to have it worked out by this date so they can get to work.





April 16: Reporting date for teams with head coaches who are returning. Cousins has been big on not missing any offseason work, so there's little doubt he would want some sort of resolution by this point (teams would want the same).

April 26: The first round of the draft. Another arbitrary deadline, but pertinent because if the Redskins want to get a trade done, it would make sense to have it completed by this date so they can benefit from a draft pick in 2018.

July 16: The deadline for franchise players to sign a multi-year deal. Redskins fans should be well-versed in knowing the following: After this date, no long-term deal can be reached until the season ends.

July 23: The deadline for any team to sign Cousins if the Redskins use a transition tag designation. After this point and until the Tuesday following the 10th week of the regular season, the Redskins have exclusive negotiating rights.

 

[kbso83432]

Redskins, Kirk Cousins face multiple key dates in contract decision

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12:52 PM CT

• 
  
  John KeimESPN Staff Writer

Washington Redskins coach Jay Gruden wants it settled. Quarterback Kirk Cousins does, too, but he also said he's willing to hit March without signing a long-term deal with the Redskins. Because of that, the Cousins-Redskins story will once more play out during the offseason.

That would mark a third straight offseason in which Cousins' contract status with the Redskins becomes a key storyline. The question will be whether there's finally a long-term resolution -- and how that occurs.

Here's a look at the key offseason dates for Cousins and the Redskins:

If the Redskins opt for a third franchise tag, Kirk Cousins' one-year salary would be $34.5 million. Brad Mills/USA TODAY Sports
Feb. 20: The first day the Redskins can use the franchise or transition tag on Cousins. If the Redskins use a third franchise tag, according to the collective bargaining agreement, they can only use the exclusive one. That means Cousins could only sign or negotiate with the Redskins. However if the Redskins applied the exclusive tag and failed to work out a deal, they could try to trade him. In that case, they could give him permission to speak to other teams that might be interested.

March 6: Deadline to apply the franchise or transition tag. This comes right after the NFL scouting combine where teams and agents gather in one location, which could lead to informal what-if discussions.

If the Redskins opt for a third franchise tag, Cousins' one-year salary would be $34.5 million. But if the Redskins went this route, it would be to either sign him to a long-term deal or, failing that, to trade him. The risk would be that he doesn't like other opportunities and declines a long-term offer and plays under the tag. It might not make the most sense; it is an option that some close to Cousins believe is possible.

As of now, the Redskins have about $52 million in cap space for 2018; having him play for that amount would not be helpful. Even the transition tag at $28.8 million would occupy a large chunk of space. They can create more room with a few other moves, but it still wouldn't leave them a lot to be aggressive this offseason. If they use the transition tag, they can match any offer -- but receive no compensation if they don't.

There’s no guarantee this would lead to a long-term deal; it would require Cousins to truly want to sign with whatever team offers him a contract. Otherwise, he'll once more play in Washington on a one-year deal.

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