Zion has said, he will only play for the Knicks!

[tlance]

Don't underestimate Zion. And why would he need to "revamp his shot"? He shoots 68% from the field now. What other NBA Star shoots 68% FG percentage for the season now?

Because he can't shoot?

He is 68% because so many of his shots come from around the rim. His jumper needs a lot of work.

 

[douggie]

Because he can't shoot?

He is 68% because so many of his shots come from around the rim. His jumper needs a lot of work.

You haven't been watching him play. He's unconventional and unlike anybody else. You want to compare him and his scoring to others and you can't because he's unlike other scorers.

In the NBA he has to be guarded, right? Man-to-man? He doesn't shoot jumpers and still scores because he gets to the rim with his athleticism. You can double team him and he passes it to the open man. Or, he beats the double team and still scores. Triple team him and he has two options extra. His 45" vertical leap and his uncanny finishes at the rim avails his scoring. You want to compare him to Barkley or Lebron, Giannis, etc, and he's not like them, but they aren't him either. I've never seen anyone like him before. He's so much fun to watch because every game he gives you, "Wow moments", he just did that? He's unselfish, unconventional, and unique. There's nobody in the NBA who has ever been him. His defense is anticipation, quick off the floor and uncanny. If you think he will be a bust then you haven't seen him play the game. He's just different from the norm. He's a bowling ball on a pogo stick. I have never seen an NBA player like him.

 

[gohusk]

You haven't been watching him play. He's unconventional and unlike anybody else. You want to compare him and his scoring to others and you can't because he's unlike other scorers.

In the NBA he has to be guarded, right? Man-to-man? He doesn't shoot jumpers and still scores because he gets to the rim with his athleticism. You can double team him and he passes it to the open man. Or, he beats the double team and still scores. Triple team him and he has two options extra. His 45" vertical leap and his uncanny finishes at the rim avails his scoring. You want to compare him to Barkley or Lebron, Giannis, etc, and he's not like them, but they aren't him either. I've never seen anyone like him before. He's so much fun to watch because every game he gives you, "Wow moments", he just did that? He's unselfish, unconventional, and unique. There's nobody in the NBA who has ever been him. His defense is anticipation, quick off the floor and uncanny. If you think he will be a bust then you haven't seen him play the game. He's just different from the norm. He's a bowling ball on a pogo stick. I have never seen an NBA player like him.

There's been plenty of players that had his "wow" factor for his position in college: Jamaal Mashburn, Glen Robinson, Larry Johnson, ... All those guys had pretty solid careers but 6'7" is 6'7". It's the NBA. Every guy in a starting lineup is basically one of the best player you've ever faced in college and the only way you can go out there thinking you can make a living dunking over people is if you're a god who's ascended down to earth like Giannis or James. I'm not seeing it. His size (weight) is going to work against him with the wear and tear of a long season. I'm not saying he's going to be a "bust" but I don't see superstar.

 

[douggie]

There's been plenty of players that had his "wow" factor for his position in college: Jamaal Mashburn, Glen Robinson, Larry Johnson, ... All those guys had pretty solid careers but 6'7" is 6'7". It's the NBA. Every guy in a starting lineup is basically one of the best player you've ever faced in college and the only way you can go out there thinking you can make a living dunking over people is if you're a god who's ascended down to earth like Giannis or James. I'm not seeing it. His size (weight) is going to work against him with the wear and tear of a long season. I'm not saying he's going to be a "bust" but I don't see superstar.

Was Steph Curry a superstar his rookie season? I think he was a #7 pick as I recall and behind Rubio and Thabeet even. Superstar is a relative term. You want to compare his game, define him and you can't because it's just not that easy.

He isn't a 2, 3, 4, or 5 as he plays position-less basketball because he can face the basket or post up with his back to the basket. Either way he makes things happen.

You measure him at 6'7" 280 but he has immeasurables like diving for loose balls when his team's up by twenty, when he comes with a double team to trap but he isn't trapping you into making a bad pass, he's coming to steal the ball. He can block shots from behind, the side, make up ground quickly. He's a rim protector who can out-quick anybody off the floor. He's strong with both hands and the highest your guy can jump for a rebound he can jump over him.


He's more than just a solid NBA prospect.

 

[trojanfan12]

You haven't been watching him play. He's unconventional and unlike anybody else. You want to compare him and his scoring to others and you can't because he's unlike other scorers.

In the NBA he has to be guarded, right? Man-to-man? He doesn't shoot jumpers and still scores because he gets to the rim with his athleticism. You can double team him and he passes it to the open man. Or, he beats the double team and still scores. Triple team him and he has two options extra. His 45" vertical leap and his uncanny finishes at the rim avails his scoring. You want to compare him to Barkley or Lebron, Giannis, etc, and he's not like them, but they aren't him either. I've never seen anyone like him before. He's so much fun to watch because every game he gives you, "Wow moments", he just did that? He's unselfish, unconventional, and unique. There's nobody in the NBA who has ever been him. His defense is anticipation, quick off the floor and uncanny. If you think he will be a bust then you haven't seen him play the game. He's just different from the norm. He's a bowling ball on a pogo stick. I have never seen an NBA player like him.

No doubt much of what you say is true. However, things aren't likely to come as easily for him in the NBA. He's undersized for the positions he has to play and that's likely to hurt him as well.

Just for comparison, Lonzo Ball shot 55% from the field and 41% from 3 when he was in college. Those are outstanding numbers for a perimeter player. Some of the same things that some are saying about Zion's shot were said about Lonzo's.

In the NBA, Lonzo's shooting 38% and 32%.

I'm not saying that Zion will experience the same issues or that he won't be a star. But it's far from a lock that he'll be a great player in the NBA.

 

[douggie]

No doubt much of what you say is true. However, things aren't likely to come as easily for him in the NBA. He's undersized for the positions he has to play and that's likely to hurt him as well.

Just for comparison, Lonzo Ball shot 55% from the field and 41% from 3 when he was in college. Those are outstanding numbers for a perimeter player. Some of the same things that some are saying about Zion's shot were said about Lonzo's.

In the NBA, Lonzo's shooting 38% and 32%.

I'm not saying that Zion will experience the same issues or that he won't be a star. But it's far from a lock that he'll be a great player in the NBA.

Hey I like the kid and I'm rooting for him, that's true. That doesn't mean I'm saying he's a lock for superstardom either. Listen, he isn't all things to all people and I get that. He's just a great basketball player and he will be in the NBA I believe, and all we have to go on for his rookie season next year is this past season at Duke so I know his criticisms too. He's special and I've seen a bunch of great players at Duke along with plenty of busts to know what bad is and this kid is nowhere close to bad, but that's just my opinion.

 

[tlance]

You haven't been watching him play. He's unconventional and unlike anybody else. You want to compare him and his scoring to others and you can't because he's unlike other scorers.

In the NBA he has to be guarded, right? Man-to-man? He doesn't shoot jumpers and still scores because he gets to the rim with his athleticism. You can double team him and he passes it to the open man. Or, he beats the double team and still scores. Triple team him and he has two options extra. His 45" vertical leap and his uncanny finishes at the rim avails his scoring. You want to compare him to Barkley or Lebron, Giannis, etc, and he's not like them, but they aren't him either. I've never seen anyone like him before. He's so much fun to watch because every game he gives you, "Wow moments", he just did that? He's unselfish, unconventional, and unique. There's nobody in the NBA who has ever been him. His defense is anticipation, quick off the floor and uncanny. If you think he will be a bust then you haven't seen him play the game. He's just different from the norm. He's a bowling ball on a pogo stick. I have never seen an NBA player like him.

No. I have watched him play plenty. I am very high on him and I think he will be a star. I never said he can't score at the NBA level. I think he probably averages close to 20 a games as a rookie. And that isn't even the best part of his game.

But guess what?

He still is a bad perimeter shooter and needs a lot of work on that aspect of his game.

But that is okay because none of these guys could shoot either when they first entered the league:

LeBron
Giannis

And Magic and Michael couldn't really shoot past 18 feet either.

So it is okay.

But he still needs to work on his jumpshot to further open up the rest of his game. So the person who originally made that comment was spot on.

Zion is a great prospect, but he isn't perfect. A high quality jumper would make him a lot closer to it though.

 

[shopson67]

No, it won't.

It will only take more because salaries won't match and NY may want to dump a couple contracts to allow them to still sign 2 big FAs.

So, which is it?

 

[tlance]

So, which is it?

More players will be involved. but there shouldn't be any other assets in the package.

Then again, it is the Knicks, so who knows? Maybe they get fleeced.

I am quite sure NO would trade AD for Zion straight up and not think twice if that deal was offered to them.

 

[shopson67]

Not a lot more.

They just have to beat a Boston offer of Tatum and Smart and two first round picks. The first round picks are good too. That Gris pick is almost certainly the best draft pick available and very well could be a top 4 pick in a couple of years. The sac pick is somewhere late lottery early playoffs.

But NOLA is going to be full rebuild. Do they have enough faith in building a competatent team quick enough where they won't be in this exact same poisition in two years where they are shopping an unhappy Tatum? With Zion you get an extra 2 years. That's huge for a team starting from scratch.

And for as good as Tatum is and for the small questions surrounding Zion, I don't think there is a single GM in the league that would take Tatum for 2 years over Zion over 4 when in this position.

I see it as a neck and neck situation.

...and this then gets into whether or not Boston is willing to offer that much. With the crazy assets they have, but also the weird situation they are in with Hayward and his contract, they have a million and one options on ways to move forward. And maybe they too are worried that AD might indeed walk away from them leaving them starting all over from near scratch.

The Celtics situation and the Knicks situation are not equal in terms of trading for AD. AD is interested in an extension with the Knicks. He isn't with the Celtics, at least not at this time. That will lower Boston's offer significantly.

Regardless, Tatum's value isn't the question. The upside for Zion is AD. Does he reach that upside? AD already has. The advantages for Zion are youth and cost. However, when making a trade, that complicates things and requires more to be added to the deal when salary caps come into play.

I don't see the Knicks trading Zion anyway if they get the #1 pick. That cap space for 2 other max players is too important IMO.

 

[shopson67]

More players will be involved. but there shouldn't be any other assets in the package.

Then again, it is the Knicks, so who knows? Maybe they get fleeced.

I am quite sure NO would trade AD for Zion straight up and not think twice if that deal was offered to them.

I can't see the Knicks cutting into that cap space though, so I don't see such a trade coming to light anyway.

 

[tlance]

I can't see the Knicks cutting into that cap space though, so I don't see such a trade coming to light anyway.

That is why the Knicks might want to include more pieces. To fit under the cap.

The only way they deal Zion is if they sign a couple big FAs. Then the deal makes sense for both teams because the Knicks would be instant contenders and have a good shot to keep AD.

If they don't sign any FAs, there is no reason to trade.

Most contenders would prefer AD because he helps more now and they have a good chance to resign him. All rebuilders would prefer Zion because they would have him to build around for at least 8 years. I don't even think that is debateable.

NOLA is rebuilding and Davis is leaving. They would defintely rather have Zion. And I don't think any combination of pieces the Celtics have to offer is as appealing as getting a rookie who looks like he could be the next superstar.

 

[Rex Racer]

Don't underestimate Zion. And why would he need to "revamp his shot"? He shoots 68% from the field now. What other NBA Star shoots 68% FG percentage for the season now?

I'm talking his low release point.

 

[shopson67]

There's been plenty of players that had his "wow" factor for his position in college: Jamaal Mashburn, Glen Robinson, Larry Johnson, ... All those guys had pretty solid careers but 6'7" is 6'7". It's the NBA. Every guy in a starting lineup is basically one of the best player you've ever faced in college and the only way you can go out there thinking you can make a living dunking over people is if you're a god who's ascended down to earth like Giannis or James. I'm not seeing it. His size (weight) is going to work against him with the wear and tear of a long season. I'm not saying he's going to be a "bust" but I don't see superstar.

I wouldn't go that far, but he's not a slam dunk elite player. It will be interesting to see how he fits in the NBA. To me, his quickness off the floor is his elite ability. Is that enough to become an all NBA type player? We will have to wait and see.

 

[Shanemansj13]

I wouldn't go that far, but he's not a slam dunk elite player. It will be interesting to see how he fits in the NBA. To me, his quickness off the floor is his elite ability. Is that enough to become an all NBA type player? We will have to wait and see.

Well I also think he is an elite finisher around the rim so pair that with "quickness off the floor" which imo has to do with rebounding and scoring that is pretty damn good. I agree, he isn't a slam dunk and I have some concerns:

1. outside shooting (although I don't think it is necessary but it will expand his game unlike Simmons who still doesn't have a jumpshot at all)
2. stamina - and this is more of taking off plays and with his weight giving it all game in and game out for 82 games. If he could shed some of that weight (muscle) I think it could benefit him in a long 82 game season.

I don't see really many concerns anywhere else bc in time he will work on his game as far as post moves, shooting, signatures moves, etc.

 

[douggie]

I'm talking his low release point.

I know he doesn't have a jumper as he shoots a set shot from deep. But that's not his fault since everyone backs off of him trying to deny his drive to the basket he just simply shoots a set shot uncontested. He shot 33% from 3 point range this season.

 

[trojanfan12]

Hey I like the kid and I'm rooting for him, that's true. That doesn't mean I'm saying he's a lock for superstardom either. Listen, he isn't all things to all people and I get that. He's just a great basketball player and he will be in the NBA I believe, and all we have to go on for his rookie season next year is this past season at Duke so I know his criticisms too. He's special and I've seen a bunch of great players at Duke along with plenty of busts to know what bad is and this kid is nowhere close to bad, but that's just my opinion.

Don't get me wrong. I really like the kid and I think that he will be a special player in the league. If a miracle happened and the Lakers were to somehow get the #1 pick and took him...I'd be beyond ecstatic.

At worst, I think that he will have a long career as a productive player. But he has a couple of things to work on to be as good as I think he's likely to be.

 

[tlance]

I know he doesn't have a jumper as he shoots a set shot from deep. But that's not his fault since everyone backs off of him trying to deny his drive to the basket he just simply shoots a set shot uncontested. He shot 33% from 3 point range this season.

Steph Curry shoots a set shot too. When I say he doesn't have a jumper, I don't care if he shoots a jumper or a set shot. What I mean is that his perimeter shot is not very effective.

His overall FG% is so high because he is an amazing finisher in the paint, and not just on dunks. And also he has really good shot selection.

But he still can't shoot from the perimeter very well and I am kind of shocked anyone would even argue this. 33% from the college 3 point line for someone who basically isn't even guarded out there isn't very good at all. It isn't Taco Fall level of can't shoot, but it isn't good.

 

[douggie]

Steph Curry shoots a set shot too. When I say he doesn't have a jumper, I don't care if he shoots a jumper or a set shot. What I mean is that his perimeter shot is not very effective.

His overall FG% is so high because he is an amazing finisher in the paint, and not just on dunks. And also he has really good shot selection.

But he still can't shoot from the perimeter very well and I am kind of shocked anyone would even argue this. 33% from the college 3 point line for someone who basically isn't even guarded out there isn't very good at all. It isn't Taco Fall level of can't shoot, but it isn't good.

I'm sure Zion wants to shoot threes at an effective average too, but that won't be necessary in his game. Again, you want to compare him with other NBA stars.

Well compare him to HOF Dennis Johnson who was a 5X all-star, 3X NBA Champion, 2X All-NBA, but he was 9X Best NBA Defensive Player, and how many PPG did he need? To do all that he averaged 14 PPG on 44% FGA and 17% 3PA.

Again you want to compare superstars to Zion but that's like saying Shaquille needs to work on his Free Throws because they'll foul him until he makes them. He can't be a potential superstar otherwise? C'mon now

 

[Shanemansj13]

I'm sure Zion wants to shoot threes at an effective average too, but that won't be necessary in his game. Again, you want to compare him with other NBA stars.

Well compare him to HOF Dennis Johnson who was a 5X all-star, 3X NBA Champion, 2X All-NBA, but he was 9X Best NBA Defensive Player, and how many PPG did he need? To do all that he averaged 14 PPG on 44% FGA and 17% 3PA.

Again you want to compare superstars to Zion but that's like saying Shaquille needs to work on his Free Throws because they'll foul him until he makes them. He can't be a potential superstar otherwise? C'mon now

Well today's game is WAY different than how it was back then but I get your point. He doesn't need to have an outside shot in today's game necessarily but if you look at his shot now it is way better than other great players coming out of college who are great at attacking the rim: Giannis and Simmons. Simmons is also 6'9" and Giannis is 6'11" but he is about Draymond height with more muscle and weight and way more athletic ability so he should be just fine imo.

You can't compare anyone to Zion but if there was a guy it would probably be Larry Johnson or something along those lines.