Would you take Tyrann Mathieu with our 2nd pick?

[NinerSickness]

Exactly!!

This time of year, people put too much stock in the measurables like 40 time, bench press, height, ect...

No they don't.

 

[Dodub]

So I think it's safe to assume the Niners won't be draftimg Mathieu now that Nnamdi signed. Good thing too.

I don't agree with that assumption. Even though I don't think we will get him (you never know how things will fall in the draft and i expect him to go mid 2nd). But we will certainly draft a CB in this draft. Nnamdi, Rogers and Brown will all be gone after this season along with Whiter. Our secondary will be depleated.. We will certainly draft more than one DB in this draft, I wouldn't be suprised with several

 

[Dodub]

Exactly!!

This time of year, people put too much stock in the measurables like 40 time, bench press, height, ect...

The most important things are football instincts, football IQ, playmaker ability, and game tape and Mathieu shines in all those departments. He's the anti Taylor Mays!

I agree completely. The average fan puts WAY too much stock in 40 time. Height i can seee being an issue for him if he is put up against taller recievers but I suspect that he will play mostly in the slot in this league, the guy reminds me alot of Antoine Winfield. As for 40 time, it is a good indicator of how fast a player is in a straight line an how well they can recover but it isn't the end all, especially when timed at the combine. As long as a player has adequate speed for his position, I'm not at all worried. Film is much more important, I've seen too many workout warriors who blow up the combine but don't have the film to match and didn't do well in the league. Film shows how well you can actually play the game while the combine shows how athletic you are. If you have both then you will do well in the league. If you have great combine numbers but no game you will most likely fail.

As for Mathieu, he puts great film on tape, he is simply a play maker and shoed the best change of direction, quickness and hips at the combine. He had a good 40 time (not a world beater but good) and backed it up with film. He'll be just fine in this league.

 

[sjballer03]

I'm not necessarily very high on the Honey Badger, but I feel some people are putting way too much stock into the "drug issues." Coming to a solid org like the Niners (Steelers, Patriots, etc) would be a perfect situation for someone like him. As long as the value is there, I wouldn't mind if the Niners drafted him.

 

[NinerSickness]

I'm not necessarily very high on the Honey Badger, but I feel some people are putting way too much stock into the "drug issues."

You relaly think so? I'm not 100% sure the NFL pays more than LSU; but if it does, yo'ure not worried that the money he'd make would just magnify the already enormous off-field problems he has?

 

[sjballer03]

You relaly think so? I'm not 100% sure the NFL pays more than LSU; but if it does, yo'ure not worried that the money he'd make would just magnify the already enormous off-field problems he has?

It just comes down to risk vs reward, and this seems like a high risk-high reward pick. Isn't that what late round picks are for? It's not as if their contracts are guaranteed.

 

[NinerSickness]

It just comes down to risk vs reward, and this seems like a high risk-high reward pick. Isn't that what late round picks are for? It's not as if their contracts are guaranteed.

I don't think he's all that high of a potential reward. At 5'8 186 pounds, he's not even that fast. If you're that tiny, you'd better be able to fly.

In fact, wouldn't he be the smallest CB in the NFL at that size? I can't think of anyone smaller.

 

[bvanthielriceyoung]

Unless I'm missing something, the only issue I ever heard about Mathieu is he loves weed and is dumb about it. But thats the only issue I have heard about him. I never heard he had a bad work ethic, or was a bad team mate, or uncoachable, etc.

He's gotten arrested for weed and was suspended for it but this seems like his one issue. For me, and maybe I'm looking at this wrong, his red flag(s) dont seem as near as bad as some are making it out to be or as bad as some other prospects that have come and gone.

I know talk is cheap but he has been saying all the right things and appears to really want to change.

 

[bvanthielriceyoung]

At 5'8 186 pounds, he's not even that fast. If you're that tiny, you'd better be able to fly.

In fact, wouldn't he be the smallest CB in the NFL at that size? I can't think of anyone smaller

He's 5'9, which yes is short but there are others. Just looking at a few off the top of my head Cortland Finnegan is 5 10. Janoris Jenkins 5 10. Antoine Winfield 5'9

 

[NinerSickness]

He's 5'9, which yes is short but there are others. Just looking at a few off the top of my head Cortland Finnegan is 5 10. Janoris Jenkins 5 10. Antoine Winfield 5'9

Sorry; 5'8 3/4. That is closer to 5'9.

I loved Janoris Jenkins as a porspect. Finnegan is one of the few late-round probowl CBs you ever see. Winfield was a first round pick, but even that was 14 years ago.

I'm pretty sure Mathieu would be the shortest CB in the NFL at that size. Granted, he is much quicker than fast, which helps a lot play ing CB. But he also played with a mostly NFL front 7 and NFL DBs around him.

I'm still passing 'til at LEAST the 5th round & probably 'til the 6th.

 

[bvanthielriceyoung]

Sorry; 5'8 3/4. That is closer to 5'9.

This is stupid of me to bring up but just for shits anyways, where did you see 5'8 3/4? All I have seen is 5'9 and 5'9 1/8.


03/29/13 - 2013 LSU Pro Day: Tyrann Mathieu, CB (5-9 1/8, 194) - Mathieu looked very good in positional drills. He’s very quick out of his breaks and has great hands. He weighed 6 pounds more than he did at the combine. - Gil Brandt, NFL.com

 

[bvanthielriceyoung]

I loved Janoris Jenkins as a porspect.

You loved Jenkins as a prospect?? That's surprising on a few different levels. A big negative you bring up is the off field issues but Jenkins was even worse. You bring up height but there is less than an inch that separates them. (Jenkins I believe is 5'9 3/4) You bring up 40 time and Jenkins ran a 4.46. Mathieu ran a 4.5.

Some other interesting numbers.
Jenkins 33.5 inch vertical Mathieu 34 in vertical
Jenkins 4.13 20 yard shuttle Mathieu 4.14 20 yard shuttle
Jenkins 6.95 3 cone drill Mathieu 6.87 3 cone drill
Jenkins 121 broad jump Mathieu 117 inch broad jump

 

[uncfan103]

This is stupid of me to bring up but just for shits anyways, where did you see 5'8 3/4? All I have seen is 5'9 and 5'9 1/8.


03/29/13 - 2013 LSU Pro Day: Tyrann Mathieu, CB (5-9 1/8, 194) - Mathieu looked very good in positional drills. He’s very quick out of his breaks and has great hands. He weighed 6 pounds more than he did at the combine. - Gil Brandt, NFL.com

Those are the same measurements i saw on Mathieu from the senior bowl.

 

[NinerSickness]

You loved Jenkins as a prospect?? That's surprising on a few different levels. A big negative you bring up is the off field issues but Jenkins was even worse.

That's exactly the point I was making (except Mathieu's problems are worse than Jenkins' IMO; it's subjective, but I'd be more worried about Mathieu). That's how much better of a prospect Jenkins was than Mathieu is IMO.

This isn't to say the guy can't play; but I just think he's so limited it would be hard to get him on the field in a Niner uni'.

By the way, this source said 5'8 3/4:

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl-mock-dr...tyrann-mathieu-combine-nfl-2013-height-weight

 

[4lifer9er]

I think Jenkins clearly has much more great #2 potential/solid #1 potential then Mathieu, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Mathieu in the right place have a ten year career as a slot corner. Or flame out after his second season and third failed drug test.

 

[EaseUrStorm]

I think Jenkins clearly has much more great #2 potential/solid #1 potential then Mathieu, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Mathieu in the right place have a ten year career as a slot corner. Or flame out after his second season and third failed drug test.

I agree. I could see Mathieu becoming like an Allen Iverson type player out there playing way bigger than his height if he pulled everything together. I could see him menacing bigger players with his knack for stripping the ball away.

Or I could also see him out of football hanging out on the street. He's the greed pick, it's just a matter of when. His return skills will prop him up. And if he didn't have that going for him, I could see him really crashing down.

 

[NinerSickness]

By the way, the link I provided said Mathieu's weight at LSU was 176 pounds. So the reason he didn't run as fast as expected at the combine may have been because he could've bulked up for his weigh-in.

If his playing weight is really 176 pounds, that's a huge red flag. That's tiny.

 

[Dodub]

Antoine Winfield is the same height and weighs 180, I've seen reports that said Mathieu is up above 190 right now. I would actually like to see hiim lose some of that weight, 180 would be a perfect playing weight for him.

 

[NinerSickness]

I've seen reports that said Mathieu is up above 190 right now. I would actually like to see hiim lose some of that weight, 180 would be a perfect playing weight for him.

I trust a playing weight a lot more than an offseason weight. Jonathan Jenkins lost 11 pounds since the combine; big deal. Once he's in the NFL, he'd probably gonna have a Vince Wilfork body type (which isn't necessaruly a nad thing).

Players usually lose a little weight over the course of the season. 180 is probably about right for the guy. I know Winfield played at that weight, but he seems to be the exception to the rule.

The weight issue actually has more to do with my questions about him playing FS. That's where a lot of people were projecting him this season. At his size, it's probably CB or bust.

 

[Dodub]

I trust a playing weight a lot more than an offseason weight. Jonathan Jenkins lost 11 pounds since the combine; big deal. Once he's in the NFL, he'd probably gonna have a Vince Wilfork body type (which isn't necessaruly a nad thing).

Players usually lose a little weight over the course of the season. 180 is probably about right for the guy. I know Winfield played at that weight, but he seems to be the exception to the rule.

The weight issue actually has more to do with my questions about him playing FS. That's where a lot of people were projecting him this season. At his size, it's probably CB or bust.

I think 180 would be a perfect playing weight for him. I also know how your weight changes during a season (through personal experience) and I expect his weight to go down. What I am saying is that 194 is a bit too heavy for his 5'9" frame and I would like to see him play at about 180.

I don't think anyone expects him to play FS. This guy is a CB and more specifically a slot CB, he might eventually start for someone but at the beginning of his career he'll likely be just a slot CB.