POLL Would You Rather? Baker vs Burrow

[SteelersPride]

too fucking funny

gotta hand it to you SteelersPride, can't be said you haven't done all you could to keep this thread going.

well with the exception of eric, most ppl just throw claims out but have zero to back them up, at least back your shit up

 

[PDay8810]

well with the exception of eric, most ppl just throw claims out but have zero to back them up, at least back your shit up

seems like a fair request

Some here have little regard to how bad the Big 12 plays defense when propping up Mayfield in college. But as you said, I'm a Mayfield hater. Wonder if he'll offer up his hot sports opinion on a drafted QB like he did the Gmen's selection last draft. Course, that was when he was feeling his oats after the 2018 season. I'm sure after last season and his Cheese Cake Factory story, he'll be a choir boy for awhile.

 

[Shanemansj13]

What we do know is...Baker is better at receiving blowjobs

 

[richig07]

Maybe neither.

The problem with looking at QB's on top college teams is that they usually have 6-8 seconds to throw. Nearly any decent QB can get a decent pass off in that time. In the pros it's 2-3 seconds and the coverage is better disguised and tighter. Once they get to the pros they have to make better reads near instantly and good, tight throws in less than half the time. Neither one of these two impress me when under pressure.

Burrow's numbers under pressure were the best from any QB prospect in ages.

 

[broncosmitty]

Bold prediction: Lock won't be a starter in this league in a couple of years

Neither will Mayfield.


Taking Lock isn't much of a stretch imo.

 

[Across The Field]

meh, Baker had 27 td's and 14 int's in that 'great' rookie season.

Lamar went 36-6 in his first full season. Mahomes went 50-12. those are great first seasons.

Jimmy G went 27-13 this season and people call him average. Baker had an 'average' year for an NFL qb in his rookie year and then an outright bad year this season after people had tape on him.

at this point, me calling him average is more than fair. he might not even be average.

Just stupid. Having an "average" NFL QB year as a rookie netted him the all-time rookie passing TD record. Mahomes didn't play as a rookie and Lamar Jackson barely did. Also, not sure if you're aware of how coaching works, but Andy Reid and John Harbaugh are infinitely better than Freddie Kitchens as a head coach, and that makes a massive, massive difference. No, you calling him average is short-sighted and that is putting it very generously. More to the point, it's ignorant and downright stupid.

 

[SteelersPride]

Burrow's numbers under pressure were the best from any QB prospect in ages.

did they top bakers, and bakers outside the pocket, legit asking because bakers numbers outside the pocket were the best ever

 

[dtgold88]

burrows completion percentage was buoyed by one year, you know that. it was 0.3 career over bakers......

View attachment 239148
I mean 2016 78.6 ,......he tossed it 28 times, 11 in 2017.....so we can effectively toss those

57.8 in 2018........and 76.3.....

So "arguably" the best in college football history....thats worth something......

and arguably the best in NFL history, is not?

I fail to keep seeing how bakers 2019 counts, but burrows 2018 doesnt.........

how burrows 2019 counts, bakers 2018 doesnt.......

Me, too, bro.....Baker just happened to have coaches who played to his strenghts in 2018, Burrow in 2019. He even said he might look at it differently if they switched and Baker had success in 2019 and Burrow in 2018.

 

[dtgold88]

I'm not saying 64% is bad, but it was below avg compared to the other QB's. I don't think any were ahead of him.

I don't know. I'm sure there have been. Dak off the top of my head was alot better than him.

Ok, first paragraph.....you want to judge Baker compared to guys who have been in the league, many for a long time and some are among the all time elite QBs?

Dak seems like a good answer as better. 1 better in the history of the sport.

 

[ericd7633]

Ok, first paragraph.....you want to judge Baker compared to guys who have been in the league, many for a long time and some are among the all time elite QBs?

Dak seems like a good answer as better. 1 better in the history of the sport.

I don't see why not? Compared to the other rookies he was amazing. Compared to other QB's he was average to slightly below it. Not a knock, just is what it is.

And if you want me to come up with others, I'd say Russell Wilson, RG3, Cam Newton, Luck, DeShaun Watson(prior to injury) Big Ben come to mind. Even guys like Jameis, Kyler Murray, Mariota, and Jones had similar production.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

It is hard to say what kind of pro Burrow will be, and situation matters, how he develops in the Bengals organization. However, coming out of college, I would have to say Burrow is a better overall prospect than Mayfield, even if Mayfield produced longer than Burrow had. Situation matters, style of offense matters and if it is playing to the QB's strengths, or if the offensive coordinator is so hard headed on whether the QB has to match his style, or if he is willing to rewrite his offense to suit his QB.

Is Joe Burrow The Most Efficient College QB Ever?

I think Burrow is a better teammate than Mayfield (doesn't throw guys under the bus like Mayfield has), and I think while he is confident like Mayfield, he is more humble. I think Burrow is a more natural leader with more charisma, and he is a bit taller that I like out of my NFL QB. 6'4" is a decent height. I think Mayfield can be a great QB with t he right offense around him, and he has proven he can be that in t he NFL, where Burrow has not yet. However, I think overall, I like Burrows intangibles coming out of college more than Mayfield. I also like to see that while Burrow was not great in his first year in LSU, he also got there late, didn't get to participate in offseason activities, he was learning a new playbook, teammates, etc. He was OKAY in that year. But you saw the growth in year 1 to year 2, and you see that he can improve and grow once he grasps the offense. He didn't just improve from year 1 to year 2, he shattered records with the same guys he had in year 1. They keeps saying all these guys that Burrow played with are loaded with pros, and while that is true, I think Burrow made them just as much of not more than they made Burrow.

Given the fact that Mayfield is in year 3 of his NFL career, and that Burrow hasn't taken a snap yet, warrants people saying Mayfield. However, if you are comparing t he 2 coming into the NFL draft, fresh off their Heisman Trophy's...I think Burrow is a better prospect coming out than Mayfield was. This is what you have to compare the two against each other, because Mayfield is an NFL QB, and Burrow is not yet. That is comparing apples to oranges. It is not a fair comparison.

Burrow Pros:
1) Greatest college season ever
2) SEC was his division (arguably the toughest division in college football)
3) Drastic improvement from year 1 to year 2 (can improve)
4) Hellacious leader with tons of charisma, very humble but confident.
5) Undefeated season with 7 wins over top 10 ranked teams (never been done).
6) Broke most college QB records (TD's, yards, etc.)
7) Greatest college QBR season while under pressure by like 40 points more than any other QB since 2011)

Burrow Cons:
1) Not awesome arm strength
2) Not most mobile QB
3) Older player coming out of college
4) Only 1 excellent season coming out of college

Mayfield Pros:
1) Highly decorated QB coming out of college
2) Competitive streak with confidence, plays with a chip
3) Can make all the throws, strong arm
4) Capable of being a good leader

Mayfield Cons:
1) Tendency to be too cocky and too outspoken
2) Height
3) Played in a weaker college conference


What did I miss pro/con wise for either guy COMING OUT OF COLLEGE?

 

[Wamu]

It is hard to say what kind of pro Burrow will be, and situation matters, how he develops in the Bengals organization. However, coming out of college, I would have to say Burrow is a better overall prospect than Mayfield, even if Mayfield produced longer than Burrow had. Situation matters, style of offense matters and if it is playing to the QB's strengths, or if the offensive coordinator is so hard headed on whether the QB has to match his style, or if he is willing to rewrite his offense to suit his QB.

Is Joe Burrow The Most Efficient College QB Ever?

I think Burrow is a better teammate than Mayfield (doesn't throw guys under the bus like Mayfield has), and I think while he is confident like Mayfield, he is more humble. I think Burrow is a more natural leader with more charisma, and he is a bit taller that I like out of my NFL QB. 6'4" is a decent height. I think Mayfield can be a great QB with t he right offense around him, and he has proven he can be that in t he NFL, where Burrow has not yet. However, I think overall, I like Burrows intangibles coming out of college more than Mayfield. I also like to see that while Burrow was not great in his first year in LSU, he also got there late, didn't get to participate in offseason activities, he was learning a new playbook, teammates, etc. He was OKAY in that year. But you saw the growth in year 1 to year 2, and you see that he can improve and grow once he grasps the offense. He didn't just improve from year 1 to year 2, he shattered records with the same guys he had in year 1. They keeps saying all these guys that Burrow played with are loaded with pros, and while that is true, I think Burrow made them just as much of not more than they made Burrow.

Given the fact that Mayfield is in year 3 of his NFL career, and that Burrow hasn't taken a snap yet, warrants people saying Mayfield. However, if you are comparing t he 2 coming into the NFL draft, fresh off their Heisman Trophy's...I think Burrow is a better prospect coming out than Mayfield was. This is what you have to compare the two against each other, because Mayfield is an NFL QB, and Burrow is not yet. That is comparing apples to oranges. It is not a fair comparison.

Burrow Pros:
1) Greatest college season ever
2) SEC was his division (arguably the toughest division in college football)
3) Drastic improvement from year 1 to year 2 (can improve)
4) Hellacious leader with tons of charisma, very humble but confident.
5) Undefeated season with 7 wins over top 10 ranked teams (never been done).
6) Broke most college QB records (TD's, yards, etc.)
7) Greatest college QBR season while under pressure by like 40 points more than any other QB since 2011)

Burrow Cons:
1) Not awesome arm strength
2) Not most mobile QB
3) Older player coming out of college
4) Only 1 excellent season coming out of college

Mayfield Pros:
1) Highly decorated QB coming out of college
2) Competitive streak with confidence, plays with a chip
3) Can make all the throws, strong arm
4) Capable of being a good leader

Mayfield Cons:
1) Tendency to be too cocky and too outspoken
2) Height
3) Played in a weaker college conference


What did I miss pro/con wise for either guy COMING OUT OF COLLEGE?

Burrow Pros:

He already said he doesn't like cincinnati chili. Smart kid.

Burrow Cons:

He'll be playing for the Bengals.



Mayfield Pros:

Freddie Kitchens is gone.

Mayfield Cons:

He's a jackass.

 

[dtgold88]

I don't see why not? Compared to the other rookies he was amazing. Compared to other QB's he was average to slightly below it. Not a knock, just is what it is.

And if you want me to come up with others, I'd say Russell Wilson, RG3, Cam Newton, Luck, DeShaun Watson(prior to injury) Big Ben come to mind. Even guys like Jameis, Kyler Murray, Mariota, and Jones had similar production.

He was a rookie so makes more sense to compare him to other rookies. Don't even need to take into account he went to an 0-16 team that had a midseason coaching change if you don't want to.

some of those are debatable as being better or the latter ones as similar, not sure I'd call any a lock as having a better season. BTW, Watson was injured and that has to be a factor (durability).

 

[dtgold88]

It is hard to say what kind of pro Burrow will be, and situation matters, how he develops in the Bengals organization. However, coming out of college, I would have to say Burrow is a better overall prospect than Mayfield, even if Mayfield produced longer than Burrow had. Situation matters, style of offense matters and if it is playing to the QB's strengths, or if the offensive coordinator is so hard headed on whether the QB has to match his style, or if he is willing to rewrite his offense to suit his QB.

Is Joe Burrow The Most Efficient College QB Ever?

I think Burrow is a better teammate than Mayfield (doesn't throw guys under the bus like Mayfield has), and I think while he is confident like Mayfield, he is more humble. I think Burrow is a more natural leader with more charisma, and he is a bit taller that I like out of my NFL QB. 6'4" is a decent height. I think Mayfield can be a great QB with t he right offense around him, and he has proven he can be that in t he NFL, where Burrow has not yet. However, I think overall, I like Burrows intangibles coming out of college more than Mayfield. I also like to see that while Burrow was not great in his first year in LSU, he also got there late, didn't get to participate in offseason activities, he was learning a new playbook, teammates, etc. He was OKAY in that year. But you saw the growth in year 1 to year 2, and you see that he can improve and grow once he grasps the offense. He didn't just improve from year 1 to year 2, he shattered records with the same guys he had in year 1. They keeps saying all these guys that Burrow played with are loaded with pros, and while that is true, I think Burrow made them just as much of not more than they made Burrow.

Given the fact that Mayfield is in year 3 of his NFL career, and that Burrow hasn't taken a snap yet, warrants people saying Mayfield. However, if you are comparing t he 2 coming into the NFL draft, fresh off their Heisman Trophy's...I think Burrow is a better prospect coming out than Mayfield was. This is what you have to compare the two against each other, because Mayfield is an NFL QB, and Burrow is not yet. That is comparing apples to oranges. It is not a fair comparison.

Burrow Pros:
1) Greatest college season ever
2) SEC was his division (arguably the toughest division in college football)
3) Drastic improvement from year 1 to year 2 (can improve)
4) Hellacious leader with tons of charisma, very humble but confident.
5) Undefeated season with 7 wins over top 10 ranked teams (never been done).
6) Broke most college QB records (TD's, yards, etc.)
7) Greatest college QBR season while under pressure by like 40 points more than any other QB since 2011)

Burrow Cons:
1) Not awesome arm strength
2) Not most mobile QB
3) Older player coming out of college
4) Only 1 excellent season coming out of college

Mayfield Pros:
1) Highly decorated QB coming out of college
2) Competitive streak with confidence, plays with a chip
3) Can make all the throws, strong arm
4) Capable of being a good leader

Mayfield Cons:
1) Tendency to be too cocky and too outspoken
2) Height
3) Played in a weaker college conference


What did I miss pro/con wise for either guy COMING OUT OF COLLEGE?

I'd call 2 and 3 for cons for Baker misleading or irrelevant. while it's true bigger QBs have a chance to be drafted high moreso than smaller ones, there is nothing to support that if a QB is worthy of going high in a draft he has a better chance to succeed if big as opposed to small. In fact, I'd bet the bigger QBs fail at a higher rate than smaller ones. Manziel is the only short QB I can think of who was taken high and failed. There are a number of big failures.

As for the conference, also not a con as what conference would you say is a good one to play in for a QB? Most QBs fail no matter which conference they played in.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

I'd call 2 and 3 for cons for Baker misleading or irrelevant. while it's true bigger QBs have a chance to be drafted high moreso than smaller ones, there is nothing to support that if a QB is worthy of going high in a draft he has a better chance to succeed if big as opposed to small. In fact, I'd bet the bigger QBs fail at a higher rate than smaller ones. Manziel is the only short QB I can think of who was taken high and failed. There are a number of big failures.

As for the conference, also not a con as what conference would you say is a good one to play in for a QB? Most QBs fail no matter which conference they played in.

The size thing doesn't matter as much, I mean we could ask Drew Brees, you are right, but if I had my druthers, I would RATHER have a taller QB when you have offensive lineman who are 6'7" 6'9" tall.

Conference isn't irrelevant in my opinion as it speaks to t he level of competition that player has to play against week in and week out. RECENT history suggests that the Big 12 is a much weaker conference than the SEC. I am not saying it is a major weakness of Mayfield, but I would say that Burrow was more battle hardened last year than Mayfield was in his more productive MULTI years at Oklahoma.

So what else do you see as CON's to Mayfield then, because I can't possibly see a guy with no weaknesses.

 

[dtgold88]

The size thing doesn't matter as much, I mean we could ask Drew Brees, you are right, but if I had my druthers, I would RATHER have a taller QB when you have offensive lineman who are 6'7" 6'9" tall.

Conference isn't irrelevant in my opinion as it speaks to t he level of competition that player has to play against week in and week out. RECENT history suggests that the Big 12 is a much weaker conference than the SEC. I am not saying it is a major weakness of Mayfield, but I would say that Burrow was more battle hardened last year than Mayfield was in his more productive MULTI years at Oklahoma.

So what else do you see as CON's to Mayfield then, because I can't possibly see a guy with no weaknesses.

Recent history suggests that? Mahomes looks like he might end up in the GOAT conversation if he keeps playing like he has. Tannehill a solid B12 QB. Baker looks like he could be a good one. We'll know after year 3. Murray looks pretty good. who are the SEC QBs who make the SEC so much better to find a franchise QB? The 3 considered elite for a long time were B10 (Brees and Brady and PAC (Rodgers). Big Ben was MAC. Wilson is BIG/ACC. Best current SEC QBs I can come up with are Dak and Stafford. Solid, but not on the level of the others.

and, yes, I get big QBs make it more often, but when they are graded to go in round 1, other than Manziel, can you name any small QB who was a bust? Seems way more likely to bust is the 6-6 or taller guy, in fact. when I hear big and big arm as top attribute I shy away. Give me smart and accurate.

Certainly not saying baker has no weaknesses. Only that height and conference are not weaknesses.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Recent history suggests that? Mahomes looks like he might end up in the GOAT conversation if he keeps playing like he has. Tannehill a solid B12 QB. Baker looks like he could be a good one. We'll know after year 3. Murray looks pretty good. who are the SEC QBs who make the SEC so much better to find a franchise QB? The 3 considered elite for a long time were B10 (Brees and Brady and PAC (Rodgers). Big Ben was MAC. Wilson is BIG/ACC. Best current SEC QBs I can come up with are Dak and Stafford. Solid, but not on the level of the others.

and, yes, I get big QBs make it more often, but when they are graded to go in round 1, other than Manziel, can you name any small QB who was a bust? Seems way more likely to bust is the 6-6 or taller guy, in fact. when I hear big and big arm as top attribute I shy away. Give me smart and accurate.

Certainly not saying baker has no weaknesses. Only that height and conference are not weaknesses.

Okay. I will go along with you, but what are you seeing as Baker's weaknesses besides Cheesecake?

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Baker had a 25 Wonderlic Score, which is slightly above average, with the median being 20ish I think?
Burrow had a 34 Wonderlic Score, well above average, but no where near Ryan Fitzpatrick's 48 out of 50, but then what else do you expect from a Harvard graduate? Positive or negative?

Tua had a 13, but so did Lamar Jackson. So I can see intelligence aging better than mobility.

So not only is Tua not very smart, but he is seriously injury prone also. Had a great career at Alabama, but I would rather take a chance on Burrow over Tua in the draft this year.

 

[ericd7633]

He was a rookie so makes more sense to compare him to other rookies. Don't even need to take into account he went to an 0-16 team that had a midseason coaching change if you don't want to.

some of those are debatable as being better or the latter ones as similar, not sure I'd call any a lock as having a better season. BTW, Watson was injured and that has to be a factor (durability).

Russell Wilson not a lock as a better rookie year? Lmao.

 

[Schmoopy1000]

Baker had a 25 Wonderlic Score, which is slightly above average, with the median being 20ish I think?
Burrow had a 34 Wonderlic Score, well above average, but no where near Ryan Fitzpatrick's 48 out of 50, but then what else do you expect from a Harvard graduate? Positive or negative?

Tua had a 13, but so did Lamar Jackson. So I can see intelligence aging better than mobility.

So not only is Tua not very smart, but he is seriously injury prone also. Had a great career at Alabama, but I would rather take a chance on Burrow over Tua in the draft this year.

so does this mean you are taking Baker?