Wins are not a QB stat...but here's one that is

[msgkings322]

Just putting this out there after 2 illustrative playoff games. Not even sure it's right, want to get some reactions

People like to say 'Lamar Jackson/Brock Purdy/Baker Mayfield/Tom Brady/etc' have x number of QB wins (especially in the playoffs). But winning a football game is the ultimate team effort, even when QBs have great games they probably did so because they had good weapons to throw to and a good line protecting them and a good defense giving them field position. That's why Jimmy G 'has' 5 playoff wins and Lamar Jackson now has 2. I think we can all agree who's the good QB in that pair.

However, I think you can rate QBs by late game winning drives (especially in the playoffs). Takes a whole team to win the game. But when there's 90 seconds left and you're down 4 with 2 timeouts, and your QB marches down there, keeps his shit together, and wins? That should count.

Thought of this obviously with Purdy tonight. And Love too...he had his shot to also have a drive like that, didn't work out this time. But, Lamar kind of goes the other way. He flat out won the game today, he was dominant, (looking at passing + running) that win was as much a QB win as possible.

Thoughts?

 

[Moab]

It takes a team to win a game, and damn good team to win a Lombardi. A good QB can lead the way, a bad one can kill a good team's chances. The real answer is probably somewhere in the middle. There are just too many players on the field to have that 1 guy make the "game". Some guys can dominate a game, but if the other 10 don't do their job, usually bad stuff happens. Especially at the NFL level.

To me, QBs get too much credit and too much blame.

 

[Battlelyon]

Thought of this obviously with Purdy tonight. And Love too...he had his shot to also have a drive like that, didn't work out this time. But, Lamar kind of goes the other way. He flat out won the game today, he was dominant, (looking at passing + running) that win was as much a QB win as possible.

Thoughts?

 

[Battlelyon]

It helps when the opponent doesn't score any points in the 4th quarter. Love loss the Packers the game.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Lamar won it by himself? The OL gave him 5+ seconds for most of the game. His RB’s were ripping off 8 yard runs. His defense shut down the Houston offense and running game. Lamar had a LOT of help.

 

[msgkings322]

Lamar won it by himself? The OL gave him 5+ seconds for most of the game. His RB’s were ripping off 8 yard runs. His defense shut down the Houston offense and running game. Lamar had a LOT of help.

I mean, that's kind of my point...Ravens D played great too, wins aren't QB stats, EVEN WITH a crazy dominant performance by Lamar.

Brock Purdy wasn't even the most important player on offense (CMC was). But when the chips were down he kept his composure and delivered. So the win isnt a QB stat... but I like how they keep of track of QBs' game winning drives late. That matters.

 

[blue_suns]

Scoring 4 TDs usually helps most teams win games
Lamar had next to no time in the pocket in the 1st half

 

[msgkings322]

People missing my point so I must not have been clear oh well

 

[broncosmitty]

I’m cool with Ws for QBs.

Just like I’m cool with Ws for SPs.

No issue with there being an obvious need for context either. Football yardage comes with that too.

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

The game winning drive thing can be a little skewed as well. Yes, I think it matters to some extent. Being clutch and having a cool head and not making mistakes in that final 2 minutes or whatever is a great attribute to have. But like with every statistic in every sports since forever, it all has to be taken into context with the overall picture. Russell Wilson made his entire career name based on late game heroics. Niner fans know this more than most as he often snatched victory from defeat from San Fran in his heyday. But he also played godawful for large stretches of games to get to that point. Case in point, the 2014 NFCCG vs Green Bay.
I don't think there is any one or two things about QB play that define whether a guy is great, good, average or bad. Just too many moving parts in the game and too many outside factors so for me, I look at the entire body of work and watch the guy play and let my opinion be based off that. I realize nowadays when a guy talks about passing the "eye test", people push back and call him old but the truth is you have to watch the entire thing to get a real picture. Statistics are nice for fantasy football and for agents to get their guys money and conversely, GMs to push back but as for actually playing sports, they don't really mean a lot.

 

[Stlducks]

Stats are like bikinis. They show a lot but not the good stuff. - Yogi

The only way to really judge a QB is by watching the games. Lamar was great yesterday, mostly as a runner, but previously he's been a bad playoff QB.

Purdy was bad yesterday until the GW drive but he's been fantastic for 14 games this season. And that was not his first "play bad but put a drive together" game. He did it in Cleveland but Moody missed the FG at the end.

Love on the other hand has played some very good games lately but I have not seen him come through in the clutch. He will eventually but now that will be the media bias against him.

 

[Clayton]

The last two minutes of the 1st and 2nd half have an increased mental stack on the QB, I'd imagine. The time limit starts removing options and when options become removed both teams play differently. Defenses know what you want to do. If anything, these moments are where roster depth shows up the most. Defenses should be tired at these points so a deep offensive roster should be able to exploit that.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

QB winz are just pitcher wins that get taken more seriously by their sports’ median fan.

Lamar was great yesterday, he was also living on e z street, imo. I think he should get credit for the efficient, even if not overly voluminous in terms of passing, outing.

 

[blue_suns]

QB winz are just pitcher wins that get taken more seriously by their sports’ median fan.

Lamar was great yesterday, he was also living on e z street, imo. I think he should get credit for the efficient, even if not overly voluminous in terms of passing, outing.

The game was put away early in the 4th. They ran it the rest of the game

Don't need to pass if you're up 3 TDs

 

[shopson67]

QB winz are just pitcher wins that get taken more seriously by their sports’ median fan.

Lamar was great yesterday, he was also living on e z street, imo. I think he should get credit for the efficient, even if not overly voluminous in terms of passing, outing.

Pitcher wins (at least back in the day when SPs were going deeper into games) are a much more telling stat IMO. The starting pitcher in those games can control the opponent's offense completely if he's on his game.

QB wins are a completely blind stat, as a team can win with rushing/defense that uses the QB essentially to just hand off and occasionally keep the defense honest.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Just putting this out there after 2 illustrative playoff games. Not even sure it's right, want to get some reactions

People like to say 'Lamar Jackson/Brock Purdy/Baker Mayfield/Tom Brady/etc' have x number of QB wins (especially in the playoffs). But winning a football game is the ultimate team effort, even when QBs have great games they probably did so because they had good weapons to throw to and a good line protecting them and a good defense giving them field position. That's why Jimmy G 'has' 5 playoff wins and Lamar Jackson now has 2. I think we can all agree who's the good QB in that pair.

However, I think you can rate QBs by late game winning drives (especially in the playoffs). Takes a whole team to win the game. But when there's 90 seconds left and you're down 4 with 2 timeouts, and your QB marches down there, keeps his shit together, and wins? That should count.

Thought of this obviously with Purdy tonight. And Love too...he had his shot to also have a drive like that, didn't work out this time. But, Lamar kind of goes the other way. He flat out won the game today, he was dominant, (looking at passing + running) that win was as much a QB win as possible.

Thoughts?

lamar chokes on peen

 

[DJ Fieri]

W/L record is so overrated for a QB.

Trent Dilfer won a SB with the Ravens.

End of discussion.

 

[Yankee Traveler]

Just putting this out there after 2 illustrative playoff games. Not even sure it's right, want to get some reactions

People like to say 'Lamar Jackson/Brock Purdy/Baker Mayfield/Tom Brady/etc' have x number of QB wins (especially in the playoffs). But winning a football game is the ultimate team effort, even when QBs have great games they probably did so because they had good weapons to throw to and a good line protecting them and a good defense giving them field position. That's why Jimmy G 'has' 5 playoff wins and Lamar Jackson now has 2. I think we can all agree who's the good QB in that pair.

However, I think you can rate QBs by late game winning drives (especially in the playoffs). Takes a whole team to win the game. But when there's 90 seconds left and you're down 4 with 2 timeouts, and your QB marches down there, keeps his shit together, and wins? That should count.

Thought of this obviously with Purdy tonight. And Love too...he had his shot to also have a drive like that, didn't work out this time. But, Lamar kind of goes the other way. He flat out won the game today, he was dominant, (looking at passing + running) that win was as much a QB win as possible.

Thoughts?

Look at the Edelman catch against the Falcons. Without that one non QB play, they lose.
Look at Jason McCourty absolutely STREAKING (in uniform...) across the field to save the TD by Cooks against the Rams. That TD would have changed the game.
There are thousands of plays that influence each game, and hundreds by defense or ST that make the game.

Team Sport.
Soccer or hockey goalie, QB. They are the most important positions in their team sports.

 

[socaljim242]

Read something the other day. The last 14 QBs to start their first QB and lose ,have never made it back to the super bowl.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

Read something the other day. The last 14 QBs to start their first QB and lose ,have never made it back to the super bowl.