Why Magic > LeBron

[tlance]

I would 1000% much rather have the shot taken by someone who has been in the situation. I couldn't care less what Korver's stats are on open looks from 3. As you can see -- he is shooting 25% from 3 in the finals right now. The further you get in the playoffs, the more pressure you deal with.

I'd give up a 23 foot shot with NBA finals pressure on ANY shooter over Lebron on a dribble drive, if you desperately need a basket with time winding down and the season on the line.

If Lebron wants to defer at the end of the game to bench players -- stop with the King James talk. He is paid to put the team on his back and take the pressure shots. Many more times than not -- he is deferring in these situations and it is absurd.

If you want to trust your teammates in the first 3 quarters -- I completely understand. Don't put the biggest shot of the season on the shoulders of a guy who has never been in the situation. The NBA finals isn't the time to see how he holds up under pressure.

And once again -- Green had FIVE FOULS. If Lebron takes him to the basket, he is going to get either a good look or draw a foul. Lebron started to drive and then looked as if he already had his mind made up he was dishing it off. It is as if he is afraid to take the shot at the end of the game. I don't get it. Prior to game 4, which I didn't get to watch any of, Lebron had 11 total points combined in the 4th quarter of the first 3 games. That is unacceptable.

Trust me, you are wrong.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Trust me, you are wrong.

Well I'd have to say the Golden State Warriors agree with me. They left Korver by himself. If what you said had any truth to it -- that Lebron driving on Green was a 30% success rate -- there'd be no chance they would leave Korver alone to collapse the paint -- since Korver is a 60% success rate.

The reality of the situation is -- you will take a player inexperienced in pressure situations taking a must make shot at the End of a NBA finals game ALL DAY LONG. It is not surprising he short armed it.

 

[tlance]

Well I'd have to say the Golden State Warriors agree with me. They left Korver by himself. If what you said had any truth to it -- that Lebron driving on Green was a 30% success rate -- there'd be no chance they would leave Korver alone to collapse the paint -- since Korver is a 60% success rate.

The reality of the situation is -- you will take a player inexperienced in pressure situations taking a must make shot at the End of a NBA finals game ALL DAY LONG. It is not surprising he short armed it.

Not true.

The reason the shot wasn't open for LeBron was because the defense collapsed. If it were 1 on 1, LeBron shoots and the percentages would have been more in his favor. That is the dilemma he puts the defense in. KD was preventing LeBron from turning the corner and green was there to contest the pull up.

But, I guarantee that Kerr would have preferred LeBron try to shoot over 2 defenders than pass to an open Korver. That I am 100% certain of. Problem is, you can't both stay home on shooters and provide help to stop LeBron.

What you are failing to grasp is that the defense DID collapse on LeBron. You are saying he should have forced the shot anyway. Kerr would have loved it if LeBron made that choice.

 

[black francis]

Except that scoring and pace of play where actually higher in Magic's era.

and three point shots have gone from a gimmick to the most important shot of the game
no wonder scoring is down. there is no more post play everybody thinks they can shoot from 25 feet
LeBron would dominate the paint if he wasnt so concerned with making his teammates happy. He'd probably have more rings too, if he was more passionate about winning

 

[black francis]

I would 1000% much rather have the shot taken by someone who has been in the situation. I couldn't care less what Korver's stats are on open looks from 3. As you can see -- he is shooting 25% from 3 in the finals right now. The further you get in the playoffs, the more pressure you deal with.

I'd give up a 23 foot shot with NBA finals pressure on ANY shooter over Lebron on a dribble drive, if you desperately need a basket with time winding down and the season on the line.

If Lebron wants to defer at the end of the game to bench players -- stop with the King James talk. He is paid to put the team on his back and take the pressure shots. Many more times than not -- he is deferring in these situations and it is absurd.

If you want to trust your teammates in the first 3 quarters -- I completely understand. Don't put the biggest shot of the season on the shoulders of a guy who has never been in the situation. The NBA finals isn't the time to see how he holds up under pressure.

And once again -- Green had FIVE FOULS. If Lebron takes him to the basket, he is going to get either a good look or draw a foul. Lebron started to drive and then looked as if he already had his mind made up he was dishing it off. It is as if he is afraid to take the shot at the end of the game. I don't get it. Prior to game 4, which I didn't get to watch any of, Lebron had 11 total points combined in the 4th quarter of the first 3 games. That is unacceptable.

Trust me, he is right

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Not true.

The reason the shot wasn't open for LeBron was because the defense collapsed. If it were 1 on 1, LeBron shoots and the percentages would have been more in his favor. That is the dilemma he puts the defense in. KD was preventing LeBron from turning the corner and green was there to contest the pull up.

But, I guarantee that Kerr would have preferred LeBron try to shoot over 2 defenders than pass to an open Korver. That I am 100% certain of. Problem is, you can't both stay home on shooters and provide help to stop LeBron.

What you are failing to grasp is that the defense DID collapse on LeBron. You are saying he should have forced the shot anyway. Kerr would have loved it if LeBron made that choice.

Go watch the replay again. Lebron was peeling out of the paint before anyone collapsed on him. The talk of two guys covering is ridiculous. Watch the video -- Durant barely moves from the block. James could have easily pulled up in the lane for a shot.

And I disagree -- If you asked Kerr if he'd rather James taking a pull up in the lane or Korver shooting a 3 at the end of the game. He'd choose Korver taking the 3 100 times out of 100.

 

[tlance]

and three point shots have gone from a gimmick to the most important shot of the game
no wonder scoring is down. there is no more post play everybody thinks they can shoot from 25 feet
LeBron would dominate the paint if he wasnt so concerned with making his teammates happy. He'd probably have more rings too, if he was more passionate about winning

Wrong again.

Efficiency is at an all time high BECAUSE of the 3 point shot and the floor spacing that results. In the 80s, teams really only had to defend 18 feet and in because the 3 pointer was seldom used. Today, you have to guard 28 feet out. That makes the game much harder for the defense.

Scoring is down because the pace is a bit slower.

 

[tlance]

Go watch the replay again. Lebron was peeling out of the paint before anyone collapsed on him. The talk of two guys covering is ridiculous. Watch the video -- Durant barely moves from the block. James could have easily pulled up in the lane for a shot.

And I disagree -- If you asked Kerr if he'd rather James taking a pull up in the lane or Korver shooting a 3 at the end of the game. He'd choose Korver taking the 3 100 times out of 100.

Go ahead and ask him then.

But again, your continued insistence shows a lack of understanding about the Warriors style of play. They use the 3 point line as a weapon offensively and defend it as well as anybody defensively. That is why they are are the best team. Analytics are at the core of everything the Warriors do, and analytics say LeBron made the right play. I would bet anything Kerr would agree.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Go ahead and ask him then.

But again, your continued insistence shows a lack of understanding about the Warriors style of play. They use the 3 point line as a weapon offensively and defend it as well as anybody defensively. That is why they are are the best team. Analytics are at the core of everything the Warriors do, and analytics say LeBron made the right play. I would bet anything Kerr would agree.

Tell me what analytics says about a guy off the bench in his first NBA finals in a must win game with under a minute to go taking the shot, over the guy who has been in the NBA finals 7 years in a row and has been in these situations many times?

And your continued insistence of talking analytics shows a lack of understanding on how much pressure and experience plays a role in end of game situations. The best of the best are the players who can handle the suffocating pressure at the end of games. As you finally admitted -- the 59% shooting Korver is 0% in end of game situations in the NBA playoffs/finals.

 

[msgkings322]

Wrong again.

Efficiency is at an all time high BECAUSE of the 3 point shot and the floor spacing that results. In the 80s, teams really only had to defend 18 feet and in because the 3 pointer was seldom used. Today, you have to guard 28 feet out. That makes the game much harder for the defense.

Scoring is down because the pace is a bit slower.

Scoring is also down because teams play defense, most didn't in the 80s.

 

[msgkings322]

Tell me what analytics says about a guy off the bench in his first NBA finals in a must win game with under a minute to go taking the shot, over the guy who has been in the NBA finals 7 years in a row and has been in these situations many times?

And your continued insistence of talking analytics shows a lack of understanding on how much pressure and experience plays a role in end of game situations. The best of the best are the players who can handle the suffocating pressure at the end of games. As you finally admitted -- the 59% shooting Korver is 0% in end of game situations in the NBA playoffs/finals.

Even St. Michael used to make that play, because Phil Jackson got him to realize it's the right play:

https://theringer.com/the-jordan-ru...ith-michael-jordan-chicago-bulls-48b12d6d3e15

 

[tlance]

Tell me what analytics says about a guy off the bench in his first NBA finals in a must win game with under a minute to go taking the shot, over the guy who has been in the NBA finals 7 years in a row and has been in these situations many times?

And your continued insistence of talking analytics shows a lack of understanding on how much pressure and experience plays a role in end of game situations. The best of the best are the players who can handle the suffocating pressure at the end of games. As you finally admitted -- the 59% shooting Korver is 0% in end of game situations in the NBA playoffs/finals.

I know. I have been in them. I have taken that shot at least a dozen times in the last minute of a close game. Not in the NBA Finals, obviously, but once you have taken that shot on any stage you have the necessary experience. Like I said before, you don't even have time to think or to be nervous on a catch and shoot play. I know because I have done it. You are reacting and trusting muscle memory. Making a free throw is much harder mentally.

Kerr hadn't been in that scenario either until he was in it. He responded just fine. I understand completely what you are saying, but that does not make you right.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

I know. I have been in them. I have taken that shot at least a dozen times in the last minute of a close game. Not in the NBA Finals, obviously, but once you have taken that shot on any stage you have the necessary experience. Like I said before, you don't even have time to think or to be nervous on a catch and shoot play. I know because I have done it. You are reacting and trusting muscle memory. Making a free throw is much harder mentally.

Kerr hadn't been in that scenario either until he was in it. He responded just fine. I understand completely what you are saying, but that does not make you right.

I can stop this talk now. If your example is 'you've taken a shot in the last minute a dozen times' and the NBA finals would be no different -- I'm sorry but that is absolutely ridiculous. That's like saying I've hit a 90 mph pitch a dozen times in a batting cage, so I'm qualified to face Clayton Kershaw with 2 outs and the tying run on 2nd in the bottom of the 9th of the World Series. Or saying, I've made 1000 6 foot putts, so your qualified for making a 6 foot putt on the 18th hole of the Masters to force sudden death.

 

[tlance]

I can stop this talk now. If your example is 'you've taken a shot in the last minute a dozen times' and the NBA finals would be no different -- I'm sorry but that is absolutely ridiculous. That's like saying I've hit a 90 mph pitch a dozen times in a batting cage, so I'm qualified to face Clayton Kershaw with 2 outs and the tying run on 2nd in the bottom of the 9th of the World Series. Or saying, I've made 1000 6 foot putts, so your qualified for making a 6 foot putt on the 18th hole of the Masters to force sudden death.

Here is why it is relevant. Because it felt no different to me at all.

I have also heard players take about performing in big moments of big moments of big games and most say they are completely unaware of the magnitude while the play is flowing. They are simply out there hooping. That was my experience too, albeit at a much lower level.

Now, your Kershaw AB and 6 foot putt situations are completely different because there is time to think before the action and pressure mounts in those moments. Especially in the golf analogy. Making that putt is more like making the free throw which I said is mentally difficult.

But again, continue to be wrong if you want.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Here is why it is relevant. Because it felt no different to me at all.

I have also heard players take about performing in big moments of big moments of big games and most say they are completely unaware of the magnitude while the play is flowing. They are simply out there hooping. That was my experience too, albeit at a much lower level.

Now, your Kershaw AB and 6 foot putt situations are completely different because there is time to think before the action and pressure mounts in those moments. Especially in the golf analogy. Making that putt is more like making the free throw which I said is mentally difficult.

But again, continue to be wrong if you want.

You realize how absurd it is to try and put yourself into the conversation. Your personal experience in meaningless elementary or high school games has absolutely zero bearing on a NBA final game.

So you can continue to pretend you are right, because 'you've take those shots a dozen times' but it is laughable you even made the comment. Using your logic, Kyle Korver should have dozens and dozens of game winning shots for all to see, because pressure has no bearing on game winning shots -- so he should be option A on every team he plays on.

 

[tlance]

You realize how absurd it is to try and put yourself into the conversation. Your personal experience in meaningless elementary or high school games has absolutely zero bearing on a NBA final game.

So you can continue to pretend you are right, because 'you've take those shots a dozen times' but it is laughable you even made the comment. Using your logic, Kyle Korver should have dozens and dozens of game winning shots for all to see, because pressure has no bearing on game winning shots -- so he should be option A on every team he plays on.

You still don't get it. Not going to waste any more time. I have heard NBA players say the same. You don't think about the situation because there literally isn't time to. The play happens too fast.

You claim I am making light of the situation, well you are making far too much of it. A player either trusts his teammates or he doesn't. LeBron trusts his. He stuck by his decision and he knows a hell of a lot more than You do. I will leave it at that.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

You still don't get it. Not going to waste any more time. I have heard NBA players say the same. You don't think about the situation because there literally isn't time to. The play happens too fast.

You claim I am making light of the situation, well you are making far too much of it. A player either trusts his teammates or he doesn't. LeBron trusts his. He stuck by his decision and he knows a hell of a lot more than You do. I will leave it at that.

Maybe Lebron should try not trusting his teammates at the end of games or the 4th quarter, in general -- his record of 17-26 (could be off a game one way or the other) in the NBA finals could be better.

And he stuck by his decision because he has no other choice. He isn't going to throw a teammate under the bus in the NBA finals when they still have games to play.

I still stand by my comment that no one collapsed on him on that drive. He started bailing out on the drive as soon as he went left. He could have pulled up for a jumper in the lane without a problem, especially with a guy who has 5 fouls on him.

I think Lebron is a tremendous player, but too many times he disappears late in games. How can a guy with his talent have 11 points total in the 4th quarter thru 3 games?

 

[Wamu]

You still don't get it. Not going to waste any more time. I have heard NBA players say the same. You don't think about the situation because there literally isn't time to. The play happens too fast.

You claim I am making light of the situation, well you are making far too much of it. A player either trusts his teammates or he doesn't. LeBron trusts his. He stuck by his decision and he knows a hell of a lot more than You do. I will leave it at that.

You're going back & forth w/ someone that thinks Jim Harbaugh's a better CFB coach than Nick Saban because Jimmy Jam played in the NFL & had more success in the NFL as a HC. He lives in an odd fantasy world. trustmeimwrong also believes the Earth is flat.

 

[black francis]

"I once beat off to Kate Upton, so I have practically fucked her."
-tlance

 

[tlance]

"I once beat off to Kate Upton, so I have practically fucked her."
-tlance

That is funny. I will give you some credit there. Might be your first good post on this entire thread.