Why Magic > LeBron

[trojanfan12]

Who hear would give up maybe 15 million in a long term contract for "the sake of winning". I wouldn't. That's just stupid.

How much have I made before I give up that money and how much am I going to make?

 

[trojanfan12]

That's not an uncommon criticism of LeBron, but its strange to hear it in the context of Magic vs LeBron. Magic wasn't Kobe, either. He was a playmaker above all else, which is similar to how I see LeBron.

Magic also played his career alongside another top-3 players.

I think that where the criticism comes from is that Magic was a PG and was expected to pass the ball, be a playmaker, etc. Magic was unconventional because of his size, but he was still doing what's expected of a PG.

Lebron is an SF who plays like a PG. Not only does his size make him somewhat unconventional for his position, but so does his style. We are used to seeing SF's be score first type players and that's not how Lebron plays. If Lebron had come in as a PG, I don't think we'd see near the criticism that we do and we'd see a lot more Lebron vs. Magic debates than Lebron vs. MJ.

 

[black francis]

Definitely not a champion's mentality

"If I could have the play over again, I would come off a screen situation. Draymond [Green] would switch on me with five fouls. I would get him leaning. I would drive left. I would see [Durant] step up. I would seeStephen Curry drop on Kevin [Love]. And I would see Kyle Korver in the corner, one of the greatest 3-point shooters in this league's history, and give him an opportunity in the short corner," James said, explaining what he saw on the play.


Kobe's mentality - "give me the fucking ball. Go stand in the corner somewhere and get ready to play defense"

kobe > "The King"

 

[jon2tanman]

Funny thing is, Kareem was the real mvp of the series. In fact MJ tried to give Kareem the mvp trophy.

 

[jon2tanman]

NBA & ABA Career Leaders and Records for Win Shares | Basketball-Reference.com
The real GOAT!!!!!!!

 

[black francis]

Funny thing is, Kareem was the real mvp of the series. In fact MJ tried to give Kareem the mvp trophy.

You wouldn't see the guy from the Cavaliers do such a selfless act.

 

[R.J. MacReady]

Lebron controls what this team does more than the coach.

Lebron has full control of the pace of these games and he is taking his fast paced game to a team that has great depth. Lebron is doing exactly what the opposing team would pray he would do.

So while the warriors starters are resting ...Lebron is getting tired.
So when people say "Lebron can't do everything"

Remember ..it's Lebron who is using the strategy that is suicide.

 

[Great Dayne]

All I seen from this was DR J making a career ending dunk over Tragic.

 

[RobBase]

Jordan, Magic, about 11 or 12 others from the 80's-90's then Lebron if were talking all time.

 

[msgkings322]

How much have I made before I give up that money and how much am I going to make?

Exactly, Plus after taxes and your agent's cut $15 mil is about $7 mil

 

[BPNAZ]

And this thread sure got quiet fast

 

[tlance]

different players

they played defense in the 80's. Magic was a playmaker, not a scorer

Without Magic, LeBron is a bouncer at a nightclub

Look, I think the Magic vs. LeBron argument is close. Personally I think LeBron is better, but whatever.

LOL at the notion that they played defense in the 80s, but not today. Teams averaged about 5 points more per game throughout the 80s than they do now. Pace of play is finally coming back close to what it was back then, that is why scoring is back up. Also, offenses are more efficient than ever because of their use of the 3 point line to space the floor. eFG% was an all time high .514% this past season.

 

[tlance]

I think that where the criticism comes from is that Magic was a PG and was expected to pass the ball, be a playmaker, etc. Magic was unconventional because of his size, but he was still doing what's expected of a PG.

Lebron is an SF who plays like a PG. Not only does his size make him somewhat unconventional for his position, but so does his style. We are used to seeing SF's be score first type players and that's not how Lebron plays. If Lebron had come in as a PG, I don't think we'd see near the criticism that we do and we'd see a lot more Lebron vs. Magic debates than Lebron vs. MJ.

I agree with this.

Also, this is why people need to alter their expectations. The Cavs "PG" is a pure scorer who does not really facilitate much at all. LeBron is the PG for the Cavs even though he is listed at SF. The offenses flows through him. He is the playmaker and Kyrie plays more like a traditional scoring guard.

If Magic makes that pass to Byron Scott nobody thinks twice. Well, Korver is a better shooter than Scott.

 

[black francis]

I agree with this.

Also, this is why people need to alter their expectations. The Cavs "PG" is a pure scorer who does not really facilitate much at all. LeBron is the PG for the Cavs even though he is listed at SF. The offenses flows through him. He is the playmaker and Kyrie plays more like a traditional scoring guard.

If Magic makes that pass to Byron Scott nobody thinks twice. Well, Korver is a better shooter than Scott.

Scott also averaged 2 3p attempts per game over his career. Now, the games is threes, dunks and layups.

Magic would average a triple double in multiple seasons if he played today.

If Scott played today, he might be a 3P specialist like Korver

 

[black francis]

And this thread sure got quiet fast

Mostly because it's Saturday morning and people have shit to do

 

[tlance]

word

fucking guy shoots 37% from 3.

lebron shoots about 85% on layups

awful decision by "the King"

Do you actually watch basketball?

LeBron was being guarded by the best defender in the league and KD was right there too ready to contest a shot. His best hope in that situation was to draw a foul, because he wasn't finishing that shot more than 3 of 10 times. It wasn't anywhere close to a layup, and Draymond Green is literally the best in the league at defending those plays. Either he or KD blocks the shot as often as LeBron finishes it.

Korver, on the other hand is 59% for his career on open shots from the corner 3. It was the right play.

 

[tlance]

Scott also averaged 2 3p attempts per game over his career. Now, the games is threes, dunks and layups.

Magic would average a triple double in multiple seasons if he played today.

If Scott played today, he might be a 3P specialist like Korver

Except that scoring and pace of play where actually higher in Magic's era.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Do you actually watch basketball?

LeBron was being guarded by the best defender in the league and KD was right there too ready to contest a shot. His best hope in that situation was to draw a foul, because he wasn't finishing that shot more than 3 of 10 times. It wasn't anywhere close to a layup, and Draymond Green is literally the best in the league at defending those plays. Either he or KD blocks the shot as often as LeBron finishes it.

Korver, on the other hand is 59% for his career on open shots from the corner 3. It was the right play.

You keep saying he was defended by Draymond, but continue to leave out, Draymond had 5 fouls. And saying he wouldn't finish that shot 3 of 10 times is ridiculous.

And you STILL haven't responded to how many game winning shots Korver has taken in a NBA finals game or even a playoff game, in general. Spewing stats from the regular season is fine, but what stats don't take into account is the pressure and magnitude of each play.

If you want to say it was the correct play -- I can agree. Was it the right play in that situation? No. Lebron should be the guy taking the shot. If he is just going to pass it off like he did -- put the ball in Kyrie's hands and let him create a shot.

 

[tlance]

You keep saying he was defended by Draymond, but continue to leave out, Draymond had 5 fouls. And saying he wouldn't finish that shot 3 of 10 times is ridiculous.

And you STILL haven't responded to how many game winning shots Korver has taken in a NBA finals game or even a playoff game, in general. Spewing stats from the regular season is fine, but what stats don't take into account is the pressure and magnitude of each play.

If you want to say it was the correct play -- I can agree. Was it the right play in that situation? No. Lebron should be the guy taking the shot. If he is just going to pass it off like he did -- put the ball in Kyrie's hands and let him create a shot.

Korver has never been in that situation. But, like others have said, he has made plenty of big shots over his career. Are you really saying that you wouldn't trust a great shooter in that situation because it is his first Finals trip?

All great shooters have 1 thing in common. Confidence. You can't be a great shooter without it. A guy like Kyle Korver is not going to be scared of the moment. The shot looked good, it just hit the front rim. If he shot the ball 1 inch further, it goes in and we aren't having this discussion.

Playing hero ball at the end of games is not the right way to play. You want to get the best shot possible. Stats show clearly that contested mid range/short range shots are the worst in basketball by percentage. LeBron's job is to create the best shot for his team. He did that.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Korver has never been in that situation. But, like others have said, he has made plenty of big shots over his career. Are you really saying that you wouldn't trust a great shooter in that situation because it is his first Finals trip?

All great shooters have 1 thing in common. Confidence. You can't be a great shooter without it. A guy like Kyle Korver is not going to be scared of the moment. The shot looked good, it just hit the front rim. If he shot the ball 1 inch further, it goes in and we aren't having this discussion.

Playing hero ball at the end of games is not the right way to play. You want to get the best shot possible. Stats show clearly that contested mid range/short range shots are the worst in basketball by percentage. LeBron's job is to create the best shot for his team. He did that.

I would 1000% much rather have the shot taken by someone who has been in the situation. I couldn't care less what Korver's stats are on open looks from 3. As you can see -- he is shooting 25% from 3 in the finals right now. The further you get in the playoffs, the more pressure you deal with.

I'd give up a 23 foot shot with NBA finals pressure on ANY shooter over Lebron on a dribble drive, if you desperately need a basket with time winding down and the season on the line.

If Lebron wants to defer at the end of the game to bench players -- stop with the King James talk. He is paid to put the team on his back and take the pressure shots. Many more times than not -- he is deferring in these situations and it is absurd.

If you want to trust your teammates in the first 3 quarters -- I completely understand. Don't put the biggest shot of the season on the shoulders of a guy who has never been in the situation. The NBA finals isn't the time to see how he holds up under pressure.

And once again -- Green had FIVE FOULS. If Lebron takes him to the basket, he is going to get either a good look or draw a foul. Lebron started to drive and then looked as if he already had his mind made up he was dishing it off. It is as if he is afraid to take the shot at the end of the game. I don't get it. Prior to game 4, which I didn't get to watch any of, Lebron had 11 total points combined in the 4th quarter of the first 3 games. That is unacceptable.