Why is it that...

[HurricaneDij39]

Why is it that the fairweather idiots that idolize LeBron James also idolize Pippen and the 1994 Bulls? These shortsighted folks are quick to defend LeBron by saying Jordan had another Top 10 All-time player in Pippen by his side. LOL

Using some actual research, Pippen was a borderline All-Star for the majority of his career. In Scottie's 17-year career, he was an All-Star just seven times. If you're going to glorify a borderline All-Star for being one of the greatest ever, you might as well also include Reggie Miller in your Top 10 list of all-time.

Scottie Pippen was a seven-time All-Star.

Reggie Miller was a five-time All-Star.

Chris Bosh is an eight-time All-Star.

NONE of these guys should be argued when discussing the Top 10-20 players of all-time.

Bottom line here - Don't discredit Michael Jordan for wanting to get the most out of his teammates.

You don't have to know basketball to know LeBron doesn't make anyone around him better. The only guys that even comes close to filling this bill is Big Z, but I still don't think anyone is going to mistake him for being a product of LeBron James. With the exception of FG percentage (whoop-dee-doo), just about everyone who's played with LeBron has seen both their stats and their effectiveness plummet during that time frame.

I dare you to dispute that.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

"You don't have to know basketball to know LeBron doesn't make anyone around him better. The only guys that even comes close to filling this bill is Big Z, but I still don't think anyone is going to mistake him for being a product of LeBron James. With the exception of FG percentage (whoop-dee-doo), just about everyone who's played with LeBron has seen both their stats and their effectiveness plummet during that time frame.

I dare you to dispute that"


Pure crazy talk. The Heat has a roster full of veterans who couldn't care less about individual stats. It is all about WINNING.

James is the LEAST selfish superstar that I have ever seen.
He is happier getting an assist then a FG.
His presence alone leads to wide open shots for the 3 point shooters.
No disputing that, if you can't dispute that, then he automatically has just made them better.

 

[trojanfan12]

I'm no fan of Lebron, but to claim he doesn't make other players better because production of the other star players around him decreases doesn't make sense.

When you have superstars on a team, other players production will typically decrease because they don't have to all of the heavy lifting anymore.

Case in point, yes D-Wade and Bosh have seen a decrease in their production by playing with Lebron. However, Lebron is also averaging fewer ppg than he did in any season in Cleveland other than his rookie season.

The reason all 3 are averaging fewer points is because they are no longer doing all of the heavy lifting like they were before they joined together.

Basically, they have decreased individual production in order to win more games by increasing the team production.

 

[bksballer89]

Lebron doesn't make players around him? LMAO joke of the day.

BTW D-Wade 3 best shooting % years of his career all game with LBJ on his team but yeah LBJ doesn't make player better.

As for Chris Bosh.....He only had his best shooting year ever this year.

As Trojan said when you have other stars/superstars on a team the others numbers will go down because they're no longer the #1 option.

Bosh no longer gets 16 shots per game as he did in Toronto as he now only gets 13 or 14. Wade no longer gets 18-20 shots per game as he now get 16 or so. This year was the fewest shots per game since his rookie year and last year is tied for his 3rd fewest shots per game

Saying Lebron doesn't make players around him shows a lack of basketball knowledge.

I get it though....You hate Lebron

Nice to see you're not going to honor the bet btw

 

[True Lakers Fan]

I have to disagree with you Hurricane and while I don't idolize any player, I do have some deep respect for Scottie Pippen's game. It takes a really especially talented player that is willing to sacrifice his stats in ppg, rpg and apg to do the grunt work that leads to championships. Pippen was a leader in every way and truly did everything. Truthfully I never even really knew his game until he led the Trailblazers to the Western Conference Finals against the Lakers two years straight and I am sorry, but Pippen was every bit as good then as Lebron is now. The stats just don't do justify to his games

 

[HurricaneDij39]

I'm no fan of Lebron, but to claim he doesn't make other players better because production of the other star players around him decreases doesn't make sense.

...And my point is, LeBron's fans like to punish Jordan for trying to bring the most out of his teammates (Pippen and others). LeBron showed willingness to help his teammates become better players. Let's face it, Wade and Bosh were already finished products when LeBron joined them in attempt to win titles the easy way.

Jordan played in an era where you had to make your teammates better. Today's league is rather individual-oriented. It can be taken both as a good thing and a bad thing, but let's not punish Jordan for trying to make the most of his teammates. One could say LeBron would rather have an assist than a FG, but he could just as easily be looking to pad his individual assist numbers.

Again, you can't name ONE player that was better off for playing with LeBron James.

 

[True Lakers Fan]

...And my point is, LeBron's fans like to punish Jordan for trying to bring the most out of his teammates (Pippen and others). LeBron showed willingness to help his teammates become better players. Let's face it, Wade and Bosh were already finished products when LeBron joined them in attempt to win titles the easy way.

Jordan played in an era where you had to make your teammates better. Today's league is rather individual-oriented. It can be taken both as a good thing and a bad thing, but let's not punish Jordan for trying to make the most of his teammates. One could say LeBron would rather have an assist than a FG, but he could just as easily be looking to pad his individual assist numbers.

Again, you can't name ONE player that was better off for playing with LeBron James.

I don't think anyone is trying to punish Michael Jordan for the talent he had on that team. What is happening is the Lebron kids/fans aren't old enough to have seen or remember what Michael Jordan accomplished on the court. As a result they think Michael Jordan is the first and last, alpha and omega in basketball. The younger generation did that with Kobe a decade ago and they did that with Madonna in her prime as they did with Michael Jackson even though he was a child molester. It's just what young people od

 

[HurricaneDij39]

BTW D-Wade 3 best shooting % years of his career all game with LBJ on his team but yeah LBJ doesn't make player better.

As for Chris Bosh.....He only had his best shooting year ever this year.

So, Wade and Bosh only became elite players once LeBron arrived?

 

[bksballer89]

Name 1 superstar who won a title on his own? Say what you want about Pippen he is a HOF that Jordan got to play with for his entire career.

The fact that you're still crying about LBJ going to Miami 3 years later is comical.

Pretty much every superstar who won a title had another star/superstar on their team who ended up being a HOF

Last I check the goal of playing professional sports is to win championships. So if he went to Miami to play with Wade to improve his chances of winning a title....Who cares?

 

[HurricaneDij39]

TLF,

I agree the Scottie Pippen was a great player in his own right, but let's not pretend one could build a dynasty around him. There's a reason the Bulls started to rebuild the team after Jordan's first retirement in 1993. They even considered trading Pippen for Shawn Kemp in order to make up for the interior presence left by Horace Grant's departure.

 

[True Lakers Fan]

TLF,

I agree the Scottie Pippen was a great player in his own right, but let's not pretend one could build a dynasty around him. There's a reason the Bulls started to rebuild the team after Jordan's first retirement in 1993. They even considered trading Pippen for Shawn Kemp in order to make up for the interior presence left by Horace Grant's departure.

You obviously didn't see what he did in Portland - The only reason that team didn't win is because the Lakers had the best coach and they had Adleman. Portland went down to less then 12 minutes with a 14 point or so lead and half of the stadium had emptied out and went home thinking the series was over. The Lakers made a miraculous come back and won. Pippen was that good of a leader. He just didn't have the right player to complement that team

 

[HurricaneDij39]

Name 1 superstar who won a title on his own? Say what you want about Pippen he is a HOF that Jordan got to play with for his entire career.

Jordan made guys around him (Pippen) better. LeBron did not. Case and point.

Crying? Look around you. LeBron is going to have people crticizing his signing in Miami until the day he retires. That's just how it's going to be.

 

[bksballer89]

Jordan made guys around him (Pippen) better. LeBron did not. Case and point.

Crying? Look around you. LeBron is going to have people crticizing his signing in Miami until the day he retires. That's just how it's going to be.

Is Pippen a HOF? YES OR NO?

People did criticized his signing in Miami but not for reasons you're criticizing it.

And outside of you and Jefe, the others moved on....They realize that it's been 3 years now and its time to move on.

 

[trojanfan12]

Jordan made guys around him (Pippen) better. LeBron did not. Case and point.

Crying? Look around you. LeBron is going to have people crticizing his signing in Miami until the day he retires. That's just how it's going to be.

I suppose it depends on what one means by "made the other player better"!! If you mean made them better by "taking them under their wing" and showing them how to be a better player, then I'd say very, very few superstar players have ever made another player better.

However, if you mean made another player better by taking defensive attention away from them resulting in better shot opportunities, then you can say that MOST superstar players make those around them better.

 

[shitsho]

I suppose it depends on what one means by "made the other player better"!! If you mean made them better by "taking them under their wing" and showing them how to be a better player, then I'd say very, very few superstar players have ever made another player better.

MJ said it himself. Jordan actually corrects Ahmad Rashad in an interview “not just pushed Scottie Pippen. Scottie Pippen pushed me."

That tells me they made each other better. Clowns that say Pippen was the only one to benefit from the relationship are just that...clowns.

 

[shitsho]

Again, you can't name ONE player that was better off for playing with LeBron James.

Mo Williams for sure. His best years were with Cleveland. Healthier too.

 

[shitsho]

...And my point is, LeBron's fans like to punish Jordan for trying to bring the most out of his teammates (Pippen and others).

How is saying Jordan had better thank his lucky stars he had Pippen punishing him? Its the truth. Doesn't at all take away from what he accomplished. Jordan is the GOAT and I dont believe anyone can catch him. I also think Lebron has a chance to be the 2nd best when its all said and done.

 

[True Lakers Fan]

Is Pippen a HOF? YES OR NO?

People did criticized his signing in Miami but not for reasons you're criticizing it.

And outside of you and Jefe, the others moved on....They realize that it's been 3 years now and its time to move on.

Hell yes Pippen is a hall of famer some day - No question about it in my opinion

 

[Hornsstampede2.0]

Duncan won in 2003 as a 1 star team.

They had a rookie Manu Ginobili who wasn't much more than a very raw limited role player.
Tony Parker could not beat out the immortal Speedy Claxton for the full time PG gig.
David Robinson was essentially done.

Manu and TP eventually grew into allstars and D-rob was once great, but in 2003 they were not even close.

That Spurs teams was the closest thing to a one-man team since Hakeem in 1994,95.