Why do fans of fast paced offenses whine when defenses...

[WhiteMamba]

 

[4down20]

Did people bitch about the wishbone when it camoe about? Serious question, because I dont know....

Been over this before, the no huddle offense is not a formation or along the same lines as a formation. It can be run on any formation etc.

It's a bad analogy.

The best argument would be - is it ok in the 2 minute drill. And while I want to see some rules added, I want them to not touch actual hurry up modes like the 2 minute drill.

 

[BamaTee1]

Anchoring the putter to your body was legal for around 20 years but they finally realized it wasn't real golf! These offenses are not real football. That's what arena football is for!

For the record I think Alabama has benefited from them. With Bama's defense and offense combination they will wear out a hurry up offense's defense. Now I know everyone points to the A&M game as the ONE example of why Alabama doesn't like those offense but I promise they love it!

 

[BamaTee1]

In fact you will see Alabama run it. Saban's not stupid. If they're not going to do anything about it, Alabama will keep the same style ball, but won't let the other teams substitute either.

 

[WhiteMamba]

Been over this before, the no huddle offense is not a formation or along the same lines as a formation. It can be run on any formation etc.

It's a bad analogy.

The best argument would be - is it ok in the 2 minute drill. And while I want to see some rules added, I want them to not touch actual hurry up modes like the 2 minute drill.

Who was making an analogy between warp speed and wishbone?

I made a point the zone read is primarily runs between the tackles asking if the same bitch fest insued when the first few teams ran the wishbone

 

[WhiteMamba]

In fact you will see Alabama run it. Saban's not stupid. If they're not going to do anything about it, Alabama will keep the same style ball, but won't let the other teams substitute either.

OOOOO K.

So what are you bitching about then?

 

[WhiteMamba]

If you are running the ball between the tackles how does it at all matter?

Dont like it? Stop it.

And if you mean a good bit by 3rd in the country ( 316 ypg ) behind other "smoke and mirror offenses Air Force and Army, then I would agree with you, that yes, they run the ball a good bit.

Did people bitch about the wishbone when it camoe about? Serious question, because I dont know....

Been over this before, the no huddle offense is not a formation or along the same lines as a formation. It can be run on any formation etc.

It's a bad analogy.

The best argument would be - is it ok in the 2 minute drill. And while I want to see some rules added, I want them to not touch actual hurry up modes like the 2 minute drill.

see. I think you are confused 4d20.

Smoke and mirrors offense was used in the context of zone read...

 

[BamaTee1]

OOOOO K.

So what are you bitching about then?

I don't want to see football go in this direction. I think it's bending the rules significantly and that is why I have no problems with players laying down. To me it's almost to get a point across not whether they should really do it or not. We could go back and forth forever on this but because your team runs it you're in favor of it. Because my team doesn't I'm not for it. But I will also add I think the game of football and what we have come to love and enjoy is not basketball on turf nor should it be.

 

[WhiteMamba]

I don't want to see football go in this direction. I think it's bending the rules significantly and that is why I have no problems with players laying down. To me it's almost to get a point across not whether they should really do it or not. We could go back and forth forever on this but because your team runs it you're in favor of it. Because my team doesn't I'm not for it. But I will also add I think the game of football and what we have come to love and enjoy is not basketball on turf nor should it be.

So did you bitch when teams started running "smoke and mirror" wishbone?

Did your grandaddy pitch the same bitch fest about the forward pass?

 

[BamaTee1]

So did you bitch when teams started running "smoke and mirror" wishbone?

Did your grandaddy pitch the same bitch fest about the forward pass?

Again, but slower this time. I have no problem with what Oregon runs. I make fun of them with my triple reverse comments but it's the hurry up part I can not stand. I think trying to run a play every 8 to 10 seconds is chicken shit! That's all. Anyone can do it and you are seeing more and more teams do it because it does keep the defense on their toes without substituting. Like I mentioned, you will see Alabama do it as well. It would be stupid to not do it. I think the premise behind it takes away from the game itself but as long as it's legal do it. I will also hate watching Alabama do it but I realize why.

 

[BamaTee1]

So did you bitch when teams started running "smoke and mirror" wishbone?

Did your grandaddy pitch the same bitch fest about the forward pass?

Pretty sure 420 stated the differences in what you're saying and running up to the line just so the defense can't substitute and many times just sitting there and look at those stupid signs before running the play. However, you did prevent part of the game from occurring. If that's the intent?

 

[BamaTee1]

!

When Auburn went to that hurry up offense so many people around here, including Auburn fans hated watching them, hurry up to the line all turn their heads to the sideline get the call and run the play. They were very successful but I believe a player named Cam Newton had lots to do with that. They will be doing it again this year and I'll be laughing again and telling all their fans their team runs a pussy offense! It's all over talk radio here.

Mamba, even though we have butted heads lately I would love to invite you to an Alabama game. I live less than 45 minutes from the stadium. You would have a blast. I know deep down you have a profound respect for Alabama.

 

[WhiteMamba]

When Auburn went to that hurry up offense so many people around here, including Auburn fans hated watching them, hurry up to the line all turn their heads to the sideline get the call and run the play. They were very successful but I believe a player named Cam Newton had lots to do with that. They will be doing it again this year and I'll be laughing again and telling all their fans their team runs a pussy offense! It's all over talk radio here.

Mamba, even though we have butted heads lately I would love to invite you to an Alabama game. I live less than 45 minutes from the stadium. You would have a blast. I know deep down you have a profound respect for Alabama.

Of course I love Alabama. Grew up with them. Its part of my families sport history.

But the lack of respect for a team being innovative because they cant compete with the big dogs palying their style comes across as cowardess. My Grandpa was a huge Bama fan, and I know he wouldnt even give the time of day to lose a drop of sweat over teams trying something different to be competitive.

 

[BamaTee1]

Of course I love Alabama. Grew up with them. Its part of my families sport history.

But the lack of respect for a team being innovative because they cant compete with the big dogs palying their style comes across as cowardess. My Grandpa was a huge Bama fan, and I know he wouldnt even give the time of day to lose a drop of sweat over teams trying something different to be competitive.

Do you really think Oregon has to do this to be competitive? Again, no problem with the offense they run and they run the zone read great. Unbelievable speed but to hurry to the line every time to keep the defense from substituting and running situation schemes is what I have a problem with. It's like playing before the other team is ready and I think there is something wrong with that.

I also HATE the 3 point line in basketball. It changed the game and made it where any team can beat another just off the ability to do one thing. I've seen teams win with players going unconscious and hitting everything with good defense or not. You make 7 of 10 3 pointers is like shooting over 100 percent 2 pointers. Your team can play fantastic in all areas of the game and lose to a team that goes unconscious from the 3 point line. Ridiculous! Why don't they give 3 points for rebounds? Now you're giving extra emphasis on a different aspect of the game. Still only one aspect but over-weighted!

I already used the long putter in golf as a crutch, as an example, and not what the game was meant. However, it was legal for many years. Doesn't make it right.

It should be equally as fair for both offenses and defenses and I don't think it is. To call this innovative is a stretch. Not like it has has anything to do with x's and o's. Not sure you can compare it to being old fashioned and against the forward pass. Maybe a little extreme there.

 

[4down20]

see. I think you are confused 4d20.

Smoke and mirrors offense was used in the context of zone read...

Thought were talking about no huddle offenses?

 

[WhiteMamba]

Do you really think Oregon has to do this to be competitive?

Absolutley 100% yes. In the BCS era they only truly sniffed a top 5 season twice before Kelly. 01 when they finished #2. And before the bowl game in 05 they came in at #5.

When Kelly came to Oregon and instilled the offense in 07, they were on their way to a NATTY berth and the schools 1st ever Heisman in Dixon before his injury.

In 08 Holiday win.
In 09 Rose bowl appearance (1st since 1994)
In 10 NATTY appearance (1st ever)
In 11 Rose Bowl victory (1st since 1917)
In 12 another 12 win season and BCS victory.

all due to Chip Kelly bringing the warp speed zone read offense.

 

[WhiteMamba]

Thought were talking about no huddle offenses?

we were. Then it switched to running schemes. i.e. smoke and mirrors.

 

[trojanfan12]

Who's whining? I'm flat out saying that if offenses are going to run at warped speed, which there is nothing wrong with, I think defense should lay down. The rules do not allow defenses to substitute and I'm talking in terms of getting different personnel in more than resting players. If the rules somehow addressed this issue everything would be fine. So to me, if people are complaining about players laying down than their the ones whining! I've read all about how this is cheating. My gosh people, get a grip to what is being taught to the players to get by with and gain an upper hand! This is mild!

As has been pointed out, the defense can substitute any time the offense does. And faking injury is a pussy way to deal with it!! If my team ever resorted to that I'd be embarrassed and pissed!!

As for, if the rules addressed this issue, the rules do address the issue. Hurry up offenses are allowed by the rules and faking an injury is not.

 

[BamaTee1]

I never once said smoke and mirrors and running schemes? Smoke and mirrors with tricking the game up with running to the line and standing there or running a quick play This is nothing but about warp speed offenses to me. Not just playing on substance (plays) but having to add the 2 minute offense for 60 minutes. Didn't know Nolan Richardson coached football?

 

[trojanfan12]

In fact you will see Alabama run it. Saban's not stupid. If they're not going to do anything about it, Alabama will keep the same style ball, but won't let the other teams substitute either.

That's when 'Bama fans will start calling it "real football"!!