Why Canada can't win the Stanley Cup

[KennyBanyeah]

Montreal doesn't riot very often - off the top of my head, I can only remember two:

When Rocket Richard was suspended and back in 92 for the Guns n Roses/Metallica/Faith No More tour

Also in 2008 when they won the first round against Boston in seven games, I believe.

They were the #1 seed that year too.

 

[KennyBanyeah]

Yup... 2008. First round riots.

Some real smart cookies in this bunch.

 

[Nasty_Magician]

Writer could've saved everyone a bunch of time if he simply wrote "because they're a bunch of hosers".

 

[dash]

Writer could've saved everyone a bunch of time if he simply wrote "because they're a bunch of hosers".

Take off, eh?

 

[BlueWolfZero]

It's not as if there haven't been chances....Considering there are only 7 teams from here in a 30 team league with a clealry biased American commissioner.

2003. Ottawa would have been Cup champions if not for Wade Redden
2004. Gelinas clearly scored the gwg in Game 6 that should have won it
2006. Roloson doesn't get hurt in Game 1, the Oilers win
2007. Ottawa gets there but are overmatched by the Ducks
2010. Thomas basically steals the Cup from the Canucks

As fr the other teams, as Dash said just a whole ton of mis management and incompetence have lead to not having many power house teams in this country.

 

[juliansteed]

I think that paragraph (among other similar ones) was directed squarely at Toronto especially.

Probably, but I've always considered that theory to be a myth. The most profitable games of the season are the playoffs (lower costs and higher ticket prices). Why in the world would any team not care about being competitive simply because they sell out all their regular season games and sell some merchandise win or lose when there is so much more money to be had during the playoffs?

 

[BOSSMANPC]

Probably, but I've always considered that theory to be a myth. The most profitable games of the season are the playoffs (lower costs and higher ticket prices). Why in the world would any team not care about being competitive simply because they sell out all their regular season games and sell some merchandise win or lose when there is so much more money to be had during the playoffs?

This, There is a helluva lot of incentives for NHL teams to make the playoffs like julian said the cost are much lower and I can't remember the numbers but for every single home playoff game the profits are in the millions.

 

[Nasty_Magician]

This, There is a helluva lot of incentives for NHL teams to make the playoffs like julian said the cost are much lower and I can't remember the numbers but for every single home playoff game the profits are in the millions.

It arguably saved the Devils franchise. The Devils' owner (Vanderbeek) was in some serious financial trouble last year and the playoffs made him something like $30 million. I'd imagine you can almost double that for certain Canadian teams.

 

[KennyBanyeah]

Probably, but I've always considered that theory to be a myth. The most profitable games of the season are the playoffs (lower costs and higher ticket prices). Why in the world would any team not care about being competitive simply because they sell out all their regular season games and sell some merchandise win or lose when there is so much more money to be had during the playoffs?

Sure they make MORE in the playoffs but there is no necessity to compete when you're already pulling it in hand over fist. In some markets you contend or you die (economically speaking). That is not the case in Toronto.

That being said even mediocre businesses try to squeeze as much cash as they can out of a situation. I think it's clear that the last decade has seen incompetent people placed on pretty much every rung of the Maple Leaf corporate ladder.

 

[DevilishWon]

It is the curse of the stick of 93
It is a fact , facts are things I believe with or without proof, that the Canadiens measured the Kings sticks prior to the game. Sure it helped Habs that year but the curse was inacted. And because us Californians cant tell the difference between Canadien and Canadian, all of them must suffer. I thought winning the cup would lift the curse but not totally it seems.

I think you got it!

 

[Darkstone42]

Probably, but I've always considered that theory to be a myth. The most profitable games of the season are the playoffs (lower costs and higher ticket prices). Why in the world would any team not care about being competitive simply because they sell out all their regular season games and sell some merchandise win or lose when there is so much more money to be had during the playoffs?

This, There is a helluva lot of incentives for NHL teams to make the playoffs like julian said the cost are much lower and I can't remember the numbers but for every single home playoff game the profits are in the millions.

There are investments other than player salaries involved in getting to the playoffs, the most important of which is probably scouting and development. The key to the teams at the top? They identify talent well in amateur leagues, in other teams' minor league systems, and on other teams' NHL rosters. In the Cap era, you spend your extra money on more and better scouts, better minor league coaches/development teams, better trainers, etc. Why bother spending that money when you don't need to to turn a massive profit when the playoffs aren't necessarily a guarantee?

 

[forty_three]

There are investments other than player salaries involved in getting to the playoffs, the most important of which is probably scouting and development. The key to the teams at the top? They identify talent well in amateur leagues, in other teams' minor league systems, and on other teams' NHL rosters. In the Cap era, you spend your extra money on more and better scouts, better minor league coaches/development teams, better trainers, etc. Why bother spending that money when you don't need to to turn a massive profit when the playoffs aren't necessarily a guarantee?

This is essentially the story of the Detroit Red Wings. And Ottawa is really doing this well now.

Glad the Jackets are not going to be in that division.

 

[DevilishWon]

It's not as if there haven't been chances....Considering there are only 7 teams from here in a 30 team league with a clealry biased American commissioner.

2003. Ottawa would have been Cup champions if not for Wade Redden
2004. Gelinas clearly scored the gwg in Game 6 that should have won it
2006. Roloson doesn't get hurt in Game 1, the Oilers win
2007. Ottawa gets there but are overmatched by the Ducks
2010. Thomas basically steals the Cup from the Canucks

As fr the other teams, as Dash said just a whole ton of mis management and incompetence have lead to not having many power house teams in this country.

Those are some pretty good excuses. I was just gonna say the teams in Canada have sucked, except for Vancouver who lost because they are led by soft euros

 

[BlueWolfZero]

Those are some pretty good excuses. I was just gonna say the teams in Canada have sucked, except for Vancouver who lost because they are led by soft euros

You mean like blaming Bernier for you guys losing the Cup last year, those excuses?

 

[Darkstone42]

This is essentially the story of the Detroit Red Wings. And Ottawa is really doing this well now.

Glad the Jackets are not going to be in that division.

With the Wings, I'm not sure if it's great drafting or great development or both. That's how good they are.

 

[forty_three]

With the Wings, I'm not sure if it's great drafting or great development or both. That's how good they are.

I'm not looking for the best players, Craig. I'm looking for the right ones.
- Herb Brooks.

 

[DevilishWon]

You mean like blaming Bernier for you guys losing the Cup last year, those excuses?

I made excuses? Dont think so, YOU on the other hand....

 

[juliansteed]

There are investments other than player salaries involved in getting to the playoffs, the most important of which is probably scouting and development. The key to the teams at the top? They identify talent well in amateur leagues, in other teams' minor league systems, and on other teams' NHL rosters. In the Cap era, you spend your extra money on more and better scouts, better minor league coaches/development teams, better trainers, etc. Why bother spending that money when you don't need to to turn a massive profit when the playoffs aren't necessarily a guarantee?

Good points but it's about risk/reward. If it's guarantees you're looking for then you don't go into business in the first place. Yeah yeah what could be more of a guarantee than owning the Maple Leafs who turn a profit every year? Well along with that guaranteed year to year profit comes a massive initial investment that isn't going to be recovered in just a few years. Unless you turn around and sell the team and even then you have to make sure you don't fuck things up during your short time.

With all other things being equal, a team in the east can now project to make the playoffs exactly 50% of the time, the 2nd round 25% of the time etc. If you look at the long-term profit projections based on these figures, the extra administrative costs that could help get them there (or better since they can afford to spend more than most in these areas) would be minimal in comparison to the extra profit. (That being said, I doubt the Leafs could get away with charging what they did for playoff tickets if they were to make the playoffs more than their fair share as opposed to the 1st time in 9 years. But they could still charge quite a pretty nice ransom, most of which would be gravy on top of whatever they made during the regular season.) Of course all things are rarely equal but the rich teams have the opportunity to give themselves a competitive advantage in the areas in which you spoke of, just as they use to with player salaries.

I doubt Brian Burke came cheap. His replacement would have been even more costly if you factor in they are still paying Burke's salary. The Leafs often had 1 of the highest payrolls in the pre-cap era. Once the salary cap was introduced it took them 8 seasons to make the playoffs. The Leafs are trying to win and willing to spend what they need to get there. They aren't cutting financial corners just because they are comfortable selling out their regular season home games. It's not like their profits are maxed out. Even besides the playoff revenue is the opportunity to raise regular season ticket prices. Why they don't charge more already is beyond me but they obviously value their lengthy waiting list or they would already charge more and the list wouldn't be so long. (Adds value to the franchise, maintains the sense of urgency for the fans, increases negotating power with advertisers etc.) It is within their current ideal range. If they can win and create more interest they can grow that waiting list beyond the ideal range and increase ticket prices to bring it back to where they want to be.

Then there are TV rights. Although they no doubt make a ton from the status quo, there's always room to make more if they win. I (sadly) know as well as anyone that the Leafs are very popular outside of Toronto. They could be even more popular in "neutral" parts of Canada like where I live if they did more in the playoffs, not to mention the extra revenue per game.

So yeah there are no guarantees but I really think there's still plenty of financial incentive to spend a few extra dollars (and spend all dollars intelligently) than what is required to simply sellout 41 regular season home games

 

[juliansteed]

Okay most of you won't appreciate this the way I did but I got a good chuckle out of the list of prospective cities for NHL relocation/expansion. Particularly the 4th on the list.

These people obviously have no idea what they are talking about. The combined population of the 2 cities & surrounding areas is probably about half of that (divided fairly evenly between the 2). But that's not even the best part. The 2 cities are an hour and a half away from each other with pretty much nothing in between. Neither city would support a team awarded to the other. Once in a lifetime concerts or other events? Sure they'd travel to see it without any type of jealousy that it wasn't in their own city. But an NHL team? I can't even finish this thought it is so ridiculous so I need to change the context to CFL which has been discussed and is at least somewhat realistic. Neither city would support a franchise awarded to the other even if they try to brand themselves as a provincial team. They wouldn't exactly boycott it but they wouldn't go out of their way and feel as though it is "their team" either. They'd check it out now and then but there'd be very few STH's from the opposite city and there would no doubt be some jealousy that would cause a few to boycott.

 

[DaBoltsNIsles]

There are investments other than player salaries involved in getting to the playoffs, the most important of which is probably scouting and development. The key to the teams at the top? They identify talent well in amateur leagues, in other teams' minor league systems, and on other teams' NHL rosters. In the Cap era, you spend your extra money on more and better scouts, better minor league coaches/development teams, better trainers, etc. Why bother spending that money when you don't need to to turn a massive profit when the playoffs aren't necessarily a guarantee?

Then feel free to explain how the Islanders do it. Moulson, Parenteau & Colin McDonald were UFA signings nobody wanted. Grabner, Nabokov, Hickey & Strait were waiver pickups. They signed Mark Streit to a 5 year deal & allowed him to play defense when the other teams that were interested in him wanted him to be a forward. Ken Morrow & company do a great job of pro scouting that's for sure. The Islanders are probably near the lowest in terms of amount of scouts in the entire league. Word was they only had like 1 or 2 scouts at the NHL combine last year.